Kiss Your Dentist Goodbye- anyone try Dr. Ellies complete mouthcare system?

[DevaMajka]

I'm wondering how many have tried it, and if they feel it was/is successful.

I read about it yesterday, and am starting it today for ds1, 6yo. He has a new cavity (or 3) every time he visits the dentist (a few times a year). They've all been filled but one small one. I just want to prevent more in the future!!

I emailed Dr. Ellie, and she's great- very nice, and seems happy to help with advice and free samples.

I have high hopes for it, along with some other ideas I got from the curing cavities with nutrition thread:
CLO daily (should be easy- he likes it. blech)
digestive enzymes
cal/mag/D supp, plus our usual multi
more bone broths
more leafy greens (will be easy- he likes greens)
use organic butter- the best I can find for him

We probably won't be doing butter oil, because it will be $80 or so for one bottle!! (Unless people tell me it really really works!!)

eta a few links:
http://askdrellie.blogspot.com/search/label/children
http://www.zelliescleanwhiteteeth.com/pdfs/Complete-Mouthcare-System-Guide.pdf
Edited by DevaMajka - 12/14/10 at 6:49pm

[lindberg99]

I've done the xylitol/ACT rinse off and on with my 6 yo. I haven't figured out if  it helps or not. But I haven't done it consistently. I'm trying to be better about it now. It is too much to have him do 3 rinses so he is just rinsing with Closys after he brushes. Which I know isn't anything like her system but the ACT didn't seem to do much. I figure the Closys will help kill bacteria and raise the pH of his mouth. He goes back to the dentist in April so I can let you know then.

Good luck!

[Juvysen]

[dr ellie]

Children do not need to do the complete rinse system. Closys helps stop gum disease and ACT builds strength into previously damaged teeth - and also whitens teeth by making the outside harder.

Xylitol is the important component of this system - and everyone in the family should understand what cavities are - and what xylitol can DO. Everyone is probably infected and needs the help that xylitol can offer.

Cavities do not just "happen" they are a bacterial infection - a germ in saliva that sticks to teeth and slowly destroys them. Xylitol makes these germs slippery - so they won't stick on teeth and makes them easier for YOU to clean away with a toothbrush ( need a clean toothbrush!!).

Happy to help - as a mother of five, grandmother and concerned about oral health - let me know if you have other questions. Oral health before the age of 4 is VITAL for your general health. Cavities are preventable.

[DevaMajka]

Just wanted to update to say that we started the xylitol and a fluoride rinse (not Act- it's not sold here. I'm trying to get some) the day after I started this thread. A couple days ago, we got Crest, and ds has decided that it's not too "spicy" for him, so he's going to use it too. I'm going to try to keep track of our progress here. He has an appt to have a small cavity filled (the dentist said it wasn't urgent), so we're going to cancel the appt and have a checkup for him in 6ish mos, and see where we are.

We do the fluoride rinse (and he does diluted Listerine sometimes) and floss once a day, and brush twice a day, and I clean the toothbrushes once a day.

I put 1/4 tsp of xylitol in each cup of water ds drinks (he drinks 2-4 a day- it's easier to get him to drink his water with a bit of xylitol in it! It's been a struggle in the past). I also give him 1tsp of xylitol in a bowl that he eats (and sort of swishes around his teeth) through the day. He also gets xylitol gum sometimes, and I ordered some candies- so that's 6g of xylitol at a minimum, and usually 8g or more.

I put 1.5-2tsp of xylitol in 1/2c of water, and swish and spit 5+ times a day until it's gone. I tried to get ds to do the same (spit some of it out) but he's decided against that. lol.

So far, my teeth definitely feel cleaner. I notice a difference in the smoothness from before I swish the xylitol and after.

Ds says that his front teeth are whiter. He had "cavities" (no decay, just the enamel came off) on his front top teeth since he was 18mos old. They have fillings on them, but are noticably yellower than his other teeth. Apparently, kids in his class have asked him why they are yellow. Anyway, I haven't read anything about xylitol making teeth whiter, but I looked at them the other day, and they do seem less yellow. So who knows. Maybe the xylitol is making them smoother, which makes them look shinier and gives the illusion that they are whiter? Regardless, I'm happy that he's happy!

eta- just read the post that says that Act can make teeth whiter- maybe that's what's helping! Either way, yay!

[coyotemist]

Anyone tried Oralcryst?

http://www.amazon.com/Oralcryst-Junior-Strawberry/dp/B0031KA3TE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1293078818&sr=8-2

[lindberg99]

I've seen the Oralcryst but it seems expensive to me. I usually get the bulk packs of mints (they also come in fruit flavor) from epicdental.com. They also have smaller packs but I have 3 kids so we go through them quickly.

[organicmidwestmama]

also curious. its very confusing because some people say cavities are solely caused by nutritional deficiency and some, like dr ellie, says its caused by oral environment and improper hygeine.

[dr ellie]

Foods can build strength into teeth.

Foods can take strength out of teeth and weaken them.

Very acidic foods can even dissolve teeth and make small holes in teeth - but this is erosion - not a cavity.

Cavities are caused by sticky, acid-forming germs - that are spread between people in saliva during kissing or sharing food.

Any carbohydrate or sugary food will feed these germs and make them grow and multiply.

As these germs grow they stick together and form plaque.

As they grow they produce acids which make holes in teeth.

