gifted and slow processing or slow output

[kathymuggle]

I think I have read 3 times in the last month on MDC where someone has said "my child is gifted but has a slow processing speed".  

My DD is gifted and supposedly has a slow working processing speed.  I am not sure I agree with that part of her diagnosis, but whatever.  

I am wonderring if I am hallucinating or if it does seem like giftedness and processing speed/work speed go together.  

If you think or know your child is gifted and has a slow processing speed - it is roll call time!

[Breathless Wonder]

That would be us!  I have 1 that is wired that way- mathematically gifted, and slower processing.

[Daffodil]

I think my DD is in this category.  She hasn't been tested, but she seems gifted in many ways and giftedness seems likely based on her genes.  I would also guess she would test as having a low processing speed.  She eats slowly.  She brushes her teeth slowly.  She's slow to answer questions (even questions like "What's your name?")  She reads slowly.  Despite having a good early understanding of phonics, she has yet (at almost 8) to become a really fluent reader. She writes slowly (and hates writing.) 

At almost 2, she was diagnosed as having motor planning problems with speech, and although her speech was pretty normal by the time she was 3, she has problems with some physical stuff that seem like they could be related to motor planning.  Or to slow processing.  I'm not sure exactly how motor planning and processing speed are connected.  When she learned to skip and do jumping jacks, she learned to do it in slow motion, and only very gradually worked up to doing it at normal speed.  She still can't pump a swing effectively; she has the basic idea, but she can't get the timing quite right.  (The problem with swinging is that you can't do it at your own pace at first, like skipping - you have to time your movements to what the swing is doing or it won't work.) 

[karne]

My DS falls into a low-output description when asked to write.  He can choose to write, but if it's a requirement his output looks very low.  However, he processes everything extremely quickly, so I don't know......

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by karne 

My DS falls into a low-output description when asked to write.  He can choose to write, but if it's a requirement his output looks very low.  However, he processes everything extremely quickly, so I don't know......

This is where we are at.  DD processes things very quickly, but writes very slowly.  She is supposed to have more time on tests, for work processing speed.  Whatever that means.  In her case, I really do think it comes down to writing speed.  She is big picture first, which may mean she needs extra time to sort out "the how" of  stuff she does.  While some of use formulas to figure out math - she figures it out in her head, and then has to puzzle out how to describe it, which may take longer or look like an output issue.

[mom2ponygirl]

30+ point spread between working memory/processing speed categories and verbal/perceptual reasoning scores.  

I think the Eides had some articles about this.  I think they implied that sometimes working memory and processing speed developed more slowly in highly gifted, or maybe that was executive function - it's all beginning to blur in my brain. LOL

Anyway, I know 20-30 point spreads aren't that uncommon.  A friend's kids had 50-60 point spread and that indicated some serious LD issues.  Her kids both have some dyslexia/dysgraphia issues.  With my girl's 30 point spread I certainly see some areas that are tougher for her, but I don't think she would qualify for an LD diagnosis.  I'm also seeing a lot of her issues diminish with the onset of puberty.  

[KCMichigan]

I dont know about my girls, but *I* had a 50 point drop in my written language (output) even though my verbal/reading language skills were equal to or on some skill sets 20+ points higher than my ability level.

My processing speed was in the 'average' range (dont recall actual score)- which would be at least a 30-50 point spread. I had trouble with visual and auditory input at the same time vs just one or the other.

I was dx gifted in 3rd grade, but at that time (late 1980s to mid 1990s) schools did not offer me a co-LD diagnosis since I was at or above grade level, except written language (this was in 4- 12th grade). Mine got harder to compensate for as I got older and more written output was expected. I was involved in gifted programs, but at time did poorly when I could not keep up with the written pace/notes/speed. I should have had no problems with any of the classes per ability.

Frustrating to say the least. I had no signs of Dyslexia- but definately some of of dysgraphia. Learning to type as an adult was a such a relief.

My brain is just wired that way! I suspect one of my DDs is too.

[stlmomof2]

My 5 yo preK gifted kid got a 140 on the WPPSI and there was nothing on the report about processing speed.  She seems slow in a lot of ways, though.  She eats, dresses, gets in her car seat, etc. really really slowly.  Her teacher says that she's very academically advanced but SO SLOW at doing her work (e.g. writing, reading, coloring, etc.).  Sometimes she really struggles to explain herself and can't get words out.  It seems like a lot of smart people I know think quickly, talk really well, and solve problems expeditiously in the moment, but DD definitely isn't like that.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by stlmomof2 

My 5 yo preK gifted kid got a 140 on the WPPSI and there was nothing on the report about processing speed.  She seems slow in a lot of ways, though.  She eats, dresses, gets in her car seat, etc. really really slowly.  Her teacher says that she's very academically advanced but SO SLOW at doing her work (e.g. writing, reading, coloring, etc.).  Sometimes she really struggles to explain herself and can't get words out.  It seems like a lot of smart people I know think quickly, talk really well, and solve problems expeditiously in the moment, but DD definitely isn't like that.

