normal 5 year sassiness? it's driving me nuts

[haleyelianasmom]

I just get totally irritated at her to the point that I know I snap at her over stupid things that I really shouldn't be mad about.  I'm not used to this new sassiness. 

Example, today she was doing a dance move, I said what it looked like, she started yelling at me "No!  that's not it!  you messed me up!  just stop talking!  that wasn't it, you were wrong!" and on and on until I sent her to bed.  Or if I tell her something she'll make an extreme version of it, like if I say, "move a bit away from your sister" she scoots 10 feet away, gives me a dirty look and says "is THIS good?" or if I tell her I'll make her food in a minute and she can't only eat candy, she rants about how she'll NEVER eat again and she'll starve and die. total drama

So, any ideas on how to handle this stuff?

[madskye]

How about a quiet talk at bedtime about treating you and others with respect?  I offered to paint DD's (5) nails yesterday and it spiraled into negativity because she was very rudely ordering me around.  We talked about it later and I told her that I have feelings, too, and that it hurts when she yells at me and orders me around.  I try to ask her politely when something is to be done, and I need the same courtesy.  She seemed to get it.  We'll see if it makes a difference today!

[pianojazzgirl]

Sounds like dd at that age.  The good news is now, at 6yo, we see this kind of behaviour waaaaay less.  I think it's a normal stage of development.  The best I could do was repeat repeat repeat that she needs to treat others with respect (sometimes long chats on the subject when not in the moment, sometimes short and sweet when in the moment), and work on "do overs" (when appropriate), where I'd help her find a different/acceptable way of getting her message across.  I also found I had to be sensitive to her new found sensitivity (if that makes sense).  So, there was a time when I would have been careful not to comment on her dance moves (even positively!) for example, because I knew she'd get bent out of shape.  It's like they go through a glimpse of the teen years around 5-6yo!!!

[haleyelianasmom]

I am hearing from other parents that this is normal and it's nice to hear, but I feel like she was way easier at 3 and 4 than at 5.  Like I occasionally get that parent negativity of not even wanting to deal with her because such a high percentage of our interactions are negative now.  Some days just hearing "MOM???" from her is enough to get an exasperated "WHAT DO YOU NEED NOW???" I need to keep us out to protect both of our sanities

2 other things that are killing me at this age.  Everything goes missing and she has zero ability to look for it.  For example, her ipod was gone and I was not happy about that, I kept telling her to look, she'd walk into another room for 30 seconds and come out saying "I looked".  um, no you didn't.  My husband found it in the bottom of her dress-up bin in a back pack under a bunch of other stuff.  yeah, makes no sense.

number 2, she has a serious case of the wiggles.  I don't remember quite as much energy at a younger age.  She used to have an attention span and be able to listen and sit to eat at least I think she did... now she needs to be constantly flipping and jumping and dancing and stretching and falling because she was stretching on the side of a chair, then knocking her food/drink over because she was too busy dancing.  I'm glad she enjoys dance and gymnastics, I was like that as a kid, too, but I wish she could stop wiggling for a minute when eating for example.

Maybe it's also that we're together all day (she does classes, but is homeschooled) but I don't feel I was this drained last year by her behavior. Maybe it is a flash of the teens.  yikes!

[verde]

Um...I mean this in the gentlest way...and maybe it's just me...but I am surprised that a 5 y/o has an ipod. Goodness knows that she will lose that ipod more than once. My 5y/o constantly loses her hat, her shoes, you name it. And just like yours, her attempts at "looking" for something is pretty lame.

I'm sincerely curious: how did you decide to let her have her own ipod?  

[hannybanany]

I don't have any advice, but wanted to say that my 5 yo is the same way! The attitude! She can NEVER FIND ANYTHING. And if I ask her to do something (get pajamas on): I can't do it, I'm never going to get dressed ever again!

I have to make a conscious effort to respond calmly, which can really be a challenge. Just wanted to let you know you're not alone :)

[Purplegal]

Sounds exactly like my 4 1/2 year old...she is driving me crazy!! TOTAL attitude response to anything I say to her. So yea...I'm there with you! I'm not one to give advice..I just talk to her over and over and over about talking nice to me and not using a rude voice, etc.

[What Next?]

DD just turned 6, and I've been seeing all of this since September - sassiness, incapability of looking for things, wiggliness, a lot of negativity.  Drives me crazy too!!!  Glad to hear it's normal.  I really thought I needed another major haul of library books.  I need to remember to use the do-over tactic - that's a great one!

For a while I thought she may be working through a personal growth issue.  But it keeps going on and on... if she's working on a new skill, I still haven't figured out what it is.

[Perdita_in_Ontario]

You just described my 5.5-year-old perfectly.