Now the germs can creep up the holes, and dissolve more tooth - deeper and deeper.

Any sugar or carbohydrate - ANY - feeds these germs and makes more acid - inside the surface of the tooth.

Eventually the tooth is so full of holes and acid-forming germs - it falls apart and disintegrates = a cavity.

So it is a combination of germs and foods. The more sugar or acid you feed these germs - the more plaque - and the more damage to teeth.

XYLITOL makes all these germs slippery - so they fall off teeth.

XYLITOL repairs the holes that acids make in teeth - and if you nibble xylitol - teeth can repair themselves.

[DevaMajka]

Ds1's molar broke apart last week- a big chunk just fell off. The dentist said it was because we'd used the white fillings instead of silver ones. sigh. He also said that cavities never heal, that you can only halt the decay. That's definitely not what I've read on MDC and elsewhere online. I guess at some point we'll see for ourselves.

But no new cavities for ds1 (and the did x-rays, because his baby teeth are growing in too far apart :( ). It's been 1.5 mos, and at the rate he was getting cavities before, I'm going to tentatively count that as progress.

He's still doing the Crest, listerine (diluted), and fluoride rinse every day. The xylitol, I don't always get all 6g into him, but most days he gets 6g, and some days he gets more. I'm doing it all diligently, too.

[rubidoux]

I'm wondering if xylitol in water would be the best way to give it to a toddler.  He's 23 mos and I think too young for gum or a hard candy.  Does anyone know of a candy he could handle?  He'd probably think that was pretty exciting.  lol

[DevaMajka]

There are teeny candies, I'd have to look up what they are called. I think they are by spry, though. It would get expensive giving him those exclusively, though. (apparently you need 6g a day to make a difference. I haven't read different dosages for toddlers).

I give ds2 granulated xylitol in water, though. I also have given him Dr. Ellies fruit candies on occasion, which I think are smaller than choking hazard size (about the size of a pea, I'd guess). He doesn't reliably drink much, but I give him sips of really concentrated xylitol water and he likes it. He doesn't get 6g per day, but his teeth are ok so far. It's ds1 that has the problems.

[rubidoux]

Thanks for the info!  I have a feeling that my usual health food store here will have a good selection of xylitol candies.  I just never go to that part of the store.  I'll have to check it out tomorrow and also pick up some xylitol for his water.  Normally I just give him little bits of water in a normal cup, but I think if I put it in a straw cup he'll drink a lot more, especially if it's sweet.  He likes the novelty of the straw cup.  I wish there was some way to trade out a straw cup filled with xylitol water for the breast for one or two of those nighttime nursing hours.  lol  Maybe I could rig up one of those fanny packs with the long curly straw.

[rubidoux]

Thanks!  I think I'll have to get some ZellieBears.  I've been trying to get him to drink xylitol water for two days now and not really getting anywhere.  

[APToddlerMama]

subbing

[rush2ady]

Hi, not trying to be controversial, but I would skip the fluoride rinse, it's poisonous, and can actually harm teeth.

[organicmidwestmama]

I guess for me I am not "sold" on the idea that our oral health or lack thereof is essentially completely related to complex hygiene methods which involve purchasing numerous mouth care products. I have read a few scientific journal article regarding xylitol and some studies found no benefit on caries, some did. Likewise, many studies have found no benefit on ingested flouride via water, on the rates of caries. As a child, I received regular dental care, brushed with flouride tp, flossed, received sealants on my molars, drank fluoridated water etc, and yet I had cavity after cavity.how did ancient peoples maintain good dental health without flouride, xylitol and closys mouthwash? And yes, there is evidence via dental publications, photos, and archaeological findings that people often did not have decay like modern people do. I realize there were people getting cavities a hundred years ago, but entire groups of peoples did not. I'm looking for real explanations, is it simply that once the hundreds of germs associated with caries take hold were doomed?

[georgia]

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Back to teeth talk 

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by rubidoux 

Thanks!  I think I'll have to get some ZellieBears.  I've been trying to get him to drink xylitol water for two days now and not really getting anywhere.  

I make a pretty strong mix for myself (1-1.5 tsp in about 1/4c water- I swish and spit), and ds2 likes to drink it. I water it down a little bit for him, but it's still really sweet. That might make it more of a "treat" for your lo, perhaps?
 

Originally Posted by rush2ady 

Hi, not trying to be controversial, but I would skip the fluoride rinse, it's poisonous, and can actually harm teeth.

Controversy is a-ok with me :)  It gives me stuff to think about, which is always good :)

I had to think long and hard about the fluoride. I agree that ingested fluoride has more risks than benefits. Our water isn't fluoridated here (though where we lived when ds1 got his first cavities, it WAS fluoridated). Dr. Ellie says that ingested fluoride = bad, too.
I guess, for me, I have to do what seems like it will help. Eating well and reducing sugar hasn't helped. There is a lot of (albeit mainstream) evidence that fluoride helps. And the mainstream medical community can't be wrong about everything. (can they? lol) .

[joyful mother]

This thread is very helpful.  We have 6 kiddos and yesterday we had a dentist appointment.  I really want to see if we can heal up the cavities before their next appointment in 3.5 weeks.  I too believe that in the traditional societies we would not have to do all this but I also realize my children's teeth are compromised and I have to work from where we are and not just watch all their teeth rot and fall out as I find an answer.