I know I'm not supposed to say or even think this...

[SollysMom]

...but sometimes I think my 3 y/o is just a little a-hole. (I preface this post by saying that I am frustrated and venting)

I feel like we're always making excuses for his behavior.  "He must have an ear infection."  "He didn't have a nap today."  "He needs to poop."  "He didn't get enough time with Daddy today."  "He's just not ready for structured activities yet."  etc. etc.  Some of these may be valid reasons, but I feel like when there's always an excuse, sometimes it's a bigger problem.  So either he's an a-hole or there's something wrong with how we're raising him.

Here are some of the behavioral problems and how I try to deal with them...

1) He's horrible at sharing.  More than I believe is typical.  Today, he almost pushed/hit a 1.5y/o at the library because he didn't want to share, and that's not an uncommon occurrence.  On a semi-regular basis I need to put toys away or drag him out of somewhere kicking and screaming because he can't play nicely.  I try to encourage him to share by getting down to his level, explaining that there's enough for everyone to play with some or that so-and-so gets to take a turn too.  If he's taken a toy from another child I immediately take it away and give it back.  If he continues to not share, I remove him from the situation either by just leaving (if we're out somewhere) or going into the other room with him (not a time-out) and trying to distract/redirect.

2) He tortures DS2.  Usually with regards to sharing toys, but sometimes seemingly for no reason at all he'll push or hit DS2.  (I've posted about this issue on the GD forum)

3) He throws tantrums at the drop of a hat.  He is very particular/OCD (gets it from my husband) and if something isn't exactly how he wants it, he gets more and more frustrated until we have to just remove him from the situation.  We try to talk him off the ledge before it gets too bad, but usually we have to put away the toy that's upsetting him ("your blocks are supposed to be fun but right now they're only making you angry, so we're going to put them away") or just dragging him out to the car if we're out somewhere.

4) He hits DH and me a lot too when he's angry/frustrated, or when we tell him something he doesn't want to hear.  We calmly tell him "No hits" and "Mama likes hugs, not hits" and sometimes we get more forceful (not hitting him back, obviously) but nothing seems to work.

I know most of these sound typical for a 3-year-old, but it's worse with him than most kids I know.  We go to library Story Times, My Gym, etc, so I see lots of other kids his age.  One mom at the library even told me once that he was known around town for his screaming.  Even in my AP playgroup, the other kids are much better behaved than him. 

He was such a pleasant, easy baby up until the time he turned 1 or slightly after.  Then it seemed he just went crazy!  Don't get me wrong, he can still be pleasant and adorable and fun and cute, and will sometimes go stretches for weeks or even months being pretty good.  But then the crazy in him reappears.  I've gotten better at dealing with it, especially in public, but there was a stretch right before DS2 was born that I felt like everywhere I took him ended up a disaster, with both of us in tears and me carrying him out to the car kicking, screaming, and hitting me.  That still happens sometimes, but now I'm able to keep my composure better and act like I'm in control of the situation.  Sometimes I have to carry him upside down out to the car because it's the only way to prevent him from hitting me in the face.

Please help.  I know parenting isn't supposed to be easy and all kids have their moments, but I feel like some of these issues are preventing me from enjoying our relationship as much as I could/should be.  I'm in tears now even writing this.  Thanks in advance for any replies.

[sapphire_chan]

Have you considered an evaluation? Odds are, he's just fine and simply needs to grow a bit, but it might be that there's something going on where therapy could help.  He seems to have a lot of interactions that involve touching people, which can be a sensory seeking thing. Yelling is also a sensory seeking behavior.

Something else to consider is if there's any effect of various foods on his moods?

You might also have luck with books about highly sensitive children.

[kindchen]

Does he get enough outside time every day? Could it be that all the activities like story time, playgroup, my gym are a bit much for him? Those things involve so much interaction with other kids and the need to follow rules, etc. Maybe what he really needs is more playground/backyard time and less inside/structured time.

It might be that you only see other kids who are more compliant, etc, because those are the kids whose parents take them to those types of activities. I don't go to story times because my kids (2 & 3y.o.) don't do well there, and I feel like taking them is setting them up to fail. Plus, it is supposed to be fun, so if it isn't, we're not going. We do mostly one-on-one playdates, playground time, reading at home, running around the yard, etc. 

[sapphire_chan]

Ooo, good point! How are things at the playground?

