My daughter does not budge

[hani]

I have a 30 months old daughter. She is very affectionate and gives us hugs and kisses all the time. However, when she wants something she will stand her ground and will cry and scream to get what she wants. If we ask her to do something like putting on her pyjamas, it must always end in tears. She loves her dresses and always wants to go to bed in a dress. Last night, it was really cold and she wanted to wear a summer dress, I told her to wear a jacket or a top underneath the dress so that she would not be cold. She refused and after failing to gently convince her, I gave her a time out for not behaving. It was painful but she cried for 40 minutes and still refused to wear nothing else but the dress. My husband and I had to hold her and make her wear her top. And she was fine for a while (maybe one hour) until she decided she's had enough with the top and I finally gave in.\

This morning, the weather was awful and I asked her to put her jacket on, she said no Jacket!!! and she was determined not to wear it. She was only wearing a thin dress and I ussually send her to child care in the morning. I take the bus to childcare and catch another bus to work and we walk to the bus stop every morning. It was freezing and I was worried about her, she would not even let me wrap in her in a blanket. She wanted to wear THE DRESS and nothing but the DRESS. I stopped at the mall and took her to a corner and told her that she has to wear her jacket. I gave her another time out and thought that she would listen to me this time. We were there for almost an hour and she cried and screamed and repeated her demands "No jacket!!!!!"

 There were so many people and I was so embarrassed, I felt like a bad mother. She kept asking me to hold her and hug her and I said that I would only do that if she wears her jacket. People were offering help and asked her to put her jacket on, she grabbed her jacket from them and ran and threw it on the floor. Nothing would change her mind... and after a long exhausting battle, I gave in. I stayed in the mall untill she was calm. One lady saw that I was in distressed, she came and gave her a lollypop and within a minute managed to get her to wear her jacket.

I caught the bus and was late to work :(

I do pick my battles and I am not too strict with her, but it is getting very hard to make her do what we want. She usually laughs about her time outs later and will tell her father and I that "I was naughty and mama and daddy gave me time out" jokingly.

I hate giving her time outs, but what other options do I have? and even time outs do not seem to work anymore with her. We reason with her and I am very patient, but she is a very determined lilttle girl. HELP!!

[Llyra]

I mean this in the gentlest possible way (I've been there, and I know how hard it can be-- my DD1 is six now, and is hard-headed!)--- I think you need to stop giving in. I think she's learned that if she holds out long enough, she will eventually get what she wants. I would imagine that if you made up your mind to consistently stand YOUR ground, and waited out the protests-- no matter how long they take-- she'd start to figure out that it's not worth protesting. It may take quite a few times-- she's learned from several past experiences that she needs to protest long and hard to win-- but eventually if you stick to it, you'll likely see a change.

In a public place-- after a few minutes, we'd be heading out to the car. I'd buckle the child in, and then sit in the front seat and wait until the child was calm and ready to listen, and then I'd repeat my original demand.

I don't think timeouts are going to help much-- they aren't logically related in any way to the problem, really, and at her age, I don't think they're all that effective in any case. I would just stick to my guns-- say she's going to do it, and then refuse to budge, no matter how dramatically or long she protests.

[BreakfastyMichele]

(((hugs, mama)))

I agree on the timeouts--not helping!--but I'd go the other way.  Unless it's dangerous (e.g. putting her at risk for frostbite,) let her wear what she wants.  I've found that my daughter knows when she's cold, and she'll add layers.  Yes, she sometimes looks ridiculous, and at times I'd prefer that she wear more, less or different clothes.  But I have to file the clothing choices under Not A Big Deal.

When it IS a big deal (frostbite,) do not give in.  But do be gentle.  Remind her that it is an issue of safety, and when not facing sub-zero weather she can make her own decisions.

I know it's tough, though.

[Tjej]

It does sound like she knows that the harder she pushes, the more likely she'll eventually get what she wants.  I generally do not discuss things with my kids if they are screaming/carrying on.  I will have a "time out/time in" of sorts, where they need to calm down before we can talk about whatever.  I find it useless to discuss with someone who is screaming or weeping.  They calm down, we discuss.  I really try not to have calming down be a punishment, but instead a criteria for moving on. 

It sounds to me like your DD might need less choice/control right now.  I have found that with my kids, when they were that age (DS still is), when they got overwhelmed with too many choices they'd bicker about all of them.  When I just decided stuff more (and empathized when they didn't like my choice, but stuck with it), life got a lot better for all of us.  Child was generally happier, and I was too.

