The Santa Claus unit

[Wild Lupine]

We don't do Santa Claus in our house. We talk to the kids about him, but as a make-believe character in a story. Christmas is also a secular holiday for us (we're not Christian) where we give one another small gifts and get together with family, but it's not a big deal.

DD is in her first year of preschool and they are doing a short unit called Holidays and Santa's Workshop. I'm totally fine about a unit on all the different holidays that happen at this time of year, but I think the Santa part goes a little too far. This is a public preschool, so I'm surprised they are giving such attention to one particular tradition. Maybe it's a way to focus on what's current in many student's lives without bringing religion in - though the Santa mythology is so strong that it seems like a mini religion at times.

At first I was worried that DD would ruin the story for those kids who do believe in Santa, but the exact opposite has happened. She now insists Santa is real and has developed an elaborate mythology around how Santa can be in different stores at the same time. I know she's going to hear about Santa from her friends and classmates, but I was hoping her teachers would stay neutral on the topic.

I hate to be the grinch and ask them to stop talking to my kid about Santa, and I know I can't control what my child believes; it's not like Santa isn't everywhere at this time of year. But it is awkward that she now places huge importance on something that we don't do in our family.

Is this normal for preschool? If you don't do Santa, would you say something, or let it slide? I don't have any other issues with the school; she loves it there and I think they do wonderful things with the kids.

[MusicianDad]

We do Santa, and I would still complain. There shouldn't be that much focus on one specific holiday or one specific way of celebrating that holiday.

[nanette0269]

Secular here....we love the santa myth.  That being said, why would you think most of the talk is from the teachers/school?  My daughter has come home with some elaborate thoughts about santa and the reindeer, and I know for a fact that her teacher does mostly "seasonal" things, such as snowmen and snowflakes.  As for santa and reindeer, they touch on that as much as they touch on hannukah and the driedel.  

They may have crossed the line, but then again, maybe its just a combination of all the kids talking about what they think about santa on the playground.  Kids talk a lot and some of their stories tend to take on a mythological feeling all by itself, especially if many share their knowledge.

[Wild Lupine]

Originally Posted by nanette0269 

Secular here....we love the santa myth.  That being said, why would you think most of the talk is from the teachers/school? 

I'm sure a lot of it does come from the other kids, but the teachers send home a weekly newsletter announcing the week's units. The latest newsletter said their current unit is 'Holidays and Santa's Workshop,' and included the lyrics of a song they're teaching the kids about Santa.

[whatsnextmom]

Christmas is a secular holiday for us too (it's part of our family culture.) My kids believed in Santa for awhile. We didn't tell them it was true but when they asked we'd just ask back "well, what do YOU believe" and go with that. My kids are 10 and 13 and they still like to play the game. They put out cookies and milk, Santa fills stockings (which get filled no matter what)... obviously, they know it's not true but they like the ritual.

I am surprised that the preschool did anything so blatant as a unit on Santa. Usually, those that don't do a "winter" theme will do a "celebration" unit where they will talk about trying new foods, seeing family you don't normally see, making cards (any type of card they wanted) ect.  I taught preschool for a few years and we never did anything about Christmas and Santa (actually, we didn't do ANY holidays.)  I worked in a state funded preschool where all the kids lived below the poverty level. I wasn't about to try to sell them on a figure showering them with gifts! Secondly, we had all sorts of faiths to contend with. It was best just to stick with snowmen, penguins and "Jingle Bells" lol.

I think you are fine to pull the teacher aside and lightly mention you don't do Santa. It doesn't have to change their plans for the month... they should just not engage her individually about Santa. She's going to hear about it and she may very well decide to believe no matter what you say. She just doesn't need her teachers outright telling her Santa is real. I wouldn't worry about this sticking either. She's really little right now and they do get notions. We aren't Christian but one Christmas when DD was 3 she decided that Jesus was real (the nativity is pretty irresistable.) We told her that she had her own mind and no one can control that. It lasted until Spring when Catholic MIL took her to church and told her the story of Easter. DD just looked at her funny and that was the end of that.

