I think these types of threads where people don't want to hear views outside their beliefs should say something like, "support only from biblical literalists." Had I known that she only wanted to hear from fellow King James reading literalists, I would never have answered. I'm Christian and don't take the bible literally and frankly feel completely dismissed and unwelcome by these types of threads.
I feel like there's an implication that everyone's the same kind of Christian and that those of us who belong to mainline denominations and read the bible contextually aren't welcome. I think since MDC has a diverse readership, it would be prudent to address your audience and remember that there are many kinds of Christians.
I asked a very very specific question, and I did welcome all kinds of responses... I simply didnt want this to turn into a debate about the issues about whether or not scripture was divinely inspired. I felt the thread was beginning to spin out of control.
And frankly, Bluegoat, I think you hit the nail on the head. I am quite surprised that there are christians with that understanding of scripture. Like Shami said earlier upthread, we must be coming from very different worldviews which are worlds apart. And thats cool. My bad for not being more specific. Try not to take it personally, I tried to be polite about it. Fwiw, I take the bible literally, but I read it contextually as well, maybe not in the same way you do tho. I bet there are some parts of the bible you take literally. But not one or the other exclusively. I think the bible is SO deep. There are SO many layers to it and I believe it takes a whole lot of study and prayer to even understand it. But for me I dont take the parts I dont understand and assume they arent meant to be there or that the person got it wrong when they wrote it, or try to explain it away in one way or another. Personally, since becoming a christian Ive never felt comfortable with that... and I tried it from time to time. Thats me, tho.
*DISCLAIMER*: When I say that, I mean no offense to you or anyone else who has a different understanding of the bible then I do. Its great fun to agree to disagree.
While I am sure she's interested to know what everyone thinks, getting into a debate about whether that is a plausible way to read Scripture might derail the thread significantly.
I just went back and reread what Bluegoat said and that, quoted up there, is exactly what I was trying to say. I often dont even bother posting here much bc of this sort of misunderstanding. I also feel like I have to wriggle my way thru some of the discussions here, and Im sure none of us want each other to feel this way.
I really am sorry for this little misunderstanding. I did try to politely clear it all up tho. Now, I do belong to other forums that are strictly what some here might consider 'fundamentalist, literalist' protestant type denoms, but honestly, I really do like to discuss these things with other 'kinds' of christians. I just didnt want this to turn into a debate about whats the right way to interpret scripture, ironically, for the very reasons freestylemama stated... I wanted others opinions on the question I asked without turning it into an 'US' and 'THEM' sort of thread, picking apart each others worldview. I think its possible. We are all christians here. ... in this thread I mean.
They are to be interpreted in the context of the historical and social world of the authors of these books. Certainly, the Scripture is inspired, but that does not make it infallible. It is a record of Revelation, not Revelation itself-- a record of how specific people living in specific times and places experienced Revelation. And so we must draw on our own human reason, the Revelation we find in prayerful meditation, and the traditions and wisdom of religious community. Which lead many of us to the conclusion that God does not intend women to be kept in silent submission in the Church.
Lyra, you do bring up some very good points. I think considering we do come from such different understanding of things, it would simply require a lot of openness, openmindedness and a LOT of patience if we were to explore these topics. It becomes difficult with time differences and constraints. I have views on the issues you brought up but it would require a little bit of time to be able to put it into words here. If I have a go just now, Im afraid Ill be misunderstood. Ill try... Ill say a few things, and see where it goes from here...
I believe it was never God's intention for any of us to be slaves. Its never God's intention for a wife to be in an abusive marriage. If I can be frank.. Sh*t happens, bc of sin... and sometimes its God's will for us to take action and sometimes its His will for us to wait things out. Please dont take what I just said about a woman in an abusive marriage and get all up in arms and run with it. I would NEVER council a woman to stay in a situation like that. I would actually seriously try to convince her to leave and do all in my power to to convince her to do so. So, if I can let that issue rest for now Ill move on...
Im personally beginning to understand things where 'Women's roles in Church' are concerned... but struggle to put it into words here. See, I honestly believe that we arent meant to use our human reasoning when interpreting scripture or God. This is becoming more of a firm understanding of mine the more I walk and talk with God, the more Im willing to 'hear Him out'. The verse that goes something like 'My ways are not your ways. As high as the heavens are above the earth are my ways above yours', God speaking to (who, I cant remember specifically) man, I think thats psalms somewhere, really becomes more and more evident to me. Its,uuum, radical, and can be difficult bc I want to work hard at understanding the world around me. I think I have the answers, by my so-called God given reason. The more I decide to take God seriously, the more I realise that my reasoning is so freaking useless. It doesnt always make me feel comfortable, either, its not usually easy to swallow, Im being serious.
Women in leadership roles where she is in an authoritative position over a man, as per a literal/not contextual interpretation of those verses:
I just cant answer that now. My dd wants to get on the computer. I am beginning to understand it tho. I hope to get back on tomorrow morning (my time, Im in england) and say what Ive learned.
Have a great day, evening, whatever gals. Hugs In Christ!!
Edited by genifer - 12/15/10 at 10:56am