Walking on eggshells with kids is ridiculous.  I know that every once in a while I realize that I'm tiptoe-ing around a topic or situation with my kids.  When I realize it, I change that.  We talk about it and I figure out the plan, and I stick to it.  Like for fights over clothes - it was crazy with my DD, so I said enough was enough and I was deciding what she'd wear.  She was upset for a day or two and then all was great.  And now that she is older she has say again.  BUT for probably a year there I had to take that decision back because it just ended up in her throwing fits and changing her mind and being upset about clothes.

HTH

Tjej

[Petie1104]

Just a few suggestions...

Put away summer clothes where she cannot see them or reach them.  This way they don't even appear to be an option.

If she wants to walk out in the cold with no coat, chances are when she is cold, she will put it on.  And if you only have appropriate options available, it shouldn't be as much of an issue. 

Are PJ's really that important?  I know different people have different standards, but to me, pj's are not something for us to get upset about.  If it is an issue in your home, how about finding her some nightgowns rather than pants and shirt.  That way she gets to wear a "dress" to bed. 

I have a wonderful concept of avoiding the situations that cause tantrums.  Give choices whenever possible, "Honey do you want to wear the red jacket, or the pink jacket" "do you want the pink pjs or the purple pj's" etc etc etc.

[mom2grrls]

How is she sleeping?  Although I know at this age they really like to wear certain things over and over getting so upset over the jacket says to me she may be a bit overtired.  I agree with others though, take the summer clothes out of the closet or dresser if you don't want her to wear them and have long sleeved dresses and even some thick tights or legwarmers to wear underneath.  Perhaps just bring her jacket/hat/gloves in a bag for when she does get chilly.  I know my son(6) has always preferred no jacket or just a heavier sweatshirt rather than a winter coat.

[nd_deadhead]

With my twins, I didn't consdier that age to be "the terrible twos", but the "age of frustration". They want to do EVERYTHING, but don't always have the gross motor skills, fine motor control, or communication skills to do what they want. At that same time, they DO have increasing control over their bodies and their environments, and the more they have, the more they want! It is extremely frustrating to be a 2-yr-old. That makes it extremely frustrating to be a 2-yr-old's parent!

She throws fits because they work for her. In behavioral psychology, the reward system that gets the most response is intermittent reward - so giving in to a tantrum once in a while will create the greastest number of tantrums. Ignore them completely, and eventually they will go away - BUT they will probably get worse before they get better, because she is going to keep trying to get you to give in. But you have to believe me - set a strict policy in the house that Fits Don't Work, and stick to it. I could sometimes make a game out of it with my boys: "If you yell and scream loud enough, do you think I'll change my mind? Go ahead, give it a try!" I'd get them to yell louder, until it was just plain silly, then I'd concentrate really hard - and say "Nope, I haven't changed my mind - you still have to do X (or you still can't do X)".

As others said, eventually she'll figure out that when you say something, you mean business, and you will follow through. That's actually a comfprtable thing for a toddler - they want and need someone to be in charge, and they get a sense of security from knowing that some rules are always the same. It's confusing for them when the rules change from day to day "Am I going to have to wear my coat today or not?"

My kids are teenagers, and we often talk about how the right decisions are not usually the easy decisions. Giving in to tantrums is easier in the short term, but as you have seen, it is not very effective long-term.

Good luck, and hang in there - it DOES get easier!

[mamazee]

If something doesn't really and truly need to happen, I wouldn't even get into a power struggle over it.  She doesn't want to wear PJs to bed? Let her sleep naked then.  Put on an extra blanket. Not worth a fight.  I wouldn't even start a fight over that.

But if something really and truly needs to happen, I wouldn't discuss it or punish to make her do it, I'd just physically make it happen.  Like my dd has to be strapped into her car seat.  She doesn't always want to get strapped into the car seat.  I don't ask her permission to do it, I don't ask if she wants me to do it, I just physically do it.  If she gets upset, I don't get upset back, I just briefly empathize "You don't like the carseat straps" and keep doing it.  Maybe, "Sorry sweetie, but I have to keep you safe while we drive."  Gentle voice so as not to escalate things.

If it isn't cold enough to be dangerous, I would let her not wear the coat and then carry it so if she gets cold she can wear it.  But I live someplace cold, and if it were that cold, I'd just put the coat on her without asking her permission.  I'd empathize, "I'm sorry baby but I can't let you get too cold."  But if it were dangerously cold and we had to go out, I'd just put the coat on her.

But I would avoid any power struggles that were not so important I wouldn't force it to happen.  If it isn't important enough to force, then it isn't worth the power struggle.  Getting into power struggles with kids this age is like the old Mark Twain quote: "Never wrestle with a pig,  You both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it."

