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Would like to have VBAC / told I have pelvis "issue" - Page 2

post #21 of 60
Originally Posted by CookAMH View Post

I know the pp meant well in explaining another side, but I hesitate to put any stock in that because it is SO RARE. My m/w hinted at the same thing that SOME women have that issue, but NO ONE can see inside the pelvis during birth to see that it "can't" open.  NO ONE can tell you without an informed exam which isn't really possible, that you can't fit a baby.  There are women who had previous injuries, scoliosis, etc that give context to difficult births and needed c/s, but that is by far the exception.

I have to agree. There is no harm in trying. Good luck!

post #22 of 60

It sounds to me like you don't have a pelvis problem, you had an asynclitic baby.  VASTLY different things.  Babies and pelvises can be like keys and locks.  With some mamas, the pelvis and baby need to be oriented to each other just right to have an easy, quick birth.  Otherwise, sometimes things need more time or some help by a doula or care provider to help the pelvis or baby to shift positions.  As mentioned before, chiropractic can be a huge benefit for positioning issues.  Also, I HIGHLY suggest checking out www.spinningbabies.com.  It discusses Optimal Fetal Positioning and things you can do during pregnancy and labor to help encourage a baby into a good position.  A doula is also a very good idea, and find one that has experience/knowledge about positional issues during labor and how to correct them.  DON'T let anyone break your water without a VERY good reason, since this can make positional issues more difficult to correct without the nice cushion of fluid around the baby's head.  Do what you can do before birth to help yourself have a well-positioned baby and to be in as optimal shape as possible for birth, no matter how it goes.  And know that the fact that you dilated to 9cm is a GOOD thing - your body has done this before and knows what to do next time.  You didn't have a c/s for failure to progress, you had a placental abruption. 


Get thee to www.ican-online.org, contact one of the local ICAN groups (I'm sure there are ones in LA) and ask for referrals to good, VBAC-friendly doctors in that area.  Also, I'd be asking around your hometown as well, because honestly, the fact that your doctor told you that you weren't relaxing and opening like you should at 38 weeks is a red flag to me.  There is nothing your body necessarily should be doing at that point that would indicate one way or another that your pelvis wasn't adequate.  There just isn't.  Even if you weren't dilated or effaced at all, that has absolutely nothing at all to do with the ability of your pelvis to birth a baby.  If my care provider started talking like that, I would seriously be finding a new one.

post #23 of 60

To clarify, if you read my post closely, I did not say that pelvic insufficiency WAS the issue, I said it COULD be.  All PP are correct, there are a thousand different reasons for the baby's head not descending , but I would not "Throw out the baby with the bathwater" so to speak if your provider mentioned that as a concern, as it is valid and something that is on that providers radar.   The fact that some women's pelvis is just not big enough is a fact, but that is not usually the issue at hand.  I am encouraged that your provider is not telling you "absolutely no" on VBAC tells me that he/she feels it is a good option for you, so chances are you will have a more successful birth experience the second time around.  I just felt it was fair to say that it can be an issue.


I hope that clears things up and makes my position more transparent.

post #24 of 60

To answer the chiro question about making you go into labor...this I would tend to say is why you want someone who is experience with pregnancy.  Sure, there are techniques you can try to encourage labor, so you wouldn't to try those until you were full term.  And just the same, you'd avoid if you were not full term.  But, at the same time, if your body isn't ready and you are full term and you try those techniques, it still doesn't mean you'll go into labor.


For me, I started at the chiro at 29 weeks.  I had my baby 2 days shy of my EDD.  My last appointment was 5 days before I went into labor and yes, we tried those techniques...they didn't work!  Even though I had been 4cm and 80% for 2 weeks, not to mention 2.5cm starting at 35 weeks.  So, those "go into labor" techniques didn't do much because my body wasn't ready.  Not to say they couldn't cause preterm labor, but that's why we didnt' try til 39 weeks!


But I do have friends that have been to chiropractors all through pregnancy.  A chirco with experience with pregnant women, it shouldn't be a problem!

post #25 of 60

I think it's very difficult to diagnose pelvic issues/CPD when the baby is malpositioned.  Your baby was asynclitic and that in itself is known to cause issues with labor progress and descent.  All the studies I've looked at say that something like 65% of moms who try for a VBAC after having a primary c/s for CPD are able to deliver vaginally.  When you consider that the overall vaginal delivery rate in the US is only 68%, those odds sound pretty good to me!


