problems escalating in school.....please help

[steph66]

UPDATED!!Post 7...

DD has been acting out in school lately and I'm at a loss as to how to deal with this. She is 4.5 yrs old and in pre-k. I guess I can see where shes coming from a bit because she does have a new 3 month old little sister and she is really vying for attention even though i do my best to give her my undivided attention when I can. she's always has a "smart" mouth (she's her mother's daughter!) and she is very very spirited and intense. Lately she has had increasing behaviors at school with not listening or following directions, shes thrown things at other students, etc. Today she spit on another student b/c he wouldn't move out of her "spot". I'm at a loss as how to deal with this. I have talked and talked until I am blue in the face, about making better choices and what she could have done differently etc. We have started consequences such as not being able to go to the YMCA after school with DP which she really enjoys, not getting a "tatoo", not getting any kind of "treats" or desert, no cartoons. None of this seems to be working. We do time-outs on her bed when she gets out of control at home.  I will be calling her teacher and discussing the option of maybe having her sit out at recess for serious offenses. DP is livid that she actually spit on another student, he wants to "crack down" and not let her "get away" with stuff. (we're not always on the same page when it comes to discipline :( ) He says we're too lenient with her and thats why she never "learns". That all that $h!t that I read in books is BS and does not work. His recommendation is that if she gets in trouble at school, then the days over for her and she will have to spend the rest of the day in time-out, only coming out out to use the RR, eat and take a bath. He said his parents did this with him and it only took a week of doing this for him to learn. we argued b/c shes freaking FOUR! I believe that things will get better soon as she gets older and fully adjusts to the baby being here. he said hes let me do things my way for 4 yrs and this is where it got us, now its his turn to do what "works". FTR his parents were total authoritarians and IMO a bit of bullys, and they have definitely influenced DP's parenting style because this worked for him and his siblings, they were "good".

So what does everyone else do? I'd love some ideas to present to dp.  Thanks so much!

Edited by steph66 - 5/20/11 at 11:40pm

[phathui5]

I think the first thing I would do is set up a meeting with the teacher and get her advice.

Is the issue just at school or is she acting out at home?

[bluebackpacks]

Think of a handful of privileges that she really enjoys.  They can be outings, food treats, special television programs, etc.  At the beginning of each day, determine what 'treat' she would most like to earn (and one that you can accommodate).  Explain to her your expectations for her behavior at school... very clearly.  Challenge her to meet your expectations.  If she does, then she earns her 'treat' that day.  As she is only 4, this will take a lot of discussion and many reminders.  Get her jazzed up to prove she's a big girl and can earn the things that she desires.  As she gets older, you may give her the opportunity to earn a bigger treat by going an entire week without any major meltdowns.  This isn't so different from an adult working extra hours to earn a raise or promotion.  Of course, if you are uncomfortable with the idea of earning rewards, please feel free to ignore my post.  Each child is different, and there is no 'magic bullet' that works for every family.

[steph66]

thanks so much for the suggestions! she is acting out at home too :( I was thinking along the same lines of rewards and am not against them at all. I was actually thinking a reward chart with a big weekly reward but am now rethinking a daily reward, just not sure what, we dont go out everyday and are a one car family. DP doesnt like this idea right now, i aam about to go over and try to talk things out with him (he's at work). For now DD1 is not able to watch cartoons for the whole weekend and is to play with toys in her room only because of her behavior in school yesterday and because she kicked/hit me, tried to spit on me, kicked her bed/walls/doors, screamed/screeched and told me she hated me etc

Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences with rewards or a reward chart?

[LynnS6]

A child who is acting out because she is jealous (and 4) does not need to be separated from her family more. She needs much more connection.

My initial reaction to your dp's suggestions is that they are unnecessarily harsh and will lead to more acting out, not less. Yes, she needs to have consequences when she acts inappropriately, but they need to be short term, directly related to what she did wrong, and intended to teach her something or give her time to calm down. 4 year olds are still working on cause-effect, and impulse control. Punishing a 4 year old for an entire weekend is way over the top, IMO. A whole week's worth? No.

I think it might be helpful to back up and think about what you want to achieve here. How can you help your daughter learn self control? How can you help her feel more connected? How can you reduce the anger that she's feeling? She's very young, she's going to rely on you for a number of years yet to help regulate her emotions. This is normal.

I also think you need to question the presumption that punishment = discipline that your dp seems to have. Discipline is much more effective if it's viewed as teaching. What does banning your dd to her room teach her? y take is: It teaches her that mom and dad don't love her, or they only love her when she's well behaved. She's not allowed to have strong emotions and be loved. Is that what you want her to learn?