My oldest is probably gifted.  He did not test  in the gifted range, but close.  He has two speeds - slow and fast, and his default is slow.  It is only when he is rushing or unfocused that he becomes speedy.

My DD (the 12 yr old) seems speedy to me at everything.  She did test, easily, into the gifted range.  Her reasoning skills are sky high - but working memory/processing skills on timed tests are in the average range.

I am not sure what my point it - I have one child who is like you describe, and one who appears like the stereotype  - think quickly, talk well, solves problems quickly - yet still tested as having a huge gap in working/processing speed and ability.  Perhaps, because most tests involve writing, it is really a written output issue?  I think you can look smart (or quick) but still have written output issues.

Of course, you can be fast of mind and body and not have written processing issues, but I think it is possible to look fast of mind/body and still have written processing issues.

[earthmama369]

Both kids fall somewhere on the gifted spectrum. One has a pretty fast processing speed and the other processes things noticeably more slowly than his peers. It's very common to ask him something and wait 30+ seconds for a response (or even any sign that he heard you). However, he also has sensory processing disorder, and audio filtering is the category where he has the most difficulty. So there's a specific reason for the lag time.

[RiverTam]

When DS1 was tested, he had a low processing speed. The psychologist told us not to worry about it.

For the WISC, the National Association for Gifted Children recommends that the GAI, rather than the full score, be used to identify gifted children because it does not rely on processing speed or working memory. They point  out that gifted kids can be perfectionistic and that makes them very slow to complete some tasks. They are also  likely to give less than a full effort when faced with tasks that lack meaning. (Digit Sequencing, Letter Number Sequencing)

The position paper is here:

http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455

[neveryoumindthere]

oh wow! Other parents who are experiencing this. I didn't even know this was something that was 'measured'..

My take on the 'slowness' is that many gifted kids (and adults) are Highly Sensitive and so, easily overstimulated/aroused.  It's this way for myself and my daughter.  Too much stimulation to process and so it takes a while to sift through it, even though what I feel is really happening is that we are processing everything TOO fast, but because it's *everything* in our inner/outer environment it takes time to sift through it.

[kathymuggle]

Anyone have children make strides in this area...or is this something you learn to live with?

Also...is it even a negative or something that needs fixing?  My DS takes forever to do something, which I often think is inefficient, but he seems to get as much, actually more, out of it than if I make him hurry.  Maybe it isn't something that needs fixing? Just musing here.....

kathy

[karne]

I personally want to look at the positives.  Why do we need to have our kids move so fast?  I value careful, thoughtful processing, and I value the "personality" piece of perfectionism-I really get that.

The downside is that sometimes it is about "product" versus "process", esp. in testing scenarios, and as they move along in grades.

[joensally]

RiverTam already posted the link to the NAGC position paper, and Silverman has written a fair amount on this.  It is pretty common for gifted kids to have slower working memory and processing speed scores than their VCI and PRI scores. Often, they're in the average range but the point spread between VCI/PRI and WMI/PSI is enough to be deemed a learning disability

Quote:

 

 Working memory...assesses children's ability to memorize new information, hold it in short-term memory, concentrate, and manipulate that information to produce some result or reasoning processes. It is important in higher-order thinking, learning, and achievement. It can tap concentration, planning ability, cognitive flexibility, and sequencing skill, but is sensitive to anxiety too. It is an important component of learning and achievement, and ability to self-monitor.

 

 

Processing speed...assesses children's abilities to focus attention and quickly scan, discriminate between, and sequentially order visual information. It requires persistence and planning ability, but is sensitive to motivation, difficulty working under a time pressure, and motor coordination too. Cultural factors seem to have little impact on it. It is related to reading performance and development too. It is related to Working Memory in that increased processing speed can decrease the load placed on working memory, while decreased processing speed can impair the effectiveness of working memory.

 

  Source: http://www.brainy-child.com/expert/WISC_IV.shtml

The tests used for PS and WM are the kinds of tests that kids might not be engaged by (don't seem relevant), or could trigger perfectionism.  I'm not sure that WM and PS scores necessarily reflect real world ability.

DS has vision and sensory issues, and is a very divergent thinker.  His WM and PS scores are high average/average, but he clearly struggles with written output.  He is FAST when he's not on sensory overload (have you been a classroom lately - I'm on sensory overload in there), or when he can respond verbally. 

This does relate to executive functioning.  A book I really like is Smart but Scattered.  It provides a nice guide of where kids should be by age range for each domain of EF so you can easily assess where your child is at and then provides some strategies.

An Eides blog post about more creative brains being slower brains:

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/most-creative-brains-are-slow.html

Apparently, gaming can help reasoning and processing speed:

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2010/12/smart-games-better-reasoning-and-speed.html

[karne]

I find that motivation is a big factor in written output, but it's rolled up in fine motor issues, sensory and focus.  The deck is really stacked for my guy in the classroom setting.  It's also frustrating in that the expectations are very high for him.  So, if you can create scripts, and books, and poetry, why is it so difficult to write a journal entry or answer a (very dry) written question, or complete worksheets?  This is an almost every day issue.

