did i just embarass myself and make a big stink for nothing?

[pumpernickel]

Ex and I have a 28month old ds together and weve been split since he was a year old. Last month we started occasional overnights and last night was the second one. Ex has a girlfriend who he met in July and they got serious pretty quickly and are currently in the throes of love. : When overnights started I was clear with ex that his gf was not to spend the night. He said he told her and she was disappointed but understood. Gf and I had lunch last week and she is very nice, we have alot in common... whatever. I picked ds up this morning and it was obvious that gf had spent the night. I sat down to nurse ds and I told them both that I was uncomfortable with her sleeping over there and thought it was inappropriate. I was surprised because i told ex this and he said he thought I meant with her sleeping in the bed with them. I said it should have been a given that that is completely out of line and that I meant at all. (He is full of it and I know he knew what I meant but im not surprised he is pulling this.) She is welcome to stay late but needs to go home to sleep. They said they thought it was no big deal, ds had fun she slept on the couch.... and that I was just making a fuss. I said that I felt that neither of us should have opposite sex overnight guests and that most child psych and dev specialists would agree. I pointed out that they've only even know each other 5months and that while they are committed to one another that its still very new. Overnights alone are just getting started. I didn't say this but if ex wants more I need see him doing this on his own and she is always there! And when shes not he comes to my house and they watch tv the whole time or he is calling me asking when im coming home. Anyway I felt bad and my voice was shaking and I made sure to tell gf that it wasn't her i think she is wonderful but I'm not comfortable with it and I even said at least not yet. I would not have an issue with them living together but until more time has gone by.... ex still thought that as long as ds seemed fine he didn't see the problem and I said even if he is fine now what if something happens between them? He asked gf what she thought and she said you guys are the parents which made we wish I had waited to talk to just ex but I still feel like it was good to tell her how I felt. And also, if ex needs me to be the bad guys because he cant stand up to her thats fine. Ex insinuated that i was being jealous and controlling and I said that I didn't think I was and that my talking calmly with both of them should prove that. I said I really felt that this was a reasonable request. Especially since its only 1 to 2 nights a month at this point. So.... am I being unreasonable? Do I need to pick my battles and let this one go? I left it at obviously I can't stop them from doing whatever they want but that I hoped they would respect this request. I hope that even if he isnt respectful that she might be or she how he is not...
Edited by pumpernickel - 12/19/10 at 12:32pm

[phathui5]

What is it about her staying over that makes you uncomfortable?

[carrierwright]

I would certainly say that is reasonable. If he really considered carefully I'm sure that he wouldn't want his toddler around some random man that you had only known for a few months for an overnight! This is a matter of psychological health and attachment issues. Separation is difficult enough on children w/o them having to reattach and lose their parent's love interests each time they change boy/girlfriends. I think you're being more than giving by not restricting their daytime interactions when baby is around! He's being immature and thinking like a man instead of as a father. There's a difference and good for you that you're keeping clear boundaries.

[mamadelbosque]

I have to say that I really don't "get" why he can't have overnight guests. Its his house. Its his kid too. What does it matter, exactly??

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by mamadelbosque 

I have to say that I really don't "get" why he can't have overnight guests. Its his house. Its his kid too. What does it matter, exactly??

Because there is no certainty that GF will be a long term fixture in his life and children need stability.  I think that its also a good thing to get the GF out of the way for a short time so he can spend time with his child alone...to actually pay attention to his child!  This won't happen with GF there.

So what if it is his house?  Should he be allowed all sorts of child unfriendly stuff for that reason?

I know that as a kid I would have had a freakout if either of my parents had done overnights with the girl/guy of the month.  Of course I was older, but having some time without the flavor of the month is really important.

[orangecanoe]

I'm not sure I get the emphasis on overnights either. If she leaves after your son has gone to sleep, it's not like he would know, right? If she's already spending time with your son and has said she respects that both of you are the parents, I'm not sure it gets better than that. If it were an older child, I might have a different opinion, but a 2.5 yo doesn't exactly have the same sense of time as older kids do. If you hadn't already agreed that partners wouldn't meet your DS for x amount of months at all, then I'm not sure this is something I would press the issue on. For me, my informal agreement is that it needs to be a relationship of 6 months or more on his end for a meeting/overnight to happen.