[MsBirdie]

I am surprised.  In my dd's school it was asked that parents speak to their children that Santa is not an appropriate topic to discuss at school because of all the different beliefs.  We celebrate Christmas as a religious holidy and believe in Santa (though try hard to keep him to a minimium).   

These things come up.  Right now DD is learning about the origins of the universe and we are having to speak to her about how our family's beliefs fall in line.  I have definately seen a tilt towards Big Bang and we have had to address that.  Their worksheets say some believe in the creation theory while scientists believe in the big bang theory.  I had to tell  DD that some scientists believe in the creation theory also and here is a list.  I am still going back and forth on if I should say something.  It was just wording on one worksheet. 

I would speak to the teacher about it.  Even if it does not change this year she may get enough feedback to think twice about dong it again next year. 

[GuildJenn]

Our son's school does some stuff around Santa (and in fact Santa comes to the seasonal party), despite it being pretty diverse culturally. The first year it really shocked me. We had been on the fence about Santa and in a way I was sort of relieved we could just go with it - and in a way I was annoyed. As it turns out, we've enjoyed doing Santa. But it could have gone the other way.

My husband asked me if I would have been equally upset if it had been Buddha who had been introduced.  (My husband's Catholic and we're sort of culturally Christian.)  And I thought well, no, that would be cool. And that's kind of when I decided that I'd try to accept what my son's school community brings into our lives...not that I wouldn't challenge something I thought was wrong, or just say "we don't believe that," or whatever.  But for me I'd rather be inclusive than try to put limits on ourselves or others.

I truly believe that in the long term all families have to learn how to navigate external beliefs to their own in a healthy way.  For me personally, "healthy" means being calm and having faith in our values and our ability to push back when necessary (and not, when we don't have to).

[sparklett]

Yes, it seems rather over-the-top to me and I'd probably say something.  What do the Jewish families do during this unit?

Our school is quite secular and they do not celebrate holidays.  We do seasons instead.  The kids still talk about Santa and the kids are all invited to holiday-themed activities that are hosted by the museum where our preschool is located.  But they don't bring those themes into the classroom, and I'm very glad for it.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn 

My husband asked me if I would have been equally upset if it had been Buddha who had been introduced.  (My husband's Catholic and we're sort of culturally Christian.)  And I thought well, no, that would be cool..

Thing is, that'd be cool because few people in this country are Buddhist, there aren't a billion images of the Buddha everywhere in December, and, for most kids, being introduced to the Buddha and the stories surrounding him would be actually educational.

It'd also be cool if they introduced figures from a variety of religions and cultures.

But not cool to only have Santa, and also not cool to only have Santa and some leprechauns and a bunny bringing chocolate treats.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

Originally Posted by GuildJenn 

My husband asked me if I would have been equally upset if it had been Buddha who had been introduced.  (My husband's Catholic and we're sort of culturally Christian.)  And I thought well, no, that would be cool..

Thing is, that'd be cool because few people in this country are Buddhist, there aren't a billion images of the Buddha everywhere in December, and, for most kids, being introduced to the Buddha and the stories surrounding him would be actually educational.

It'd also be cool if they introduced figures from a variety of religions and cultures.

But not cool to only have Santa, and also not cool to only have Santa and some leprechauns and a bunny bringing chocolate treats.

Well yes, that was my thought too.

But my DH's response did make me realize that my objection wasn't in the introduction of religious/mythic/historical people. It was just because I am not fond of Santa and consider him too pervasive.

In fact my son's school introduces a lot of different celebrations, so they do have that going for them.

[Owen'nZoe]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

Originally Posted by GuildJenn 

My husband asked me if I would have been equally upset if it had been Buddha who had been introduced.  (My husband's Catholic and we're sort of culturally Christian.)  And I thought well, no, that would be cool..

Thing is, that'd be cool because few people in this country are Buddhist, there aren't a billion images of the Buddha everywhere in December, and, for most kids, being introduced to the Buddha and the stories surrounding him would be actually educational.

