4yo has 1st Rx for antibiotics and I'm chickening out

[kittynurse]

So, the title basically says it all.  DS2, who just turned 4, is supposed to be taking antibiotics for the first time and I'm having a really hard time with it.  I haven't given him the first dose yet, it's still sitting in the fridge.  He's also unvaccinated btw.

He had what I thought was a cold over a month ago and the snotty nose and the cough have been just hanging on and hanging on.  I wasn't overly worried about it except for the fact that he would wake up every night about an hour after going to sleep and cough his poor little head off for about 15 minutes.  He even burst a blood vessel in his eye from that (which has since cleared up).

We happened to be at the doctor for his 4 year check up and I mentionned the lingering symptoms because I'm starting to suspect he has developed allergies.  Up to now he has been super healthy with very few issues but this past summer things seemed to change.  He had a really weird rash on his back that took forever to go away completely and he has also had quite a rashy bum despite the fact that he is now out of diapers and never has accidents (so no urine or feces next to his skin).  His cheeks are rough and the skin on his back is rough as well.  His personality has changed somewhat as well but at the time I attributed it to growing as he has gained 2 lbs and grown 2 inches.

So, the doctor didn't disagree with my allergy theory but wanted me to come back for another appointment to discuss that more thoroughly (I'm in Canada).  As a first step she suggested treating for a sinus infection in case that was the cause of the lingering symptoms.  I agreed and took the prescription but it's been 3 days now and I still haven't given it to him.

Can anyone offer any advice?  Tell me that one time won't hurt and I'm silly to worry about this?  Or, tell me I'm crazy to give them to him and provide a list of remedies I can try at home?  He has a recheck appointment in 10 days and I really don't want to go back and say I didn't give them if he's still not better.

I should add that our older son who is 6 has many issues including asthma, allergies, ADHD, SPD and anxiety.  He is also vaccinated.  All of his issues were passed along genetically but I've always had lingering concerns in my mind that between the vaccines and all the meds he needed for his asthma and allergies that something triggered his issues to be more severe than they could have been.  I think this is why I'm so scared to give my little guy the antibiotics - I don't want to trigger anything in him.

Please, if you have anything to offer me I would be most grateful.

TIA

Martha

[alegna]

I wouldn't give antibiotics for a maybe situation.  If there was a culture and knowledge of a specific infection- sure.  But not "maybe, we'll try this"  sounds like a recipe for adding to antibiotic resistance issues to me.

-Angela

[HollyBearsMom]

Originally Posted by alegna 

I wouldn't give antibiotics for a maybe situation.  If there was a culture and knowledge of a specific infection- sure.  But not "maybe, we'll try this"  sounds like a recipe for adding to antibiotic resistance issues to me.

-Angela

Agree with Angela.  I would not give them your son with a further diagnosis.

And I am surprised in this day and age any doc is still routinely offering up antibiotics as a panacea for common ailments or as a precaution. Around me I often hear the complaint that the doc *won't* give out antibiotics. I guess there are still docs and parents who are not educated on the potential risks/dangers of overusing antibiotics. Personally I think antibiotics are a wonderful drug that can saves lives but also should be used sparingly and only when a true bacterial infection is known.

[moonlight mom]

Agree with previous posts.  I was in the same situation as you when ds was 2 and I choose to do the ABs.  Well he only got much worse and ended up having RSV (untreatable with ABs)  I will only give ABs if there is a clear dx - yes he has a BAD ear infection or yes he has pneumonia.  I have been give a number of prescriptions since then with the explaination that "it could be" and I don't fill them.

[kittynurse]

Ok, so the consensus seems to be not to give them to him.  Glad to know I'm not crazy for being reluctant to give them.  So, my next question is: what do I do to heal him?  Despite the fact that we don't vaccinate or use antibiotics, I'm not particularly knowledgable about natural remedies.  I use garlic oil for ear infections (thanks to MDC!) and that's pretty much the extent of my natural healing abilities.

What would you do for a 32lb 4 year old with a persistant snotty nose and cough?

TIA

Martha

[lynsage]

Originally Posted by kittynurse 

What would you do for a 32lb 4 year old with a persistant snotty nose and cough?

TIA

Martha

I would eliminate dairy from his diet, push clear fluids and immune-boosting foods and herbs, and refuse to give him abx unless the doctor could show me a positive culture for a bacteria that the abx are specifically meant to eliminate AND a compelling reason why the abx are needed as opposed to using other treatments and/or letting the infection run its course.

The first thing I'd give for cough is slippery elm.

I'm not a doctor or even an herbalist, however, so I encourage you to do your own research and choose what's best for your DS.
 

[coyotemist]

Did she mention bronchitis or pneumonia?  That cough sounds concerning.  I'd suspect  bronchitis with a cough that's been hanging on for 4 weeks.