[pumpernickel]

Maybe I should have specified that I wanted advice from single parents who have dealt with this or might realistically deal with it in the future...

Anyway, yes it is his house. But it is OUR son and what involves our son is both our business no matter where it happens.

Also, we did have an agreement, informal, of 6 months of dating before introducing new partners. And then two weeks later she was there for every visit. Also, they have not even known each other 6 months and their short but passionate relationship has been up and down already. 

The reason I dont mind her staying late but want he to leave is because ex cosleeps with ds and I want him to eventually go into the bedroom with ds. I dont want ds getting up at 2 am and coming out to find dad in bed (even if its on the couch) with her. She can stay and hang out as my friends often do but if she is gone when he wakes up he will know she left to go home fore the night. My ds is very aware and knows whether or not someone has slept over if they are not there when he wakes up in the morning.

The reasons it bothers me are that I think it is unhealthy for my ds to spend so much time with someone who may or may not be in his life for the next year much less the next 6 months. And ex seems to only say he wants ds when she is around and I want know that he is doing this for him and ds and know because he is trying to prove to a woman that he is a good dad. She is doing the parenting/playing when ds is there and yes dad is involved but it is not the same when she is not there. I need to know that ex is capable without her around.

[pumpernickel]

Also overnights are a new thing for my ds and he is adjusting well but still shows signs that it is hard for him. That doesn't mean I think they should stop but I do want to know that exs attention is fully on ds at night to help him sleep and adjust to being away from me. 

[haydn'smommy]

I get ya, mama. This is why my parenting plan has that neither of us is to even introduce a new gf/bf until the divorce has been final for 6mos and with the stipulation that the other party is allowed to meet the new SO first and be provided with a full background check at the expense of the person who has the new SO. When the time comes, I plan to make sure that this new person will be someone who is safe to be around my kids and who is there for the long-term.

[la mamita]

Meh, my take on it is that your relationship with him is over, he is an adult and as long as he is parenting adequately and not placing your child in an unsafe situation, you've placed a restriction on him that is not binding and that he does not have to follow. Perhaps he did agree to it informally, but situations change and you don't have much ground to contest it--it's not like he has a different girl there every night. In court, I think you would just come off as the jealous ex and not get much sympathy.

My ex made me swear that I wouldn't have another relationship EVER in my life; his biggest worry was being replaced, blah blah...I put up with it as long as he went along with my request for custody and because he was being a total jealous psycho at the time and I wanted to get out as cleanly as possible, but that agreement did not last nor has he tried to call me out on 'breaking' our agreement as I am now engaged and have been in a serious relationship for a while now. Luckily, since getting over his depression, he's become normal and not a jealous psycho. Point for him.

That said, it irked me to no end once I found out that my ex was having his 'girlfriend' accompany him on visits with my kid, who is older (Kindergarten age). Primarily because a week earlier he had been asking me dating advice on a situation with a coworker of his and this girl was definitely not the coworker and claimed to be around for at least a few months. Mostly I just felt bad for the girl though, I didn't mention it at all to my ex nor do I feel it is harmful to my son. They have pretty infrequent time together (every other weekend usually, if my ex gets the money together for a visit) and the girl is around even less, so it's not like the girl is taking any parenting role away from me.

ETA: I think my take on this may be different as we do not have a 'co-parenting' relationship. I am my child's primary caregiver and have been since birth, I have full physical and legal custody with no mandated visitation. So we don't share a close relationship in which we are trying to continue to parent together. If that WAS the case, I still don't think I would make this my sticking point issue, but I would definitely be sharing my opinions with my ex and discussing how we would manage new relationships in the best interests of our child. I think in that case I would be willing to come up with some new guidelines or approaches, not just sticking to the original agreement you had mentioned, but I would hope that he would see the point about making sure your child is adjusting to the change well.

[4 in 2005]

Honestly I think you need to let it go.  However I think you need to make it clear that when ex has DS he needs to focus on DS.   My friend was in a similar relationship.  After less than one month they KNEW they were going to get married.  (He hadn't even filed the paperwork for his divorce yet... )  The problem wasn't the sleepovers, the problem was she was there overnight EVERY time that he had his girls.  He was not getting any time with his girls, it was always him, his girls and her daughter.  I told him that there was plenty of time when he didn't have his girls for her to spend the night.   (He has them Thursday afternoon to Sunday afternoon.) So I can see a valid reason to worry that DS is getting time with dad!  So the fact he only seems to want his son when she is there would concern me.  Could it be he doesn't quite trust his parenting skills? 