[jess152]

I hear ya! My 3 (almost 4) year old sounds much like yours.  I think alot of it is normal behaviour, frustrating as it is.  Not having a nap is a very valid excuse I think most moms can relate to!

Saying that the other kids at playgroup are better behaved...you only see them for an hour or two. They are just not sharing or having their tantrums or meltdowns elsewhere, I think!  Don't feel badly about that. And what the mom at the library said; that's just mean. Why would someone say something like that? My mom does story time at the library and she tells me some kids are into it and some would rather run around. It's no big drama, they are children after all. I would try and forget it, if I were you.

As for how he treats his DS...I still think normal! They are figuring out what they can get away with, maybe exerting a little big brother 'muscle'.  Unless it's dangerous, I wouldn't worry too much.  I watch my two boys and if the big one is doing something the younger one doesn't like, it will end 2 ways; the baby in tears, or the baby moves on to something else. They are forging a lifelong relationship and getting to know eachother. It won't all be puppies and rainbows and handholding!

[elisheva]

It's the age. I was ready to sell mine to the gypsies a few months back. Daily broken skin bites to ds2. Refusing to share. Racing around the library flying his plane at storytime. When my parents came from Michigan for a visit, he THREW BLOCKS AT THEM. We were making excuses, too. I'd like to say we hit on something that worked, but it really is just the age. He turned 4 a few weeks ago and it has gotten MUCH better. The one thing I can pinpoint that seemed to mark the change was giving him responsibility in an area he really enjoyed. We made it his job to collect the eggs and give the chickens their scratch. He loved having the "big boy" work and it made me realize that we were still treating him like a toddler and not like the big boy he felt he was.

Hang in there. Growing pains are hard.

[SollysMom]

Thank you all so much for the replies.  I typed out a long response yesterday, then just as I clicked Submit the site went down for maintenance and I lost it all!

 

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

Have you considered an evaluation? Odds are, he's just fine and simply needs to grow a bit, but it might be that there's something going on where therapy could help.  He seems to have a lot of interactions that involve touching people, which can be a sensory seeking thing. Yelling is also a sensory seeking behavior.

Something else to consider is if there's any effect of various foods on his moods?

You might also have luck with books about highly sensitive children.

I have briefly considered an evaluation, but I'm afraid to bring it up with my husband.  He thinks in general that kids are overdiagnosed these days.  Our nephew supposedly has sensory issues and ADHD, but my husband thinks that's BS and it's just a combination of normal behavior and bad parenting choices.

Food could definitely be a culprit.  He still nurses a lot so I tend not to worry too much about the solids in his diet, but it's far from ideal.
 

Originally Posted by kindchen 

Does he get enough outside time every day? Could it be that all the activities like story time, playgroup, my gym are a bit much for him? Those things involve so much interaction with other kids and the need to follow rules, etc. Maybe what he really needs is more playground/backyard time and less inside/structured time.

It might be that you only see other kids who are more compliant, etc, because those are the kids whose parents take them to those types of activities. I don't go to story times because my kids (2 & 3y.o.) don't do well there, and I feel like taking them is setting them up to fail. Plus, it is supposed to be fun, so if it isn't, we're not going. We do mostly one-on-one playdates, playground time, reading at home, running around the yard, etc. 

When it's warm out, we go to the park every day.  Since it's been cold and snowy, I admit I've been bad about bundling them up and taking them out to play in the snow.  We did cancel My Gym because he doesn't seem ready for the structured classes, and we got a membership to a bounce house where he can free-play and burn off energy, and that's been working out great.

At the library, there's a children's room right outside the storytime room so I can let him play at the train table there while I take DS2 to storytime, and I can still watch him if I sit on the end.  Sometimes he chooses to come in to storytime with us and does just fine.  Sometimes I'll bring in a puzzle or something and he can sit in back to play with it, but I often find him turning around to listen to the stories.  That's why I chose this library, because we have some options.

With him, getting out of the house for ANYTHING is key.  Even a trip to Wegmans.  If we stay home all day, his behavior is significantly worse. 

Originally Posted by jess152 

I hear ya! My 3 (almost 4) year old sounds much like yours.  I think alot of it is normal behaviour, frustrating as it is.  Not having a nap is a very valid excuse I think most moms can relate to!