It'd also be cool if they introduced figures from a variety of religions and cultures.

But not cool to only have Santa, and also not cool to only have Santa and some leprechauns and a bunny bringing chocolate treats.

I get what you are saying, but I'm not sure I agree. In some ways, I think it is just as important for school to bring up the pervasive symbols of faith and/or culture, to give your children an opportunity to discuss them with people who believe in them.

We are an agnostic/atheist family (I self-identify as agnostic, DH as atheist). We live in a small, rather homogenous, Christian community. The exception to this would be a small Hmong community and, well, us - LOL! In public school this year, my son has been learning not only about the secular elements of Christmas, but also about the religious scripture behind Christian celebrations of Christmas. At first I was shocked freaked out just a little bit.  Then I saw my son's obvious discomfort with the subject, and I realized just what an incredible learning opportunity this is. He had already experienced an episode of shunning outside of school by Christian friends who found out he does not believe in God. If he chooses to follow the spiritual path my husband and I have, he will always be a non-believer surrounded by a majority of believers. He will be best off if he learns to be comfortable and respectful when touching on religious and spiritual issues that he himself does not hold. What better place to learn this than a safe environment like school? Of course, if I didn't trust his teacher and school to also ensure that my child and the other children with different beliefs would be treated respectuflly as well, I might feel differently.

[LessTraveledBy]

I have to say that I don't see the big deal (but I am not even in the US). At least here people consider Santa a fictional character and I think the Christians have a bigger problem with him than the non-believers (for lack of a better word). I have never understood why kids are lied to about this matter. Our daughter enjoys Santa songs and such, but only in the same sense that she likes Curious George and Pippi Longstocking. We like to pretent we are all kinds of people and animals, so we can just as well pretend to do the Santa thing every once in a while. She has never thought he was real, though (well, she knows about St. Nicholas, but the current Santa I don't find religious). She actually finds it weird that some of her friends think he is real and that their parents lie to them about it. She tries hard not to tell them, as she knows they might feel bad.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Owen'nZoe 

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

Originally Posted by GuildJenn 

My husband asked me if I would have been equally upset if it had been Buddha who had been introduced.  (My husband's Catholic and we're sort of culturally Christian.)  And I thought well, no, that would be cool..

Thing is, that'd be cool because few people in this country are Buddhist, there aren't a billion images of the Buddha everywhere in December, and, for most kids, being introduced to the Buddha and the stories surrounding him would be actually educational.

It'd also be cool if they introduced figures from a variety of religions and cultures.

But not cool to only have Santa, and also not cool to only have Santa and some leprechauns and a bunny bringing chocolate treats.

I get what you are saying, but I'm not sure I agree. In some ways, I think it is just as important for school to bring up the pervasive symbols of faith and/or culture, to give your children an opportunity to discuss them with people who believe in them.

We are an agnostic/atheist family (I self-identify as agnostic, DH as atheist). We live in a small, rather homogenous, Christian community. The exception to this would be a small Hmong community and, well, us - LOL! In public school this year, my son has been learning not only about the secular elements of Christmas, but also about the religious scripture behind Christian celebrations of Christmas. At first I was shocked freaked out just a little bit.  Then I saw my son's obvious discomfort with the subject, and I realized just what an incredible learning opportunity this is. He had already experienced an episode of shunning outside of school by Christian friends who found out he does not believe in God. If he chooses to follow the spiritual path my husband and I have, he will always be a non-believer surrounded by a majority of believers. He will be best off if he learns to be comfortable and respectful when touching on religious and spiritual issues that he himself does not hold. What better place to learn this than a safe environment like school? Of course, if I didn't trust his teacher and school to also ensure that my child and the other children with different beliefs would be treated respectuflly as well, I might feel differently.

Do they also talk about the fact that not all people believe in the tenets of that particular branch of Christianity? And in particular do they discuss the beliefs of the Hmong? If they don't do that at a minimum then the school is a religious school and should have to register as such and lose any public funding that religious schools do not qualify for.