The truth be told if he is serious about this woman then it is best that your child get to know her.  I know things might not work out for them no relationship is for sure.  Maybe mention to him you concerns... about the fact he co-sleeps and you don't want your son to wake up alone, that you are worried about the fact that overnights are new and you want to make sure ds adapts well.  Maybe by seeing you have valid concerns and not just jealous they will be more inclined to meet you half way.  

It sounds like they are both willing to listen to you but don't quite grasp where you are coming from. 

[bluebunny]

I completely agree with you and don't think you are making a big deal for nothing.  It is extremely important for a child's psychological and emotional development to have stable parents and homelife.  The fact that this overnight visitation is new is just one of the issues.  I work in the family court system in my state and I have seen countless children who have been negatively impacted by having the parent's paramour in the home.  Lots of times there is no overt abuse, although that does occur occasionally, but many, many times the child resents the parent for having the paramour around and feels that the parent chose the paramour over the child.  This is especially true in short-term relationships or "revolving door" type situations. 

I have seen more than one family court judge order that the parent cannot have paramours sleep over unless they marry said paramour.  This might be more often here in the Bible belt but it is not uncommon for overnights with girlfriends/boyfriends specifically forbidden by court order (while overnight visitations are in progress). 

I imagine that you could find many child psychologists that agree with you!

(I'm not a single parent but I just saw this on the front page...hope you don't mind that I weighed in!)

[skimmilf]

I am a single parent, have been Ds's whole life (he is 12).

A couple summers ago when he went to spend the summer with his dad, Charles (the dad) had a new gf. I had never met her, found out most stuff I knew about her from her myspace page, FFS. She had moved from a different state to be with Charles. I wondered how it would go, and honestly I was freaked out....mostly about if Ds was going to have enough of his dad's attention, if there was enough room in the small space for him, etc.

What it boiled down to for me was this: I have never once, in all of Ds's life, asked Charles for his thoughts on my dating patterns, partners, sex life, or the relationship between ds and the people I have dated....and I would f-ing resent it if I had to do so. We are both adults, responsable for our own decisions WRT our relationships and how to approach it with our son. Given that, I felt like I needed to trust and respect Charles to govern his own love life and how it affects or son....and If I don't like what I see, then I speak up. (I never did speak up...it worked out fine. Deleana was very good with ds and eventually she and Charles broke up anyway). I WOULD say something if I felt ds was being upset or affected badly by Charles' decisions, but other then that....it's just not my place.

[Avani]

I'm pretty against overnights with random girlfriends. Kids do get attached to people and when they suddenly break up and disappear it can be really difficult for the child. And really if a dad only has his kid for one overnight a week couldn't he take that time to be alone with him? However you can't control your ex and more then likely a judge won't care unless you are in MI. Maybe you could ask for mediation and discuss it in front of a mediator?

[LVale]

So how long is an x partner supposed to go without a new partner?  Until the child is 18? How can someone put a limit on what the x is doing! 

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by la mamita 
 In court, I think you would just come off as the jealous ex and not get much sympathy.

Not necessarily, as those who have followed the drama with my ex the last 6 months have learned. Apparently there are some judges who do frown upon overnight guests of the opposite sex during the time the child is in the house AND will order it to not happen. Crazy, eh?

pumpkernickle- since it's not written in any court orders, I think you need to let it go. You said your thoughts, you made it known that you don't agree with it. That's all you can really do (unless you want to bring it to court, but there's no guarantee you'll get a Judge to agree with you... unless you move to Michigan and then I can give you the name of the perfect Judge ).

[SoulCakes]

I think it's a perfectly reasonable and well-thought-out request, but you have to realize that it's only just that -- a request. He and his girlfriend are both adults, presumably, and the decision is ultimately up to them. 

