Riding a bike at 9:00 pm with your baby in a Mei tai.... - Page 4

[nextcommercial]

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/pq6b_amsterdam_bicycle_many.jpg

I love the above picture - I got it from here -

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/

O.K.. I know this is changing the subject.....

But, how do you get two kids on a two wheeled bike (in the child seats) without the bike falling over?  

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/pt0b_amsterdam_bicycle_many.jpg  <--like in this picture?  How does the bike stay up while you put both kids on?
 

[HollyBearsMom]

We have helmet laws here and there is a well known (local) celeb and his famous wife who are constantly getting photo'd riding there bikes w/ no helmets. They now put a helmet on their kid but the press still goes crazy taking photos. I can tell it's a slow news days when that's the 11pm teaser.

[oaktreemama]

I spent my junior year in the Netherlands. Comparing how the Dutch ride bikes and what they do and don't do for safety reasons with the US is simply untenable. The Dutch grow up in a culture that promotes bike riding above all other forms of transportation. They grow up used to riding with cars, and also grow up to drive those cars used to riding with bikes.

Every new street/roadway must include a bike lane, and in many cases the bike lane has a barrier between it and the car roadway. It makes no sense to bring the Dutch into this argument at all.

The man was taking a risk with his baby that he should not have taken. That he chose to do so hardly makes him a bastion of parental freedom that we should admire. It simply makes him look irresponsible.

There are much safer ways to transport a baby or child on a bicycle-and our trailer was free from Freecycle.

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial 

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/pq6b_amsterdam_bicycle_many.jpg

I love the above picture - I got it from here -

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/

O.K.. I know this is changing the subject.....

But, how do you get two kids on a two wheeled bike (in the child seats) without the bike falling over?  

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/pt0b_amsterdam_bicycle_many.jpg  <--like in this picture?  How does the bike stay up while you put both kids on?
 

You can get a kick stand the goes down on both sides of the bike.  Also, practice.  The hardest part for me is the actual work of riding.  I have a trailer I pull sometimes too - we're talking 60 - 80 extra pounds depending on the day...
 

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by oaktreemama 

I spent my junior year in the Netherlands. Comparing how the Dutch ride bikes and what they do and don't do for safety reasons with the US is simply untenable. The Dutch grow up in a culture that promotes bike riding above all other forms of transportation. They grow up used to riding with cars, and also grow up to drive those cars used to riding with bikes.

Every new street/roadway must include a bike lane, and in many cases the bike lane has a barrier between it and the car roadway. It makes no sense to bring the Dutch into this argument at all.

The man was taking a risk with his baby that he should not have taken. That he chose to do so hardly makes him a bastion of parental freedom that we should admire. It simply makes him look irresponsible.

There are much safer ways to transport a baby or child on a bicycle-and our trailer was free from Freecycle.

You just can't say what another parent should or shouldn't be doing.  And also, it is so classist to bring up freecycle.  Yes, it is free - but do you realize there are people out there, even in the good old U S of A, that don't have access to a computer or the internet??? 
 

[oaktreemama]

Blah. Not going to waste my breath arguing for the sake of arguing. Good night!!

Edited by oaktreemama - 12/20/10 at 2:50pm

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by oaktreemama 

 And also, it is so classist to bring up freecycle.  Yes, it is free - but do you realize there are people out there, even in the good old U S of A, that don't have access to a computer or the internet??? 
 

Oh my-thank you for making me laugh out loud. I don't think I have ever heard someone say Freecycle was classist. Freecycle? Phew.

YEs.  It is classist to assume everyone has access to a computer - the only way to do freecycle.  Dumpster diving?  that's for everyone.  It's clasist that you would laugh at the idea that some people don't have access to freecycle/a computer.    It's sad, actually.  To assume just because something is "free" that all people have access to it.  Really.
 

[kythe]

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

The guy in the op would have had to spend a lot more than $20 for a bike seat or a trailer. 

He would have had to pay a lot more for a mei tai too.