Saying that the other kids at playgroup are better behaved...you only see them for an hour or two. They are just not sharing or having their tantrums or meltdowns elsewhere, I think!  Don't feel badly about that. And what the mom at the library said; that's just mean. Why would someone say something like that? My mom does story time at the library and she tells me some kids are into it and some would rather run around. It's no big drama, they are children after all. I would try and forget it, if I were you.

As for how he treats his DS...I still think normal! They are figuring out what they can get away with, maybe exerting a little big brother 'muscle'.  Unless it's dangerous, I wouldn't worry too much.  I watch my two boys and if the big one is doing something the younger one doesn't like, it will end 2 ways; the baby in tears, or the baby moves on to something else. They are forging a lifelong relationship and getting to know eachother. It won't all be puppies and rainbows and handholding!

Thank you for empathizing!  It's hard to believe others are going through it to the same extent when I don't get to witness it. 

Originally Posted by elisheva 

It's the age. I was ready to sell mine to the gypsies a few months back. Daily broken skin bites to ds2. Refusing to share. Racing around the library flying his plane at storytime. When my parents came from Michigan for a visit, he THREW BLOCKS AT THEM. We were making excuses, too. I'd like to say we hit on something that worked, but it really is just the age. He turned 4 a few weeks ago and it has gotten MUCH better. The one thing I can pinpoint that seemed to mark the change was giving him responsibility in an area he really enjoyed. We made it his job to collect the eggs and give the chickens their scratch. He loved having the "big boy" work and it made me realize that we were still treating him like a toddler and not like the big boy he felt he was.

Hang in there. Growing pains are hard.

Thank you also for empathizing!  And for the tip about giving him respsonsibility.  He does like being a "big boy" and a "helper", so I'll have to find more ways for him to do so.

 

[sapphire_chan]

The bouncy house place sounds really cool! And really, if he can handle other kids in that environment, I don't think it's a problem that he isn't quite ready for structured classes.

[ShwarmaQueen]

I'm sorry to say that it sounds fairly age-related and I agree totally on keeping him outside when possible, with lots of climbing and activity. I have more than a couple friends with wild and out-of-control toddlers and they avoid situations where the kid is around other kids because it's too frustrating otherwise. He'll grow out of it. 

[bcblondie]

Hmm. Well it sounds to me like you are doing a great job with gentle discipline. Redirecting instead of punnishing for every little thing. That's awesome.

Kids usually act out when they need something. I just read a book called "how to realy love your child" by ross campbell. It's really good. I think it would help. I could summarize the points. But you would get way more out of it if you could just read it.

The 3 main points are, showing love by

eye contact

physical contact

focused attention. from each parent.

Maybe he hits because it gets immediate attention, and he's feeling a bit deprived of that since DS2 came along?

[SollysMom]

Thanks so much for the replies and reassurance.  bcblondie, I'll have to check out that book.

[Courtney-Ostaff]

Of course he's a schmuck occasionally -- he's human! ;)  We're all schmucks occasionally!  *grin*

 

I think it's telling that you found him tougher starting about 12 months.  That's when boys activity levels start to get much higher than girls, statistically speaking.  IMHO, just wear his butt out--let 'em play tag in the house, get a trampoline, or just chase him around the dining room table.  I do all that with my daughter, plus we "play" soccer in the living room, keep a slide inside, do a swing, and a ladder inside as well.  I read a while back that if an adult tried to keep up with a 2 or 3 year old, they'd be at the caloric usage of an Olympic athelete.  Those little kids are BUSY!  or at least they should be -- otherwise they get bored & antsy! And boredom makes for crankiness! 

 

Ditto what the other moms said about the bitchy mompetitor!  All littles have meltdowns, even daily meltdowns.  No, you might not see them at the other activities, because if you know your kid is gonna be a PITA, you're not going to want to take them.  Why bother, KWIM?  Have you tried less structured, more physical outings? My town has a Baby Gym and Baby Swimming class through the local university's PE department, and it's fantastic. Very laid back -- basically they just run around (or splash around) and have fun.  My 3 yr old daughter tried Kindermusik a while back, but it was much too structured for her.  She doesn't do well with those abrupt changes in activities -- and that's normal too.