I had a c/s for "CPD" as well, but my daughter was persistent OP so I really question the CPD diagnosis.  The OB that did my c/s told me I shouldn't even bother trying to have a VBAC unless I had a preemie.  I have gotten some second opinions from doctors and midwives and they all said I was a good candidate for VBAC, so I'm giving it a shot!  I still sometimes hear that little voice in my head saying "your pelvis is too small" but I try to ignore it.  I know I would always regret it if I didn't at least try for a vaginal birth.



post #26 of 60
Originally Posted by MilkMachineMom View Post

My first-born came via c-section after 20 hours in labor.  At my 38 week appointment, my OB told me that my pelvis wasn't "relaxing and opening" the way it should at that point in my pregnancy, but that often during labor everything resolved itself.  He was very supportive and knew I didn't want a c-section. I see the comment of your pelvis is not relaxing and opening,  as failing to support you. He is telling you right then that there is something wrong with you and that your broken. This in my opinion underminds your mental preparations for labor.


Well, after 20 hours of labor I made it to a 9, but still my pelvis didn't yield and I was having horrible pain as my little guy was in there with his head slanted off to the side (sorry, I forget the technical term for this), causing horrible shooting pain down my leg.  I was trying to hang in there when I had an abruption, thus an emergency c-section. I wonder about interventions you had, did your OB sweep your membranes during an exam, as well did you have any interventions during your labor? Pain medicines, Epidural, artificial rupture of membranes (AROM) , Pitocin, continuous fetal monitoring, not being ambulatory (up and around walking)?  The AROM would have contributed to baby getting in a bad position.


I'm now 24 weeks pregnant, and seeing a different OB (my husband is working on location, and we should be back in time for my regular OB to deliver, but it's not 100%).  At this point my OB is telling me I am a very bad candidate for a VBAC because if my pelvis didn't accommodate before, it isn't likely to this time, either.  Also, she says because I made it to a 9 and things didn't work that means my percentage of success is very low (under 10%).


All of this is garbage get a different care provider one who believes in you, your bodies ability to birth and will support in your effort to VBAC.


post #27 of 60

My C/S was a combination of DD not decending and being induced with a malpositioned baby which put DD in to distress. My DD never decended into my pelvis (she was 7lbs 12oz and i got to 8cms) and after my birth my midwife said 'maybe you just have a small pelvis' i didnt believe her lol. When i was 32wks pregnant with #2 she wasnt engaging either and i read online about chiropractors so i though i'd give it a try. I found a great on and found out that i had a twisted pelvis which is why my DD couldnt decend, after going for a week my 2nd DD's head was in my pelvis! I VBAC's 13mths after my c/s and DD2 was 9lbs! The only problem i have with my pelvis during labour is i get major pains in my hips when the baby is passing through my pelvis but it is manageable. I have been to my chiro ever since and through all my other pregnancies.

post #28 of 60

I wanted to add my experience because I feel its really important to be realistic when approaching a VBAC with an acynclitic baby.  I had a c/s for my first after 30 hours of labor, OP and acynclitic positioning and eventual fetal distress. (he was very much tangled in his cord and I believe that was the major reason that I did not dialate all the way)

Baby #2 was an attempted HBAC with very hands off very supportive midwives. Chiropractic care, and an attempt to keep my posture optimal. My labor was quite a bit different than the first. About half the time, dialted fully and got to experience pushing. FIVE hours of it.  We tried everything. I know that baby turned posterior during transition and it became evident that he was asynclitic when we took a look at his head. He had a pertty bad cephalohematoma on the side of his head which ended up calcifying.  Clearly I was pushing his scalp out but he was not fitting through my pelvis.  At the very last resort of my midwife she placed me in a hanging squat position and realised that my pelvic arch was extremely narrow and there was no way he was fitting through..


I try not to let myself go back to the "what ifs" or the "if onlys"  however I do regret that i was so......naive......thinking that just because i was having a homebirth that it would all turn out ok.  In retrospect I wish that I had more intense bodywork.  Chiropractic care was not enough for me I should have had some more intense therapy. Clearly my pelvis is misaligned and chiro just didn't do enough to correct it.  If I had a better aligned pelvis maybe my baby would have turned properly and the mouldable portion of his head could have made it through my narrow pelvic arch.  Mamas with an adequate pelvis can often deliver an OP or acynclitic baby with a little more effort. But I had all the issues stacked against me.  The important thing to remember is that birth has so many variables and risks and all you can do is prepare the best you can for it because you can never assume you know what will happen.  I was a little less devestated after my second c/s than my first.  Although I know that if I have a 3rd it will be my JOB to find a supportive doctor to take me on.  Yes, I would attempt another VBAC. I managed to learn even more after my second failure even though I thought  knew it all.  It was a humbling experience for me.....