Who knows if it was an actual mai tei, or a cheap knock off or from a second hand store...  also a baby can't go in a bike seat, but can be snuggled against daddy or mommy's chest :)
 

This is what blows my mind.  If the baby is snuggled against daddy or mommy's chest, consider what that means in an accident.  If you hit something or something hits you, you fly forward.  The baby is now acting as your "airbag", taking the impact of the crash since you will land on the pavement in a prone position.  If anything, a back carry might be safer if it is tight and secure.  Still, it doesn't always take much to loosen up a sling and the baby will fly out anyway.  This is why slings aren't a substitute for seat belts/car seats in a car.  You can't hold the baby securely enough if there is impact.

I also tend to not see bike riding as very economical, at least in the US.  I used public transportation with two young kids for 4 years before getting a car.  I've known many families during my time in low-income housing who also rode the bus, but have never seen people in my area use a bicycle as a method of family transportation.  I had a road bike that I had originally cost $900+ from which I rode regularly before I had kids.  But it wouldn't have occurred to me to put the kids on it with me. You can get bike attachments and equipment used, but from what I've seen its still more expensive than just buying a monthly bus pass.  This obviously varies according to where you live, though.  I see bicycling as an expensive hobby, not a cheap form of family transportation.
 

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by kythe 

It isn't difficult, expensive ($20 or less), or even uncomfortable to use a helmet while riding and to obey traffic laws.

I don't think it's a great idea to ride a bike with a baby in a mei tai - at least not in my city. I can't say for any other. However, $20.00 can be expensive, depending on a person's financial situation (I can certainly remember times when an unexpected $10-$20 expense had me curled up in a ball, crying, wondering where I could possibly find that much money). And, if helmets aren't uncomfortable for you, I'm very happy that's the case. I always wear one when I cycle (it's been a few years now), but I find it very uncomfortable. Saying one doesn't understand why someone else wouldn't wear it, because it's not "even uncomfortable" is kind of ridiculous. They have some reason for not wearing it - how do you know discomfort isn't part of it?

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by kythe 

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

The guy in the op would have had to spend a lot more than $20 for a bike seat or a trailer. 

He would have had to pay a lot more for a mei tai too.

Who knows if it was an actual mai tei, or a cheap knock off or from a second hand store...  also a baby can't go in a bike seat, but can be snuggled against daddy or mommy's chest :)
 

This is what blows my mind.  If the baby is snuggled against daddy or mommy's chest, consider what that means in an accident.  If you hit something or something hits you, you fly forward.  The baby is now acting as your "airbag", taking the impact of the crash since you will land on the pavement in a prone position.  If anything, a back carry might be safer if it is tight and secure.  Still, it doesn't always take much to loosen up a sling and the baby will fly out anyway.  This is why slings aren't a substitute for seat belts/car seats in a car.  You can't hold the baby securely enough if there is impact.

I also tend to not see bike riding as very economical, at least in the US.  I used public transportation with two young kids for 4 years before getting a car.  I've known many families during my time in low-income housing who also rode the bus, but have never seen people in my area use a bicycle as a method of family transportation.  I had a road bike that I had originally cost $900+ from which I rode regularly before I had kids.  But it wouldn't have occurred to me to put the kids on it with me. You can get bike attachments and equipment used, but from what I've seen its still more expensive than just buying a monthly bus pass.  This obviously varies according to where you live, though.  I see bicycling as an expensive hobby, not a cheap form of family transportation.
 

what you're saying is probably true in areas with good public transport.  Many (if not most) areas of the us don't have good public transportation.  Honestly, I am so grateful we have a car.   And I know just how privileged that makes me.  So I am not going to judge someone riding a bike with a baby in a mei tai.  I just can't know their situation. 
 

[Carma]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial 

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/pq6b_amsterdam_bicycle_many.jpg

I love the above picture - I got it from here -

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/

O.K.. I know this is changing the subject.....

But, how do you get two kids on a two wheeled bike (in the child seats) without the bike falling over?  

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/pt0b_amsterdam_bicycle_many.jpg  <--like in this picture?  How does the bike stay up while you put both kids on?
 

You either let the bike lean against your hip with the seating part and/or you use the stand that's on the bike (but stand is often too wobbly). The oldest can also often climb on.