[Geofizz]

My running partner describes her daughter as having no second gear.  It seems apt.
 

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I think I have read 3 times in the last month on MDC where someone has said "my child is gifted but has a slow processing speed".  

My DD is gifted and supposedly has a slow working processing speed.  I am not sure I agree with that part of her diagnosis, but whatever.  

As stated above, processing speed is a sub-test score of many cognitive assessments.

My DD scores 2-4 std above avg on most sub-test areas of various tests, but has an age appropriate processing speed.  Processing speed increases with age, and increases most rapidly in the 9-12 age range.  This affects DD currently because at age 8, DD is in 5th grade gifted math, working with gifted kids (many with associated very rapid processing speeds) who at ages 10 and 11, are into that accelerating processing speed time.   This could be disastrous in a competitive environment, and we were specifically warned about the competitiveness that can come with a classroom full of high achieving, smart kids.  Thankfully, that has not come to pass in our case - we've got a rock start teacher who does not seem to tolerate any of that, and works to maintain a positive and supportive environment.  I understand that the other teachers in this program in our district do not have this particular gift, and I'm feeling lucky that DD is not being eaten alive when she was finally put in a room with peers.

DD has untimed tests for everything except multiplication tables, in which the teacher has kids only compete against themselves.  The kids are to only spend 30-40 minutes on their homework each night, but we have DD work until she is ready to be done, often more 2 (or more) 20 minute sessions.  Stubbornness has brought her back to the table to finish on more than one occasion.
 

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Anyone have children make strides in this area...or is this something you learn to live with?

Also...is it even a negative or something that needs fixing?  My DS takes forever to do something, which I often think is inefficient, but he seems to get as much, actually more, out of it than if I make him hurry.  Maybe it isn't something that needs fixing? Just musing here.....

A lot of it comes with age and practice. It can be frustrating when it puts their cognitive ability out of sync with the pace at which they are expected to work.

Originally Posted by karne 

I personally want to look at the positives.  Why do we need to have our kids move so fast?  I value careful, thoughtful processing, and I value the "personality" piece of perfectionism-I really get that.

The downside is that sometimes it is about "product" versus "process", esp. in testing scenarios, and as they move along in grades.

I certainly value slow and careful.  Indeed, for many things, I wish DD would slow down and spend more time thinking about it, with a greater focus on the quality.  For us, however, we've seen consequences in math in particular - the subject where she's placed out of grade.

The consequence is that it can be correlated to working memory.  If I can hold 5 things in my head for 30 seconds, but it takes me a minute to process the information, then it causes a problem.  We spend a lot of time with DD (as do her math and classroom teachers) working on writing things down to allow the paper to hold the information while she processes it.  This is a skill as well, but something she's picking up quite well.  As a result, we've seen an explosion in her confidence, accuracy, and speed.  I think the speed comes from the fact that she's not repeating a process in her head after she loses track of the pieces of information she was thinking about.

[Linda on the move]

Different people and organizations use different definitions of "gifted." One of my kids is 2E (officially), yet I know that she wouldn't qualify for some programs for *gifted* kids (which is fine).

Some kids are totally gifted across the board (my other child is like that). I think those kids are actually the odder ones. Most kids who are gifted have strengths and weakness, such as the kids who is good at everything bookish but can't catch a ball, or aces every math test but has no friends.

As far as "can you fix it?" question, I think that like any weakness, working directly on it in a methodical way can help compensate for the weakness, but that it will most likely stay an area of weakness. It's just how *extreme* a weakness that could be altered.

[peaceful_mama]

I think this totally describes my DS!  He's only in K so not tested for "gifted" programs, but he reads at far above average, yet he is in the "middle" group because he just can't keep up with the "highest' group.  Things like getting on the same page in the book.  His work speed is also a little slower, yet most of it comes home perfect.

His preschool teacher also said she saw some "perfectionist" tendencies.  He does things like this--when he started to write his name, he did it at home *alone* on a Magna Doodle.  He refused to let anyone look at his attempts, or to write his name for his teacher at school--UNTIL...he had figured out how to do it to his satisfaction!

He's done this with quite a few other things.  Which makes me think that even though the ability is there, he probably would not do so well with gifted classes....

[deminc]

can't quite remember the exact scores  but ds1 has more than a 25 point spread between his processing score and his highest score. If going by his latest review, the disparity would be more than 30 point spread.  His processing score falls in high average, and is his lowest score. He is also 2E and his writing speed itself is very slow. He is only 6 and there are no accomodations for this age group, so it really doesn't matter right now. He is also not  academically inclined pr driven though he is creative and very curious about the world around him. He is definitely not one of those kids who love to solve maths sums or sit down with heaps of books. A gifted curriculum that is focused on advanced academics would probably make him very miserable.

As such we don't really do anything about processing speed, but we focus more on organisational skills which he lacks and he needs to compensate for vision processing issues and laterality issues.  I think that helps him in a very practical way.