The complete inability to look for anything, the wiggles, the attitude, the over-the-top drama (and here I thought we had a budding thespian on our hands...) - yep, it's all here too. Combined with an into-everything 10-month old, yeah, I snap a lot. I'm not proud of it.

I'm constantly reminding her to speak with respect. That "um... yeah!" (spoken with that "duh!!" tone) is not an appropriate response. I model a more appropriate response, and we do do-overs. It's a work in progress.

My friend warned me about this, and told me she believed it was due to TV. But DD isn't allowed to watch anything more mature than Sesame Street, and I'm pretty sure they don't model attitude on SS, so it's either school, or just innate. Since your DD is homeschooled, that leaves "being 5".

Roll on 6... or 7...  :)

[haleyelianasmom]

lol how did I know this would be a response here?  First of all, she's had it for a year now and so far she has always been careful with it.  We have family 5 hours away and have had to make the drive several times in the past year and her having the ipod gives her something else to do.  Also helps when I need her to wait patiently somewhere, though she was singing along loudly so that was funny. When I was a kid, I had a record player, then a tape player and then a cd player.  My husband had a record player, too.  Well, being that record players are outdated, she has an ipod to listen to her own music.  I load music on for her to listen to with her friends, her dance music (she takes a lot of dance) and I'm going to put her suzuki music on there as well.  My guess is, it got lost because she was goofing with her friend while they were playing music together.  Generally it is something that is kept on our desk and we keep track of it ourselves for the most part (like if bringing it on a trip).  To be honest, we wouldn't thik twice about a 5 year old having a tape player in her room, I see the ipod as no different.  Believe me, dd watches almost no tv and rarely plays on the computer so she's not one of those screen addicted children, it was just something we wanted her to have for travel and listening to her own music at home :)
 

Originally Posted by verde 

Um...I mean this in the gentlest way...and maybe it's just me...but I am surprised that a 5 y/o has an ipod. Goodness knows that she will lose that ipod more than once. My 5y/o constantly loses her hat, her shoes, you name it. And just like yours, her attempts at "looking" for something is pretty lame.

I'm sincerely curious: how did you decide to let her have her own ipod?  

[haleyelianasmom]

good to hear it's normal.  Now to work on not snapping at her when she acts like this, and I'll be golden :D

[What Next?]

I don't buy the "TV" excuse - dd watches no TV at all, and this school year we've been so busy that our weekly Friday movie night has become a monthly movie night.  The only screen time she gets is SpellingCity.  I can't attribute drama and attitude to SpellingCity!  Really must be a 5-6 thing.

 

Originally Posted by Perdita_in_Ontario 

My friend warned me about this, and told me she believed it was due to TV.  

[4Marmalade]

Originally Posted by haleyelianasmom 

number 2, she has a serious case of the wiggles.  I don't remember quite as much energy at a younger age.  She used to have an attention span and be able to listen and sit to eat at least I think she did... now she needs to be constantly flipping and jumping and dancing and stretching and falling because she was stretching on the side of a chair, then knocking her food/drink over because she was too busy dancing.  I'm glad she enjoys dance and gymnastics, I was like that as a kid, too, but I wish she could stop wiggling for a minute when eating for example.

My dd is 5-1/2 and while we do have the attitude and "talking back" the constant wiggling is driving me crazy too.  She is constantly falling out of chairs, hanging upside down on her bed, jumping around, etc...  We just finished cleaning up a whole bowl of spaghetti from the floor because she was squirming in her chair, twirled and hit it with her elbow.  Sigh....  It is non-stop.  

[ihathi]

This whole thread is hugely therapeutic for me.  My 5.5 y/o DS has been driving me *crazy* recently!  We have to talk everyday (usually multiple times in a day) about the importance of speaking to others with respect.  We also have to remind him that the 2 y/o is supposed to learn behavior from him, not the other way around!  I could swear he has more toddler-like tantrums now than at any other age.  What has made it worse for us is that I recently started working full-time, which has inevitably made me feel the poor behavior is somehow related to my absence.

I feel terrible for how many times in a week I'm tempted to say something about missing the olden days when DS was *good*.    I give myself credit for stopping just short of this...
 

[madskye]

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I feel terrible for how many times in a week I'm tempted to say something about missing the olden days when DS was *good*.    I give myself credit for stopping just short of this...
 

 I know.  DH and I were watching old Christmas videos of our family the other night and joking about how great it was when DD was non-verbal.  Not good or bad, just not able to talk!!!!!  We didn't know how good we had it then!

[haleyelianasmom]

lol that made me laugh a little.  We had to clean a bunch of V8 from the carpet because she decided to do her dance stretches across the dining room chairs while drinking.  really?!?!
 