In our house, if dd hit us, she was immediately sent to her room to cool down. There wasn't a time limit set on it, but she had to be not screaming and lashing out before she came out. We then asked her to make amends to the person that was hurt -- give them a hug, say sorry, do something nice for them. She could choose what she did, but she did have to make amends. (And no, it wasn't always sincere, but you know, sometimes you need to learn the action.) And then it was done. We would talk at another time about things she could do differently. We would play act some of the things that made her mad with her stuffed animals.

Dd is 6 1/2 now. She hasn't hit anyone is 6 months or more. She didn't hit people often, but she would lash out occasionally. She's still working on her tone of voice (she tends to be very vocal and can sound bossy/whiny), but again, it's not a deliberate "I'm sassing you", it's a loss of control. She's got very powerful emotions. She's very sensitive and feels things deeply. She has the potential to be a powerful advocate for some cause near and dear to her heart when she gets older. What she needs to learn now is to see other people's perspectives and to channel her powerful feelings into appropriate behaviors. She still screams at times. She's learning to take those screaming fits to her room by herself. (In fact, I took a break from this post and she stomped off to my room because she was mad at her brother. This is huge progress.) We did not see this progress by shunning her. We saw it by separating her until we could be safe, and the reconnecting.

Things that happen at school are dealt with at school for the most part. If the school has disciplined my child, then they're done. I don't need to pile it on at home. We might talk about it and brainstorm other solutions, but we won't punish for something that's over and done with. I don't know what I'd do for a really big issue at school (deliberate bullying, stealing, major offense of some sort), but I suspect it would be mostly to back up what the school is doing.

If you're going to do a rewards chart, then I think you need to do two things:

1. There needs to be a specific behavior that she can do to earn rewards. "Be nice" is too vague. "Don't spit on people" is a fine goal, but it doesn't give her anything to do when she's mad. What do you want her to do when she's mad? In our house, stomping off to your room and slamming your door is OK. Not great, but OK. (And since mom does it, I really can't complain.)

2. The rewards need to be very easy to achieve in the beginning (like a reward in the AM and the PM) and slowly build up to something bigger. So, a small reward in the AM, then another small one in the PM. If she gets 6 rewards, she gets to do something special with mom or dad (bake cookies, take a walk to see the christmas lights... I wouldn't have this be a money thing -- what she needs is more time and more connection). Then the next interval is 8 rewards, then 10, etc. When she goes two weeks with the new behavior under control, then you can work on something else.

3. Work on one or two things at a time. I made the mistake with dd this fall of trying to work on three things at once. I thought they were 'one' (not whining), but really, they were three: Not whining during chores, not whining during homework, and not whining during piano practice. When I posted about my failure with using a reward chart, people pointed out to me that it was too many goals, and I had too high a standard for getting a reward (only one whining episode a week). After 2 days dd took the chart and wrote "I HATE CHORES!" across the top and stopped caring about the reward.

In your case, I would work on the spitting and hitting. These are antisocial behaviors that will get her into trouble in a lot of places. I'd let the kicking the door and screaming go and work on that later. But you need to come up with something for her to do in place of these behaviors.

I would recommend that you read:

Understanding Tears and Tantrums

The Secret of Parenting (this is on the more 'strict' end of GD, so it's a place to start.

Playful Parenting -- really really good ways to connect with kids. I find that when I spend 30 minutes a day connecting with my kids and playing with them following their lead, the behavior issues plummet dramatically. They still pop up when they're hungry or tired, but they're manageable. When I get busy and stressed and can't do this, the behavior goes downhill. There's more bickering, more complaints and whining and more behavior that gets on my nerves.

Finally, I would recommend that you ask several questions to your partner:

1. What do you want her to learn? (And he can't say 'not to spit' -- it's got to be phrased as something she should do)

2. How is your solution going to teach her that?

3. What are acceptable ways for her to express anger and frustration?

4. How can we teach her that?

[pianojazzgirl]

I'm totally with Lynn on this!  Great suggestions and thoughts!

[steph66]

I've been meaning to update everyone on this issue, just been so busy! Well I'm happy to say that things have really evened out and gotten better around here (aahh shouldn't have said that! lol) Dp and I are still rarely on the same page when it comes to parenting but he has calmed down and for the most part is more realistic. I think a lot of this had to do with dd getting older and getting used to having her little sister around. We never did the rewards chart but we did start giving her small rewards that would change depending on her interests that week. Small ones for bringing home a "stamp" that day for school and bigger ones for getting X amount of stamps in a row. Her favorite one right now is getting to go to the children's museum for 5 stamps in a row.  It really seemed to work well with her. We also do different things that she enjoys doing with me such as finger painting, baking etc. We have really come a long way, sure we have our ups and downs every few weeks but its gotten so much better.  We also moved her bedtime up a half hour and she seemed to benefit from this as well. Thanks so much for everyones suggestions/comments, I really appreciated them.