I probably would give them to him, unless you are planning a heavy duty coarse of echinacea (1 drop per body weight of tincture 4x day for 10 days).  It sounds like something is going on, and not just allergies.

[kittynurse]

Originally Posted by coyotemist 

Did she mention bronchitis or pneumonia?  That cough sounds concerning.  I'd suspect  bronchitis with a cough that's been hanging on for 4 weeks.

I probably would give them to him, unless you are planning a heavy duty coarse of echinacea (1 drop per body weight of tincture 4x day for 10 days).  It sounds like something is going on, and not just allergies.

 She didn't mention bronchitis or pneumonia.  She definitely said the antibiotics were for treating a possible sinus infection.  I really doubt it could be pneumonia, he's just nowhere near sick enough for that.  Bronchitis is a possibility I guess. It's the nasal symptoms that are the worst though.  Could it still be bronchitis?  The cough really only appears at night for a short while and then when he first wakes up in the morning.

I'm not planning a heavy duty course of echinacea since I'm highly allergic to ragweed and don't want to add that factor to the equation.

I do agree that there probably is something more than just allergies going on but my problem is I don't know how worried I should be about that something more.

Martha

[coyotemist]

If that's the only time he's coughing it's probably post-nasal drip.

What color is his snot?

[Mama2Kayla]

Lots of Vitamin C in the form of Sodium Ascorbate. That's what helped my 3 yr old beat a lingering cold/sinus thing

[stik]

I'm going to buck the status quo for this thread - I would give him the antibiotics.  He's been sick for a month.  That typically indicates an infection.  If his immune system were going to fight it off, it would have been gone by now.  You could wait for a culture to see exactly which bacteria are involved, but the treatment would be the same. 

I think you're probably right that your son has developed allergies.  Untreated allergies cause serial sinus infections.  Untreated sinus infections can lead to bronchitis and pneumonia.  I'd want to get off the Sick Train before it pulls into to Walking Pneumonia Station.  When my kids have been in this situation, I have given the meds, and then followed up with some pretty aggressive treatment for the allergies. 

[kittynurse]

Originally Posted by coyotemist 

If that's the only time he's coughing it's probably post-nasal drip.

What color is his snot?

Whiteish to pale yellow.  It's never gotten any darker than that (although I know that green doesn't always equal infection).  Do you think if I use a saline mist to clear out his nose before bed that it might help with the coughing?

 

Originally Posted by Mama2Kayla 

Lots of Vitamin C in the form of Sodium Ascorbate. That's what helped my 3 yr old beat a lingering cold/sinus thing

 Duh, I don't know why I didn't think of Vitamin C!  I don't have any SA on hand but will get some from the HFS tomorrow.  Thanks for the tip.

Martha

[mamaof5boys]

I am a huge believer of essential oils.  You could diffuse EOs into the air, apply it to the soles of his feet, or even have him smell it from the bottle.  Just make sure they are therapeutic quality.  I have a great solution for a sinus rinse that a prominent MD from France/aromatherapist recommends (Dr. Penoel) if you think he could do a sinus rinse?  If you're interested I can post it.

[kittynurse]

Originally Posted by stik 

I'm going to buck the status quo for this thread - I would give him the antibiotics.  He's been sick for a month.  That typically indicates an infection.  If his immune system were going to fight it off, it would have been gone by now.  You could wait for a culture to see exactly which bacteria are involved, but the treatment would be the same. 

I think you're probably right that your son has developed allergies.  Untreated allergies cause serial sinus infections.  Untreated sinus infections can lead to bronchitis and pneumonia.  I'd want to get off the Sick Train before it pulls into to Walking Pneumonia Station.  When my kids have been in this situation, I have given the meds, and then followed up with some pretty aggressive treatment for the allergies. 

 Weird, I don't know why I didn't see this when I replied to the other two.

Anyway, I didn't know that about allergies causing sinus infections.  That would explain a lot for me.  Just out of curiosity, what do you do to treat allergies in your children?  Do you find the sinus infections have lessened since treating the allergies?

Martha

Martha

[kittynurse]

Originally Posted by mamaof5boys 

I am a huge believer of essential oils.  You could diffuse EOs into the air, apply it to the soles of his feet, or even have him smell it from the bottle.  Just make sure they are therapeutic quality.  I have a great solution for a sinus rinse that a prominent MD from France/aromatherapist recommends (Dr. Penoel) if you think he could do a sinus rinse?  If you're interested I can post it.

I doubt he would do a sinus rinse.  Just washing his nose with the nasal mist is a fight.  He would probably go for a little foot massage or sniffing the bottles though.  I would be interested in your sinus rinse recipe for myself though if you don't mind posting it.