And I find it surprising that the families who ARE a part of the majority religion in your area don't have a problem. The religious education in religious schools is generally handled by people with training in the particular religion--often someone with training and experience as a religious leader (e.g. a priest teaching religion in a Catholic school).

I'm very glad that it works for your ds to learn to stand up for his beliefs in that environment. For many kids it would be like trying to learn to swim by being dumped into the Amazon.

[Owen'nZoe]

Do they also talk about the fact that not all people believe in the tenets of that particular branch of Christianity? And in particular do they discuss the beliefs of the Hmong? If they don't do that at a minimum then the school is a religious school and should have to register as such and lose any public funding that religious schools do not qualify for.

And I find it surprising that the families who ARE a part of the majority religion in your area don't have a problem. The religious education in religious schools is generally handled by people with training in the particular religion--often someone with training and experience as a religious leader (e.g. a priest teaching religion in a Catholic school).

I'm very glad that it works for your ds to learn to stand up for his beliefs in that environment. For many kids it would be like trying to learn to swim by being dumped into the Amazon.

You know, I believe they do when they celebrate Hmong New Year at school. And they also cover Hanukkah and Kwanzaa and Ramadan. I'm very comfortable with the level of exposure my child is getting, and will leave it up to other parents to complain if they are not. Honestly, in my mind it beats the hell out of my public school experience, which left me thinking religion was a horribly taboo subject which must never be spoken of.
 

[mattemma04]

I am not sure I would say anything to the school,but it will take some talking with your dd(every year) to make her understand some families like to pretend santa delivers presents to their kids.

I can't believe after years of schooling this issue has come up for us.My ds is 8 and in a montessori class with 6-9yo kids. When asked if he believed in santa my ds said no. The classmates then proceeded to tell him that santa would DIE becasue he did not believe in him.Then they told him the teachers(there are 2) also believe in santa,so HE must be wrong. He tries to change the subject,but the kids keep bringing it up. Ds says there is only one other kid(a girl 8 or 9) that does not believe in santa. Personally I blame the teachers for not curbing this discussion and  letting the class rant on my  son.

Yesterday I even had the school headmaster tell me I needed to *talk* to my son,because his anti-santa stance was upsetting some children. Then I get a message on my phone from a parent upset that my son said santa isn't real,and I need to talk to him and call her.It is fine if  parents want to pretend santa is real,but I draw the line when their lying makes their kids put mine down.Kids who believe can not seem to accept that there are some who do not.

Thankfully my ds has just 3 days to get througth before break,and next fall he will be in upper elementary where the kids are finally told(by their parents) that the whole santa thing was a lie.Then he can say " I told you so!"

[pregnant@40]

I'm really surprised that a publically funded school would focus so much on Santa. Is that legal? Definitely not ethical, since it's paid for w/ tax dollars.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Owen'nZoe 

Do they also talk about the fact that not all people believe in the tenets of that particular branch of Christianity? And in particular do they discuss the beliefs of the Hmong? If they don't do that at a minimum then the school is a religious school and should have to register as such and lose any public funding that religious schools do not qualify for.

And I find it surprising that the families who ARE a part of the majority religion in your area don't have a problem. The religious education in religious schools is generally handled by people with training in the particular religion--often someone with training and experience as a religious leader (e.g. a priest teaching religion in a Catholic school).

I'm very glad that it works for your ds to learn to stand up for his beliefs in that environment. For many kids it would be like trying to learn to swim by being dumped into the Amazon.

You know, I believe they do when they celebrate Hmong New Year at school. And they also cover Hanukkah and Kwanzaa and Ramadan.

Well, no problem then.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by mattemma04 

Thankfully my ds has just 3 days to get througth before break,and next fall he will be in upper elementary where the kids are finally told(by their parents) that the whole santa thing was a lie.Then he can say " I told you so!"

These people let their kids believe that not believing in Santa Clause kills him, I don't think I'd make any bets on them stopping lying anytime soon.