 

The hitting, though, is seriously uncool.  It might be because he and his sister do it to each other that it's a nasty reinforcing cycle, but I'd nail that every time. Even a pretend swing, I'd institute serious consequences. Like, "OK, we're leaving now."  "OK, we're putting these up."  Etc.  Actually, I publicly reprimanded a tween kid at the grocery store the other day for hitting his elementary age sister -- and his mom thanked me.  You might want to ask others for help in backing you up.  There's nothing wrong with demanding help! :)

 

Also, you might check Positive Discipline for Preschoolers.  It's got lots of great suggestions in it for dealing with just such situations.

[Aufilia]

I have briefly considered an evaluation, but I'm afraid to bring it up with my husband.  He thinks in general that kids are overdiagnosed these days.  Our nephew supposedly has sensory issues and ADHD, but my husband thinks that's BS and it's just a combination of normal behavior and bad parenting choices.

Ok, but what do YOU think?  Your husband's thoughts on the issues are more judgemental than helpful, and it doesn't really matter if something's overdiagnosed if it still applies to some kids, then it still applies to some kids.  My daughter has sensory issues and there's nothing that makes me more nuts than judgy people who think she'd behave better if we'd just spank her or (as her new teacher commented at P/T conferences, at a preschool we no longer attend) if we, her parents, would spend more time with her, or whatever.  If YOU feel an evaluation would be appropriate, and if YOU feel that it's possible something could be troubling him besides simply being 3 years old, then I really think you should listen harder to your gut.

[SollysMom]

 I think it's telling that you found him tougher starting about 12 months.  That's when boys activity levels start to get much higher than girls, statistically speaking.  IMHO, just wear his butt out--let 'em play tag in the house, get a trampoline, or just chase him around the dining room table.  I do all that with my daughter, plus we "play" soccer in the living room, keep a slide inside, do a swing, and a ladder inside as well.  I read a while back that if an adult tried to keep up with a 2 or 3 year old, they'd be at the caloric usage of an Olympic athelete.  Those little kids are BUSY!  or at least they should be -- otherwise they get bored & antsy! And boredom makes for crankiness! 

Being active definitely seems to help, but it's difficult at home.  He loves wrestling and active play like that WITH one of us, but no active toy ever encourages him to be active on his own around the house.  Even our swingset (which was very expensive!) he would just climb up to the tower and then hang out up there, rather than going up and down the slide like we expected.  We have a toddler slide he used to play with inside but it lost its luster after a while.  Maybe if we reintroduce it he'll play with it again, but he may be too old for it now and I worry about DS2 hurting himself on it.  ETA:  Reading this back it sounds like I'm shooting down your suggestion, which was not my intention.  I think you helped make it clear to me that I need to engage him in more active play, and I think he'll benefit from the extra attention as well.

 

Ok, but what do YOU think?  Your husband's thoughts on the issues are more judgemental than helpful, and it doesn't really matter if something's overdiagnosed if it still applies to some kids, then it still applies to some kids.  My daughter has sensory issues and there's nothing that makes me more nuts than judgy people who think she'd behave better if we'd just spank her or (as her new teacher commented at P/T conferences, at a preschool we no longer attend) if we, her parents, would spend more time with her, or whatever.  If YOU feel an evaluation would be appropriate, and if YOU feel that it's possible something could be troubling him besides simply being 3 years old, then I really think you should listen harder to your gut.

You make a good point.  DH is very quirky himself and so I think because DS is so much like him, he just assumes it's normal.  We go see our family doctor in a few months for DS2's WCV, so maybe I'll casually mention it to her and see what she thinks.  She's fantastic and knows him/us well (her partner is in my AP playgroup with their kids), so I'd totally trust her opinion.

Edited by SollysMom - 12/26/10 at 9:51am

[Courtney-Ostaff]

 

Ok, but what do YOU think?  Your husband's thoughts on the issues are more judgemental than helpful, and it doesn't really matter if something's overdiagnosed if it still applies to some kids, then it still applies to some kids.  My daughter has sensory issues and there's nothing that makes me more nuts than judgy people who think she'd behave better if we'd just spank her or (as her new teacher commented at P/T conferences, at a preschool we no longer attend) if we, her parents, would spend more time with her, or whatever.  If YOU feel an evaluation would be appropriate, and if YOU feel that it's possible something could be troubling him besides simply being 3 years old, then I really think you should listen harder to your gut.

You make a good point.  DH is very quirky himself and so I think because DS is so much like him, he just assumes it's normal.  We go see our family doctor in a few months for DS2's WCV, so maybe I'll casually mention it to her and see what she thinks.  She's fantastic and knows him/us well (her partner is in my AP playgroup with their kids), so I'd totally trust her opinion.

