Originally Posted by Smokering
Except that Jesus wasn't attempting to set up a church government, and Paul seems to have had a bit of an agenda (since the cultural thinking of the day & location was basically keep the women quiet and under control).
Unless you believe (as I do and I suspect Shami does) that Paul's writings about church government were inspired by God, and thus "set up" by Jesus just as much as things Jesus personally said. I'm not sure that liberal and conservative views of the Bible allow for particularly meaningful interaction - they're poles apart epistemologically.
Remember Galileo? We imprisoned him as a heretic for concluding that the Earth is not the center of the universe, as the Church once believed and taught.
This is a pet peeve of mine. Galileo's teachings were considered heretical because they went against the accepted cosmology of the day, which was based on the writings of the pagan ancient Greeks. It wasn't nearly as theological a controversy as it's popularly portrayed.
If you read the context of the the verse I gave about the weaker vessel, it has nothing to do with physical strength.
I don't see that that's clear. Women are given a set of moral commands to do with issues that, while not exclusive to women, tend to be particularly relevant to women - vanity being one. Men are then given a set of moral commands to do with issues that tend to be particularly relevant to men - one such being the sinful male tendency to physically abuse or dominate women simply because they are (on average) weaker. The very next part of the sentence reminds husbands that women are "heirs with you of the gracious gift of life", so it seems odd that Paul would be talking about some kind of spiritual weakness in women. I'm not sure of the Greek, but the phrase is often translated as "weaker vessel" - if this accurately reflects the Greek it's another point in favour of the "physical weakness" theory, as "vessel" presumably refers to the body, not the soul (which, by the analogy, would be housed within the vessel).
1 Peter 3
1 In 1like manner, awives, be subject to your own husbands, that even if any disobey the 2word, they will be gained without the 2word through the manner of life of their bwives,
2 Seeing with their own eyes your 1pure manner of life 2in 3afear.
3 Let your aadorning not be the outward 1plaiting of hair and putting on of bgold or clothing with garments,
4 But the 1hidden man of the aheart in the incorruptible adornment of a meek and quiet bspirit, which is very ccostly in the sight of God.
5 For in this manner formerly the holy women also, who ahoped in God, adorned themselves, being bsubject to their own husbands,
6 As Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him alord; whose children you have become, if you do good and do not bfear any 1terror.
7 aHusbands, in like manner dwell together with them 1according to knowledge, as with the 2weaker, female 3vessel, 4assigning bhonor to them as also to cfellow heirs of the 5grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.
In that section, Paul is talking about being beautiful on the inside because of Christ indwelling our vessel. Rather than focus on outward beautification, focus on the inner man (Eph). Being strengthen into our inner man will make us the most beautiful, loving wives. At the end of this section on married life, he says that the female is the weaker vessel. I think there is evidence that it is a spiritual weakness. 1 Timothy says that Eve was deceived by the serpent, which makes her a spiritually weak vessel. Adam was no better because he listened to his wife and followed her. Again the headship was over thrown and Eve led her husband rather than the other way around. Look where that got us.
But you could be right that we are the weaker physical vessel, too. In most cases it is true. Men are stronger, except when they get a cold/flu and then they are like little babes. lol