Martha
 

[coyotemist]

Originally Posted by kittynurse 

Whiteish to pale yellow.  It's never gotten any darker than that (although I know that green doesn't always equal infection).  Do you think if I use a saline mist to clear out his nose before bed that it might help with the coughing?

 

Yeah, well, they can say that.  But I'm a respiratory therapist, I "play with" snot every single day that I'm at work.  I've had patients and watched their snot change colors over the course of days and been able to predict a pneumonia before the x-ray caught it.  So I beg to differ on the green doesn't equal infection.  But that's anecdotal :).  I wonder if he's just picked up several virus's over the course of the month, and it's not bacterial.  Whitish to pale yellow, coughing as a result of drainage...doesn't sound like a bacterial infection.  Has he had any fevers?  Body aches?  Lethargy?  How is his eating and drinking?

Originally Posted by mamaof5boys 

I am a huge believer of essential oils.  You could diffuse EOs into the air, apply it to the soles of his feet, or even have him smell it from the bottle.  Just make sure they are therapeutic quality.  I have a great solution for a sinus rinse that a prominent MD from France/aromatherapist recommends (Dr. Penoel) if you think he could do a sinus rinse?  If you're interested I can post it.

I'm also a huge lover of essential oils.  Diffuse some eucalyptis and peppermint in the bedroom before sleep.  Soak some socks in ice water, give him a warm foot bath (just feet) then pull the ice cold socks over his feet and put dry wool socks over the top.  Put him to bed in the smelly room and see how he is in the morning.  I'm not anti-antibiotic, but I'm anti-antibiotic if there is a virus.

Originally Posted by kittynurse 

Originally Posted by stik 

I'm going to buck the status quo for this thread - I would give him the antibiotics.  He's been sick for a month.  That typically indicates an infection.  If his immune system were going to fight it off, it would have been gone by now.  You could wait for a culture to see exactly which bacteria are involved, but the treatment would be the same. 

I think you're probably right that your son has developed allergies.  Untreated allergies cause serial sinus infections.  Untreated sinus infections can lead to bronchitis and pneumonia.  I'd want to get off the Sick Train before it pulls into to Walking Pneumonia Station.  When my kids have been in this situation, I have given the meds, and then followed up with some pretty aggressive treatment for the allergies. 

 Weird, I don't know why I didn't see this when I replied to the other two.

Anyway, I didn't know that about allergies causing sinus infections.  That would explain a lot for me.  Just out of curiosity, what do you do to treat allergies in your children?  Do you find the sinus infections have lessened since treating the allergies?

Martha

Martha

We believe in air purifier in the bedroom, Singulair (prescription), and Claritin or Zyrtec.  Quercetin is an excellent natural remedy.   I do a good combo of herbal and pharmaceutical treatments with severe allergies.  With my daughter and I the biggest culprits this time of year are dust and dust mites.  She has a dustmite-free pillowcase and mattress cover.
 

[stik]

My older dd takes allegra and nasal steroids for her allergies during allergy season.  When things get really bad, she adds Singulair for a week or so.  These are expensive and not covered by our insurance, so we do a bunch of things to fend off the need as long as we can - frequent vacuuming in her room, trying to limit dust, local honey, hot showers when she seems at all congested. But we administer meds when she shows early signs of discomfort. 

Prior to treatment for allergies, she was usually sick (unable to engage in age-appropriate activities) for 4-6 weeks each year and feeling yucky for the surrounding months.  Treatment means she only gets sinus infections when they are going around her class at school, and she recovers much more quickly. 

[kittynurse]

A little bit of an update for this morning.  I gave DS2 some antihistamine yesterday and today and he seems to be much improved.  His sleep was way better last night with only a little bit of coughing and I think he only coughed then because I was coughing and woke him up.  There's nowhere near the volume of snot now even first thing this morning when the antihistamine would have worn off.
 

Originally Posted by coyotemist 

Originally Posted by kittynurse 

Whiteish to pale yellow.  It's never gotten any darker than that (although I know that green doesn't always equal infection).  Do you think if I use a saline mist to clear out his nose before bed that it might help with the coughing?

 

Yeah, well, they can say that.  But I'm a respiratory therapist, I "play with" snot every single day that I'm at work.  I've had patients and watched their snot change colors over the course of days and been able to predict a pneumonia before the x-ray caught it.  So I beg to differ on the green doesn't equal infection.  But that's anecdotal :).  I wonder if he's just picked up several virus's over the course of the month, and it's not bacterial.  Whitish to pale yellow, coughing as a result of drainage...doesn't sound like a bacterial infection.  Has he had any fevers?  Body aches?  Lethargy?  How is his eating and drinking?