Good idea. If it really bothers you, can you pick up the phone and call her about it? Or just casually broach it at a meeting?  My doctor only charges $15 for a phone call, so sometimes it's worth it just to touch base.  You may also check out an Early Intervention Specialist and see if they have comments -- they've seen it all!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SollysMom 

 I think it's telling that you found him tougher starting about 12 months.  That's when boys activity levels start to get much higher than girls, statistically speaking.  IMHO, just wear his butt out--let 'em play tag in the house, get a trampoline, or just chase him around the dining room table.  I do all that with my daughter, plus we "play" soccer in the living room, keep a slide inside, do a swing, and a ladder inside as well.  I read a while back that if an adult tried to keep up with a 2 or 3 year old, they'd be at the caloric usage of an Olympic athelete.  Those little kids are BUSY!  or at least they should be -- otherwise they get bored & antsy! And boredom makes for crankiness! 

Being active definitely seems to help, but it's difficult at home.  He loves wrestling and active play like that WITH one of us, but no active toy ever encourages him to be active on his own around the house.  Even our swingset (which was very expensive!) he would just climb up to the tower and then hang out up there, rather than going up and down the slide like we expected.  We have a toddler slide he used to play with inside but it lost its luster after a while.  Maybe if we reintroduce it he'll play with it again, but he may be too old for it now and I worry about DS2 hurting himself on it.  ETA:  Reading this back it sounds like I'm shooting down your suggestion, which was not my intention.  I think you helped make it clear to me that I need to engage him in more active play, and I think he'll benefit from the extra attention as well.

I definitely rotate toys.  Right now my daughter only has the trampoline in the living room, and a ladder is next on the pipeline for a couple of days. Then I imagine after a couple of weeks we'll rotate the trampoline out and insert a tent.  Humans all love novelty. ;)   Plus, there's nothing wrong with playing with a toy differently -- bespeaks excellent imagination.  Maybe he just likes to climb!!!  Perhaps your s.o. could build him a treehouse next summer?  Plus, I have to encourage my daughter to play with stuff sometimes too -- when there is too much competition for her attention, it's sometimes difficult for her to concentrate on what she really likes, kwim?

[tzs]

i would bring it up with your pediatrician or EI. IMO, hitting and pushing is normal behavior in toddlers due to frustration and feeling vulnerable but it always sends up a red flag with me when an older toddler hits/pushes an obviously younger one/baby...and a 1.5 year old is pretty much a baby compared with a 3 year old. there should really be no reason for "normal" hitting there. 

i had a 2 year-old in my class one year who would go after younger babes even though he actually really really liked them (in theory) due to sensory seeking behavior and he benefitted alot from a little OT and some sensory redirection. just because kids are overdiagnosed and you really don't know if you can accurately label a younger toddler "sensory" doesn't mean they wouldn't benefit from a little OT which teaches them to calm their bodies and senses and gives them the tools they/every kid needs.

[SollysMom]

IMO, hitting and pushing is normal behavior in toddlers due to frustration and feeling vulnerable but it always sends up a red flag with me when an older toddler hits/pushes an obviously younger one/baby...and a 1.5 year old is pretty much a baby compared with a 3 year old. there should really be no reason for "normal" hitting there. 

You know, I'd never seen him be violent towards a "baby" like that (except his brother, which I do think is more normal) but just last week he also knocked over his 8-month-old cousin who was sitting on the floor.  I was mortified and felt awful because he'd NEVER shown signs of violence toward his cousin, so I wasn't on him as quickly as I should have been.  I know I said I feel like I always have an excuse for his behavior, but the last week or so really has been worse than normal.  I had the chiro peek in his ears the other day (I know she's not an MD but she does have a ped otoscope) and she said it was a little red on one side but not too bad.  He's in the weird stage between napping some days but not others.

Our doctor doesn't charge for phone calls.  Usually I just speak to a nurse at her office but once or twice I have specifically requested that she call me herself when I wanted her advice about something.

Courtney - we rotate toys too which definitely helps.  He doesn't seem to like jumping so trampolines, etc. are out.  He does looooooove to climb so maybe a ladder or something.   But like I said before, I definitely think I need to initiate active play WITH him instead of expecting him to do it himself.