I wish you luck!  I do hope you have a successful VBAC!!

post #29 of 60

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but I have to thank DuckDuckGoose for sharing her story.  It is mine exactly.  I will also be attempting a HBA2C when we hopefully get pregnant this summer.  I think that is a testament to the benefits of a TOL, even if it ends in c-section.  I learned a lot about myself during my labors and I am preparing myself as much as possible for my next birth, knowing there is only so much in my control.

post #30 of 60

I third DuckDuckGoose.  It's my story too.  You never know how birth will turn out.  I have a normal pelvis, actually a larger opening than most due to my tailbone not curing inward.  There is no telling what your pelvis is going to be like in labor, even if you have thousands of exams prenatally or even with your last baby.  It changes and it's a new baby going through there.  The best you can do is offer your baby the best birth possible, and you as well.  We are done having kids due to other factors, but if we had another, I'd attempt another VBAC. 


Much Love to you!  HUGS!

post #31 of 60
Thread Starter 

I appreciate so many people sharing their experiences.  DuckDuckGoose, you have adopted the attitude I aspire to have:  I will do all I can to prepare my body and create the best possible conditions for the birth process, but I also realize I cannot ultimately control the outcome.  My problem has been in the fact that the issues have been presented as absolute, as in:  "if you had this problem before, you'll have it again."  My feeling is, well, let's see what happens.  Maybe things will go smoothly (as I hope).  Maybe they won't.  But steering me towards a surgical procedure without any real issue present irks me more than words can express.


I found a chiropractor that I will see after the holidays and have had a few friends refer doulas to me.  My attitude has already improved so much and I feel like that is also a very good thing for me mentally as I move forward, closer to the birth process.


My warmest wishes to all of you for being so kind and supportive.  I will definitely let everyone know how things go.

post #32 of 60

I'm also trying a VBAC in February and my first baby was posterior and asynclitic, plus he was a big baby and I'm a  petit woman. My labour was labelled as failure to progress due to CDP.


This time I've been using the pink kit, I don't think anybody mentioned here. I'm not sure what's going to be the outcome of my next labour but so far I'm really enjoying this program. You get to be really aware of your body, the shape of your pelvis and what kind of tension can hinder the descent of the baby. I always read that squatting is great...but if you have a small pelvis arch, squatting can tense up a lot the mickey mouse muscles (the one running from you sit bones to your sacrum) and take away opening space. You can exsercise you tailbone and learn some assisted movements that can be very handy if you cannot detect tension in your pelvis. Well, I'm not sure it's going to make a difference but it feels good to be so much more knowlegeable.


post #33 of 60

I too have considered looking at the Pink Kit. I prefer to borrow a copy which I have been told our ICAN group has in it's library.


I think there have been some very good, important distinctions made in this thread. There is a big difference between an OB stating that a pelvis is too small and the experience of some mothers in labor who have learned what their pelvises are like through birth. I believe the latter is much more informed. I'm glad for those who mentioned the pelvic, like with a narrow arch, and I'm glad it sounds like they can be addressed.  Those who posted, I would be curious what things you would try or do next time to allow for a greater opening. 


I just started seeing the chiro this week and already feel looser, and I feel like my activity day to day being at home with DS will benefit me much more than the sedentary desk job I had last pregnancy. I think that tightened up my pelvis a lot, I believe.


This wasn't a thorough exam, but my m/w commented that I have a roomy pelvis when she did the initial internal at my first appt. That encouraged me.

post #34 of 60

With DS #1 I was diagnosed with failure to progress and CPD (cephlopelvic disproportion). Truth was OB had better things to do than to wait on a first time mom.

I think he had a tee time he was anxious to get too. I never gave him any crediability as it related to his diagnosis. Medical records showed some discrepancy.

I will say it was my experience as I approached the stage (centimeters) in a following birth where a lot of emotional things seemed to slow down progress.

Being in a different frame of mind as it relates to understanding what created the scene for the first c-section and having people who understand the brith process, respect it and honor its ways.

Can and does make a huge difference in how a mother will approach following births.


Knowledge is empowering and allows one to make decisions based on fact rather than fear and limited information. 

For moms who have had CPD as diagnosis or other disparagments made about their pelvis.

 I suggest prior to pregnancy get it looked at see what truth there is to what your diagnosis is/was.

If your birth ended with a c-section try mayan massage, cranio sacral therapy, chiropractic all of this to align, repair, and prep for a pregnancy.