Originally Posted by 4Marmalade 

Originally Posted by haleyelianasmom 

number 2, she has a serious case of the wiggles.  I don't remember quite as much energy at a younger age.  She used to have an attention span and be able to listen and sit to eat at least I think she did... now she needs to be constantly flipping and jumping and dancing and stretching and falling because she was stretching on the side of a chair, then knocking her food/drink over because she was too busy dancing.  I'm glad she enjoys dance and gymnastics, I was like that as a kid, too, but I wish she could stop wiggling for a minute when eating for example.

My dd is 5-1/2 and while we do have the attitude and "talking back" the constant wiggling is driving me crazy too.  She is constantly falling out of chairs, hanging upside down on her bed, jumping around, etc...  We just finished cleaning up a whole bowl of spaghetti from the floor because she was squirming in her chair, twirled and hit it with her elbow.  Sigh....  It is non-stop.  

[hannybanany]

Originally Posted by ihathi 

 I could swear he has more toddler-like tantrums now than at any other age.   

Yes! She's worse than my two year old.

I'm another one who doesn't believe this behavior is related to tv. We record two tv shows: Clifford and Franklin. I thought maybe starting school right after her birthday had something to do with it, maybe not...

[ihathi]

Yep, no TV in our house either... We watch a movie once a week, but we've been doing that for several years now...

As of this week, I'm working really hard on just not reacting so strongly to DS1's tantrums--it's hard though...  When a 2 y/o has a tantrum, I feel like I understand it as a part of normal development.  I understand that the 2 y/o really has lost control and needs support to pull it back together.  I understand that this can even be scary for a toddler and this understanding gives me patience.  Now, when the 5 y/o has a tantrum, I just don't know what to think--it *feels* like he should know how to pull himself back together since he's been doing it for *years* now!  KWIM? 

Deep breaths...

Originally Posted by hannybanany 

Originally Posted by ihathi 

 I could swear he has more toddler-like tantrums now than at any other age.   

Yes! She's worse than my two year old.

I'm another one who doesn't believe this behavior is related to tv. We record two tv shows: Clifford and Franklin. I thought maybe starting school right after her birthday had something to do with it, maybe not...

[haleyelianasmom]

My daughter is currently wailing in our bedroom because she was trying to draw a puppy and had a hard time.  I drew one for her and made a quick lesson for her, hten gave her hugs and took her to take a break in our room so she didn't get too frustrated, but I guess that didn't help.

Yesterday she ran off to her bedroom, slammed the door, and shrieked for several minutes straight because we had a friend over and the little girl (who is not quite 2) was eating some of H's breakfast.  It was maybe 1 or 2 and not only had the cheerios and peeled clementine been sitting out untouched for hours (though she claimed she did grab a couple handfuls after lunch), but we also had MANY more of both and she was free to share with her little friend.  So when I said it was fine, all hell broke loose.  She also screamed something about never eating again, then came back and said "my elf told me that bad people who steal breakfasts should have their hands tied and go to jail."  when I pressed her on this, she said that no, that little girl was not a bad person and it was just something her ELF told her.  Her elf also told her to snoop through the presents the other day.  Even after asking her over and over, she wouldn't own up to the fact that it was actually just her.

I think the hardest part is the fact that she's gone so much backwards.  i used to be so proud that she was polite and sweet and kind and had a good attention span and interest level.  Now she just whines about seeing other kids or watching tv or wanting sugar.  She'll end her violin lesson whining that she wants lunch and wants to see her friends.  It seriously sometimes feels like she would be happier if I were dead and her days were nothing but candy, tv, crappy toys, and friends.  And to be honest, most days she doesn't watch any tv at all.

[One_Girl]

I usually stay calm and don't react, sometimes I have to make myself respond with a detached "okay whatever you choose" when dd makes extreme angry comments.  If she wants more time with friends I think you should look into how you can help that happen.  Maybe she just needs time away from the people she has to live with day in and day out because you guys are on her nerves right now.  My dd and I both want space from each other sometimes and a day to just do our own thing really refreshes both of us.  When I was a kid my mom was very controlling, there was always a right and wrong way, and I felt very stifled and reacted by having extreme fits so she would leave me alone and I could have peace from her and her and the constant pressure.  I loved my mom very much but I also needed a break from time to time and that was my only way to get one.  I don't think your daughter would be happy without you there, but it sounds like she would be happy if she could take a break from some activities and just focus on fun for a while.  I think that when kids have a sudden shift like this in their reactions they are more likely to be reacting to the situation and their feelings about it so they can be heard than they are to be giving the message that they hate their parents.