[Marsupialmom]

1. I would make sure there is no summer dresses available for her to wear.

2.  Let her get cold.  Bring her jacket.  

3.  PJ's are not necessary.  As long as she isn't wearing something that could be a choking hazard.  Just make sure she has an extra blanket or PJ's to put on if she is cold. 

[LessTraveledBy]

Please, please rethink that one. She was asking for help to connect (exatly what is needed in a situation like the one you described) and to calm herself. You chose to teach her that mommy loves her when she is doing what mommy wants. I am sure that you did not mean it that way, but that is how it comes across. Sometimes a hug (and maybe crying) can change even the worst of situations.

I think you got really good advice here about just taking the coat with, etc. You need more connection in those situations, not time-outs which are the opposite of feeling connected and loved.
 

Originally Posted by hani 
She kept asking me to hold her and hug her and I said that I would only do that if she wears her jacket.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Its a really common thing at that age to not want to wear clothing that we adults think they need to keep them warm.

She is not going to freeze or die or catch pneumonia.

Carry the coat for her, put an extra blanket on the bed, whatever works. Really, these issues are not worth the trauma you and she are going through. In a year or two she'll be better at wearing whatever her body needs. Trust her.

[LynnS6]

One thing I'd add is that children this age need to EXPERIENCE the consequence in order to get this. When my dd was this age, we were visiting relatives in Minnesota. She wanted to go outside and play in 5 degree weather without a coat on. We walked outside, she stood for 30 seconds and realized the need for the coat, hat and mittens. We never had that argument again. I wouldn't have let her stay out there long, but I knew she wasn't going to get hypothermia in 5 minutes.

I'd give up completely on the pjs. Dd owns two pairs of pjs that she wears only after she's had a bath (which only happens about once a week). Otherwise, she sleeps in her clothes. She's VERY hot blooded and will run around in far less clothing than I feel I need. When she was little, I'd carry a coat. Right now she's 6, and other than thinking I should send in a note to school explaining that she does own an appropriate winter coat and chooses to wear her hoodie instead, I've given up.

Originally Posted by Tjej 

It does sound like she knows that the harder she pushes, the more likely she'll eventually get what she wants.  I generally do not discuss things with my kids if they are screaming/carrying on.  I will have a "time out/time in" of sorts, where they need to calm down before we can talk about whatever.  I find it useless to discuss with someone who is screaming or weeping.  They calm down, we discuss.  I really try not to have calming down be a punishment, but instead a criteria for moving on. 

It sounds to me like your DD might need less choice/control right now.  I have found that with my kids, when they were that age (DS still is), when they got overwhelmed with too many choices they'd bicker about all of them.  When I just decided stuff more (and empathized when they didn't like my choice, but stuck with it), life got a lot better for all of us.  Child was generally happier, and I was too.

I agree totally.

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie 

Its a really common thing at that age to not want to wear clothing that we adults think they need to keep them warm.

She is not going to freeze or die or catch pneumonia.

Carry the coat for her, put an extra blanket on the bed, whatever works. Really, these issues are not worth the trauma you and she are going through. In a year or two she'll be better at wearing whatever her body needs. Trust her.

Yep.
 

[mamamiabeans]

Oh hani, this sounds just like my daughter!  She is anti-pants and coats and is so strong-willed about certain things!  It is still a work in progress, but I've found that picking my battles (which it sounds like you do) is a big component of what has been working.  We discuss a compromise (not in the middle of a tantrum, but after the fact) and try to agree on what to do.  For example, we have a garage, so I let her get into the car with just a sweater on.  Then I tell her that when we get to the store and we get out of the car, she has to put her coat on.  Sometimes I open the door and let her feel how cold it is and then she'll want to wear it.  Sometimes it works like a charm and sometimes it is still a battle (like today).

I also have a deal with her that she can wear dresses but has to wear leggings or tights with them.  It has been working, but definitely pack up her summer dresses so that they are out of sight.   And with the pajamas issue, my daughter has agreed to wear the top but no pants.  Some nights I will put the pants in her bed and they will be on when she wakes up in the morning.  All of that has been working for the most part, but there is always something that comes up where I can't break her and she gets fixated on something.  I've been reading "Raising Your Spirited Child" and I have have been enjoying the way that the author explains kids like ours.  I think that my daughter and it sounds like your daughter are really strong willed and that will end up being a good quality.  It is just so hard dealing with it while there are 2.  I think what is comes down to is that you have to adjust your parenting to their temperament. I don't think that it is a matter of you "giving in" or not having structure.  I think it is a matter of you finding out the best way to deal with her temperament so that you can respect it, yet keep her safe and give her limits.   

I completely feel your pain and know that it is that much harder to deal with when you are running late, trying to get to work, etc.  You are doing great and I wish you luck!!