Bike accidents do happen in The Netherlands. When people get older and become less balanced for example. But everywhere there are bikelanes, bikes have right of way, there are no hills and everyone learns to bike at a very early age. When I was young (from 12 years old) I had to ride about 4 miles on my bike to school with all the other kids, in every season. Before that I would ride my bike with my mom to the grocery store etc. We had one car, and my father used it to get to work. My parents have 4 kids ;)

Carma

[bluebackpacks]

The first thing I thought of when reading the original post was that the wee one might have colic, and dad was out for a calming bike ride.  I am surprised that four pages worth of comments have been used to address this man's parenting abilities/decisions.  Wow, just wow!  Qui sine peccato est vestrum...

[Carma]

Originally Posted by bluebackpacks 

The first thing I thought of when reading the original post was that the wee one might have colic, and dad was out for a calming bike ride.  I am surprised that four pages worth of comments have been used to address this man's parenting abilities/decisions.  Wow, just wow!  Qui sine peccato est vestrum...

Yes, but then he could have walked I guess :-p

Carma

[AislinCarys]

I've had the option. And I certainly wouldn't. When we lived in Sweden (DD was 16 to 26 months old in that period), we biked around a lot. I don't drive, and biking is quite common there, with lots of bike lanes, and the area we lived in had not so much traffic, good vision, 30 km/h speed limits and an expectation that kids will be playing in the street. We had a Weeride for her, and we both wore helmets. However, coming home on the bus with DD asleep in the mei tai, I could chose between biking with her still in the mei tai, wake her and put her on bike, or walk 2 km. I usually opted to walk, and would never choose to bike babywearing. we talked about it and read up on the safety before deciding this. I did fall with her on the bike once, on an icy patch, and several times we nearly fell. All you need is something in the road that shouldn't be there (and in the dark or rain this is really difficult to see, despite bike lights), and you go flying.

[jeminijad]

No, I would not.

Statements like 'everything is dangerous' really only illustrate a poor understanding of relative risk.

Then trying to throw classism in there because someone mentions freecycle? Really? In this country, if you are a Caucasian mei tei user, you have a very high chance of also being an internet user!

Riding a bike in a car culture is just plain dangerous. Doing it while off balance (child in carrier,) at night (poor visibility) etc is... a clear loser in my risk/benefit analysis.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by jeminijad 

Then trying to throw classism in there because someone mentions freecycle? Really? In this country, if you are a Caucasian mei tei user, you have a very high chance of also being an internet user!

Riding a bike in a car culture is just plain dangerous. Doing it while off balance (child in carrier,) at night (poor visibility) etc is... a clear loser in my risk/benefit analysis.

I didn't see any indication in this thread that the man was Caucasian. I also have to point out that "very high chance" isn't the same thing as "definite". I can tell you that I babywore with ds1 in 1993, and I didn't even own a computer until 1998, and didn't have internet access for another year. It's possible that the most common demographic for formal AP is highly educated, reasonably well off, Caucasians, but there are always exceptions.

I totally get what you're saying in the last sentence, but I don't see how you can possibly talk about the risk/benefit analysis, when you don't have any idea what factors went into the "benefit" side for the guy in the OP. People (including me) risk their children's lives every single day, without outside comment about the risk/benefit analysis. That doesn't mean we're not doing something really, really stupid from that perspective.

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by jeminijad 

Riding a bike in a car culture is just plain dangerous. Doing it while off balance (child in carrier,) at night (poor visibility) etc is... a clear loser in my risk/benefit analysis.

I wouldn't do it either.  I am fortunate enough to have a car.  I just can't judge someone who makes a different choice than me - I have no idea what his risk/benefit analysis was.  I'm willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt.  I kind of don't get the point of these threads in general - why not just cut people some slack?  Most people truly are doing the best they can.

[bluebackpacks]

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

 I kind of don't get the point of these threads in general - why not just cut people some slack?  Most people truly are doing the best they can.

  

I feel this thread has taken a very negative and judgmental tone.  I will be the second person to (figuratively) stand up and and say, "Enough is enough."