I would encourage use of these practitioners during pregnancy as well.

post #35 of 60

I'm happy that my post resonated with so many of you ladies!!!! I feel like us ladies who have BTDT with even one c/s need to stick together and support each other. It is literally impossible to empathise with a fellow birther if you haven't experienced a c/s.  I have had to overcome major birth envy and move past the posts that so flippantly describe birth as easy and fast and amazing.  Of course I would still like to experience that, but I have accepted that it just might not ever happen for me.


AustinMom- I have to admit that I stalked you a little bit as your birth approached.  I saw you as so confident and informed and I was really pulling for you as your birth approached.  I'm sorry that you had a similar experience as I did.   I wish it could have been different for you.  :hug


Alicia  you may remember me from the DDC  I had to adopt another name because of privacy issues...... ;)   To answer your question-   Coming from a massage background  I know that my body is kind of torqued. My hips aren't level, my left leg is a bit longer, and this will make you laugh but I noticed that all my pregnancy underwear was stretched out on the left side.  I also have sciatic problems in my left glute. So I'm pretty sure that contributed to the problem.  This is also very basic but from my understanding a baby needs to fit like a key in the lock to get through your pelvis first one way and then a quarter turn the other way (maybe someone else can explain that better)  and I think mine get hung up between those turns.   I think that chiropratic wasn't enough for me because that muscle memory just pulled me back out of alignment.  I would need to get more intense muscular therapy to retrain my muscles.  Unfortunately I couldn't afford that  (oh how I miss that year in massage school!! free weekly massages...)


Oh and one other detail in my story made me second-guess.  When I was complete I actually wasn't. I was 9cm with a lip.  That should have been a warning sign to me but i was in lalaland and all too happy to try to push past it.  I had read plenty of stories here of mamas who did. Why not?  I wonder if I sealed my fate in not waiting longer or trying more in that period of time before pushing. The other question I have is that IF I had been at a hospital would it have been possible for the doctor to try to adjust my babys head before I started pushing?  I have read stories of success from that technique as well.   Obviously being a VBAC my midwives didn't feel comfortable trying that.

post #36 of 60

Try not to let the "what -ifs" drive you crazy, and they will!  I like to think that something would have gone wrong if I had succeeded in my VBAC attempt, that the decision to have a c-section, even though there was no emergency, was an instinct I was listening to because continuing on would have resulted in something much worse than me dealing with feelings of failure.  Helps me sleep at night anyway blush.gif

post #37 of 60
Originally Posted by DuckDuckGoose View Post
  I think that chiropratic wasn't enough for me because that muscle memory just pulled me back out of alignment.  I would need to get more intense muscular therapy to retrain my muscles.  Unfortunately I couldn't afford that  (oh how I miss that year in massage school!! free weekly massages...)

The chiropractor didn't tell you any exercises you could do to help retrain your muscles? My dh had a different problem, but our chiro was very helpful explaining the muscle memory thing and giving him exercises to do to go along with the adjustments. He worked with us in his office to make sure the exercises would be done properly at home. Worked very well! (in contrast to the quack the year before who only cracked his back 2x a week and sent him on his way).

post #38 of 60

Well....... I have worked with both kinds of chiropractors.  The really involved one (for my first pregnancy) and the super quick crack and you're out kind (for my second)  It was just his style and personality (or lack of it)  and also the fact that I was not a paying client. It was the only place that state health care covered.  I think it was more of an issue than stretching could fix. I also had pretty severe SPD which limited me from a lot of stretches and exercise.

post #39 of 60
Originally Posted by MilkMachineMom View Post

Yeah, I thought if I had dilated further that would be a good sign, too, but the way she explained it was that since I made it that far and nothing relaxed/opened up, it's an indication that it is "just the way my pelvis is," meaning it likely wouldn't yield the 2nd time around (according to her). 


This is similar to what I was told (though for me it was a uterus tilting issue). I tried for a VBAC and when it looked like things were headed the same way as with pg1 (which was trauma & a crash c-section), I opted to go ahead and have the c-section then. Ultimately I'm glad that I did it that way even if it didn't work. I was really devastated after ds' birth, but with dd, I felt that I'd been the one to make the decisions, so it was easier on me emotionally.

post #40 of 60

You are sweet.  I wish so as well.  My confidence is a little broken, but it's mending.  :)

Originally Posted by DuckDuckGoose View Post


AustinMom- I have to admit that I stalked you a little bit as your birth approached.  I saw you as so confident and informed and I was really pulling for you as your birth approached.  I'm sorry that you had a similar experience as I did.   I wish it could have been different for you.  :hug

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