My ex and I had the no-introductions-for-6-months agreement -- which he broke with his very first girlfriend after we split. She was sleeping over after only a week or so of dating! I was livid and flipped out, and he very, very reluctantly put a stop to it. They broke up a few weeks later. A few months after that, he got a new girlfriend, and within a couple of weeks SHE was sleeping over. That's when I realized that I really didn't have any control over what he did, agreement or no. Worse, I realized that the agreement was really something that I thought was important, not something that he actually agreed with. Sigh. Anyway, he and that girl broke up, and he started dating someone new and BAM! they're not only living together within a month, but engaged! Our daughter was introduced to her new "mommy" and "sister" and two days after she came back home from visitation, they broke up. No, seriously. DD was in tears when she found out (she's only five), and it completely threw her for a loop. Ex and I had a very tense conversation in which I related to him that it was not supposed to be my job to pick up the emotional pieces that he wrecks with his short-lived girlfriends, and after seeing her in tears I hope (and pray!) that he FINALLY. GETS. WHY. the girlfriends shouldn't be introduced for 6 months. But if that isn't enough to get it through his skull that it's a bad idea? Then there's really nothing I can do. It's out of my hands. 

And so, I guess the point of this story is that it's out of your hands, too. However, I do think it's healthy and honest to tell your son's father how you feel about this and why. That certainly isn't a mistake. Just know that while you can encourage it, you can't enforce it.

Good luck!

[pumpernickel]

Originally Posted by LVale 

So how long is an x partner supposed to go without a new partner?  Until the child is 18? How can someone put a limit on what the x is doing! 

Come on... I said no where that I thought he should go without a new partner.

I am not being completely crazy about this. I will absolutely support them (and my son) when they decide to live together, I am not saying they have to get married for her to spend the night around my son. If my son had been having overnights with his dad for a few months and/or they had been dating for a year I would feel ridiculous to make this request but with both things being so new I really don't think its that much to ask that for 1-2 nights a month she not sleep over. 

I realize I have no legal recourse and really I don't want to get into the habit of running to court every time he does something I don't like. But I feel that as adults I should be able to make requests like this, and him of me as well. The fact that they don't have to but might anyway would speak volumes of their respect for me. 

I plan to drop the issue entirely. They know my wishes (both now, not just ex) and it will be interesting to see if they respect them or not. I KNOW ex knew what I meant about all of this, we had many conversations about it and at first I was surprised that she would so blatantly disrespect me, but then I realized he probably didn't even tell her. So now she knows and while I don't expect him to be respectful, I do expect her to be. I would be surprised if she continued to spend the night after this, at least for the next couple of months. I know I would stop if the rolls were reversed. I honestly like this woman and feel bad for her that she is getting wrapped up with my ex. I think it will be good for her to see if he urges her to spend the night still despite my request. 

I saw a post from a dad on another forum and he stated that regardless of any other reason the mere fact that it made his ex uncomfortable for his new gf to spend the night when their kids were there was enough for him. So every other weekend she goes home... no big deal! I wish that was my ex!

[Lisa1970]

You are completely in the right. If they were that committed, they would be married. I would be seriously concerned. I would not want someone who my ex was not married to to be spending that much time with my child. It will really hurt your little one if they break up and he loses someone that close to him...as in, what the girlfriend is becoming. Plus, since he seems to be relying on the gf for the little boy's care, he will not be as close to the little boy as he otherwise would have been. He can have a relationship, you are not asking that he wait until child is 18 to have a relationship. He just needs to leave the little boy out of it.

[Jessnet]

Are you sure they aren't quietly living together already? Plus, 5 months is pretty close to the 'standard' 6 months serious introduction clause.

I thought my ex was crazy for moving in with a girl after they were only dating a 2 months, but they're still together years later. Turns out it wasn't really two months - he had been cheating on me with her for more than a year!  So while I thought it was a crazy, impulsive, never last, new relationship, later on I found out it was a lot different in reality. You can only assume how serious two people are, but without being in a relationship with them you will never know for sure.

Anyway, I think you need to make this is more an issue about you wanting him to step up more as a father  (which is what you claim your underlying desire is anyway) . It would be much less confrontational to approach it from a point of your DS needing alone time to bond with Dad.

Approaching it with the focus on their sexual relationship and sleeping arrangements leads to questions about how attached you are to your ex. Already you have set up a situation where you are pitting your desire (for her not to spend the night) against the new girlfriends (she wants to spend the night) and making him choose between you two. I think trying to dictate when they can and can't spend the night with each other is setting yourself up on the receiving end of some serious resentment and strain on your (for now) peaceful co-parenting relationship.