Originally Posted by mamaof5boys 

I am a huge believer of essential oils.  You could diffuse EOs into the air, apply it to the soles of his feet, or even have him smell it from the bottle.  Just make sure they are therapeutic quality.  I have a great solution for a sinus rinse that a prominent MD from France/aromatherapist recommends (Dr. Penoel) if you think he could do a sinus rinse?  If you're interested I can post it.

I'm also a huge lover of essential oils.  Diffuse some eucalyptis and peppermint in the bedroom before sleep.  Soak some socks in ice water, give him a warm foot bath (just feet) then pull the ice cold socks over his feet and put dry wool socks over the top.  Put him to bed in the smelly room and see how he is in the morning.  I'm not anti-antibiotic, but I'm anti-antibiotic if there is a virus.

Originally Posted by kittynurse 

Originally Posted by stik 

I'm going to buck the status quo for this thread - I would give him the antibiotics.  He's been sick for a month.  That typically indicates an infection.  If his immune system were going to fight it off, it would have been gone by now.  You could wait for a culture to see exactly which bacteria are involved, but the treatment would be the same. 

I think you're probably right that your son has developed allergies.  Untreated allergies cause serial sinus infections.  Untreated sinus infections can lead to bronchitis and pneumonia.  I'd want to get off the Sick Train before it pulls into to Walking Pneumonia Station.  When my kids have been in this situation, I have given the meds, and then followed up with some pretty aggressive treatment for the allergies. 

 Weird, I don't know why I didn't see this when I replied to the other two.

Anyway, I didn't know that about allergies causing sinus infections.  That would explain a lot for me.  Just out of curiosity, what do you do to treat allergies in your children?  Do you find the sinus infections have lessened since treating the allergies?

Martha

Martha

We believe in air purifier in the bedroom, Singulair (prescription), and Claritin or Zyrtec.  Quercetin is an excellent natural remedy.   I do a good combo of herbal and pharmaceutical treatments with severe allergies.  With my daughter and I the biggest culprits this time of year are dust and dust mites.  She has a dustmite-free pillowcase and mattress cover.
 

It's funny, I've never really believed the idea that green snot doesn't always equal infection - glad to know someone in the field agrees with me!

He hasn't had any fevers or body aches that I know of, he DEFINITELY is not lethargic! LOL, his appetite and thirst are normal.  I believe I have some eucalyptus and peppermint EOs so I will get them going in the room tonight.  We still cosleep most nights so I'll get the benefit of it too!  Will have to get some wool socks to try the foot trick or can I just use regular socks?

I have an air purifier that is usually in DS1's (my 6 year old) room, I can use that in our room tonight and get a new one tomorrow so they both have one.  We have used Singulair in the past for DS1 and while it was a miracle drug as far as his respiratory stuff goes, it was a nightmare (literally!) as far as his behaviour went.  I think DS2 would have to have much more severe symptoms before I would resort to that.  I'm in Canada so we don't have Zyrtec (I think).  I'm using Aerius at the moment for him since that is what I had on hand for DS1.  We had been using Reactine with great success for DS1 but it seems to be unavailable.  Our ped is actually somewhat holistically minded despite this recent antibiotic rx so I will ask her about quercetin when we go in to talk about allergies.

Both DS1 and I have diagnosed dust mite allergies so the beds and pillows are encased already and have been for pretty much DS2's whole life.  Interestingly, he slept without his pillow last night and I'm wondering if the cover on his pillow has lost it's effectiveness.  Can that happen?  It's actually the first cover I bought when we got DS1's diagnosis and it's just the fairly cheap kind from Zellers (like Target).  Maybe I will get him a new pillow and a new, better quality cover and see if that helps.

 

 Quote:

Originally Posted by stik 

My older dd takes allegra and nasal steroids for her allergies during allergy season.  When things get really bad, she adds Singulair for a week or so.  These are expensive and not covered by our insurance, so we do a bunch of things to fend off the need as long as we can - frequent vacuuming in her room, trying to limit dust, local honey, hot showers when she seems at all congested. But we administer meds when she shows early signs of discomfort. 

Prior to treatment for allergies, she was usually sick (unable to engage in age-appropriate activities) for 4-6 weeks each year and feeling yucky for the surrounding months.  Treatment means she only gets sinus infections when they are going around her class at school, and she recovers much more quickly. 

Sounds like you guys have a pretty similar system to us.  Only we don't use the Singulair anymore because of the reasons I mentionned above.  We were lucky the Singulair was covered by insurance - it's soooo expensive!  Our older guy has asthma as well so he uses puffers in conjunction with the antihistamine and nasal spray.

I have some super local honey (literally 5 minutes up the road) so I will try giving that to him.  I had planned on doing it with DS1 but he is super picky and wouldn't take it.  DS2 is more adventurous so I will give it a go.

Ok, I have a bit more hope here!   Will report back tomorrow with any changes.

Martha