[dogretro]

Also, might I suggest practicing some of this, such as putting the coat on and leaving the house, when you do not actually have anywhere to go?  Put her coat on and leave the house just to go for a walk or something.  This way you can get her more used to Mommy meaning business when you are not crunched for time.

I rotate my kids's clothes seasonally.  We do not have summer clothes in the closet during the winter.  DD1 is free to choose whatever she likes to wear b/c I know that all of it is seasonally appropriate.  And I like all of it since I picked it all out, hehe.  There is no way in hobbildyhoo that I would tolerate an hour-long tantrum where I tried to get my kid to put her jacket on.  Either I would convince her to wear it, I would stuff her into it, or I would just carry the dang jacket and leave.  I do not have time for that nonsense!

[LemonPie]

I agree with LessTraveledBy.  I have a 5 yo who requests hugs when she's in the throes of a tantrum.  It's usually just what she needs to sort of re-center herself and re-connect with me.  I know you were in a difficult and frustrating situation, but please reconsider the use of affection as a reward for good behavior.  She needs your love and support as she makes both good and bad choices and learns from her consequences. 
 

Originally Posted by LessTraveledBy 

Please, please rethink that one. She was asking for help to connect (exatly what is needed in a situation like the one you described) and to calm herself. You chose to teach her that mommy loves her when she is doing what mommy wants. I am sure that you did not mean it that way, but that is how it comes across. Sometimes a hug (and maybe crying) can change even the worst of situations.

I think you got really good advice here about just taking the coat with, etc. You need more connection in those situations, not time-outs which are the opposite of feeling connected and loved.
 

Originally Posted by hani 
She kept asking me to hold her and hug her and I said that I would only do that if she wears her jacket.

[mommatooth]

Last Wednesday, my daughter managed her way into the "scrap clothes that get cut up and turned into something else" box and emerged wearing an adult babydoll t-shirt that reads "drink michigan beer" in purple, her favorite.  It was a morning we were getting ready for preschool- yep she wanted to wear that cute little logo (from a friend, who is a brewer) to school.  There were no pictures of beer, nothing offensive to a 3 year old so what to do, how to explain?  I let her wear it.  She was thrilled, I put the box somewhere else and her teacher probably got a good laugh.  No Blood.  Everybody happy.  I have really had to let A TON of things just drift on by.  I agree wholeheartedly with the pick your battles mamma, mostly I let he be her and if it is a dealbreaker, we don't discuss- I might explain, but we don't discuss.

[mamamiabeans]

Love it, mommatooth!

[Pen_esque]

I am dealing with a similar problem and I agree with this:
 

Originally Posted by LemonPie 

I know you were in a difficult and frustrating situation, but please reconsider the use of affection as a reward for good behavior.  She needs your love and support as she makes both good and bad choices and learns from her consequences.

One thing I have found is that when DD (26mo) resists me putting on a garment, if I accept her refusal and try again in a few minutes, distracting her with a book or a shiny thing, there's a fighting chance that I'll get the garment on her. I'd say that works about 60 percent of the time. But her clothing aversion seems to be growing in frequency and intensity and I'm at a loss.

It's becoming a real problem, as I missed work one day last week because of this. It's a 30 min walk to get where I'm going and it's too cold to take her out in just knickers and a t-shirt, and she would not get dressed.

But one thing I don't do is force her. DH tried forcing clothes onto her screaming and kicking little body which was just horrible. I feel like it's teaching her that physical force is an acceptable way to get what you want. Unless it's a safety thing, like snatching her up if she were to step in the road, I don't use physical force with her. DH and I are still talking about this as it's a big problem for me that he did that and he feels like it's no big deal and she'll get over it. Thing is, she can just pull the clothes right back off anyway and I feel she was really shaken by his use of force and it still didn't get me out the door.

Next time I'll try wrapping a blanket around her in the mei tai and putting the clothes in a bag.

Actually, I remember now that I did try to get her in the MT, but that she was too freaked out by then and was arching her back and wailing and it just wasn't working. Sigh.

Edited by Pen_esque - 12/26/10 at 3:25pm

[peaceful_mama]

lots of good ideas.  Here's one I haven't seen suggested yet.  For the coat-wearing, use a thermometer.  Either use a real one that she can see at a window and put an arrow or some sort of mark at the point where she needs a coat.  Red above, no coat, red below, wear the coat.  *IT* makes the decision, not you, and SHE can "read" it....that kind of psychology works great with a lot of kids rather than hearing a dictate from an adult.

or if you don't have a spot where she can see a real one, make something, watch the weather, and set it when she doesn't see you.

instead of a mark or arrow, you could use a picture of her in her coat, the coat, whatever, that works too and might be fun for her.