Mexico?

[missgranger]

It's been a very long time since I posted anything. You all have been so helpful over the past couple of years and I'm always amazed at the strength of the women here.

A little update: My divorce was finalized last spring and my ex husband is still in the Middle East and can't get a visa to the U.S. The judge gave me custody and him visitation with reasonable notice and he is not allowed to take them out of the U.S.

He's finally realized that I am not going to change my mind about the divorce. He had various members of his family call and I told them all the same thing, so the message finally got through.

My ex is now asking if I would bring the kids to meet him in Mexico since he can't get a visa. I don't want to do this because it seems like it might be pretty easy for him to disappear with them. He's never threatened to take them, but I just have a bad feeling. I've read that Mexico is very slow to respond to international kidnapping, etc.

My older son really wants to see him. My youngest doesn't really care ... he was too young when we split up to really have much memory of his father.

Am I being too paranoid? Would you risk such a visit?

[pumpernickel]

it really depends, your intuition about it is the biggest sway of yes or no. you know him and what he is capable of. would he agree to a completely supervised visit?

[waiting2bemommy]

This is what I plan to buy if the day ever comes that my ds goes to visit my ex without me.

http://www.langtoninfo.com/showitem.aspx?isbn=5060188130017

I would seriously consider it in the situation you described. It's really expensive but I agree with you that it is a really big risk to be taking.

[Ceinwen]

I wouldn't, but I'm paranoid.

[Mommy Piadosa]

Does he have to be unsupervised? Couldn't you go and insist on supervised visits?

[meemee]

the key point here is your question. 'am i being too paranoid?' everything depends on this. this is the middle east we are talking about. has all the kidnapping stories, the governments scare bulletins made you scared? or is this a gut thing.

because while it might be easy to get your sons away from you at mexico, i am guessing it wont be that easy to take them out of the country without any papers. he would have to forge passports or know the right people to bribe or have the money to live in mexico. does he have enough clout to be able to do that? does he truly love and want his sons to that degree. does he really hate you and would love to watch you suffer even at his cost. is he truly a sociopath?

so is it truly your intuition talking or the generalised constant hype you see everywhere that is getting to you?

only you can tell.

so i dont really know what to tell you. based on your oldest wishes i wish i could make it happen. i like that watchGPS. its a great idea - even at that price. i would make it all supervised visits. 

[missgranger]

I am not really sure about him at all; that's the problem. He has problems with substance abuse and mental instability, which make me feel unsafe even though he's never done anything to me. However, he has talked about slapping a previous girlfriend and during our divorce proceedings I found out he'd been arrested for domestic violence with yet another woman. So? I just don't know how to judge the situation.

We were in his country for a few months prior to the separation and divorce and there was a lot of family/tribal violence going on and I saw members of his family do things I would have never expected of them in order to maintain family honor and loyalties to their extended tribe. Again, this was radically different than my first stay in his country so I really don't know what to expect of him or his family members.

He has a nephew who was raised in the U.S. who has been dropping hints about my ex's possible thinking whenever he calls to check on/talk to his cousins. (The nephew is a grown man with children of his own, so he seems more like an uncle to my kids.) The nephew asked if I thought my ex would try to come over the border and I told him it wouldn't surprise me. He said, "It wouldn't surprise me either." The nephew and my ex's brother came to visit the boys last month and the subject of me allowing the kids to go back to their father's country or moving there with them came up. I said, "No, that won't be happening. When the kids are 18 they can decide if they want to go to their father's country, but I won't send them there and I can't live there." I explained that my ex has copies of all the paperwork explaining his rights under the divorce decree and the nephew said out of the blue, "I don't think he'd hurt you." I hadn't mentioned anything about being afraid of him, so it seemed like a strange thing to say.

If we were to go to Mexico, it would definitely be supervised visitation. I wouldn't let him be alone with the kids simply because of his substance abuse and instability. However, I'm not sure I'd feel all that safe myself being with him. I really don't know how his mind is working.

Finally, I know it would be hard for him to get out of Mexico with the kids, but it wouldn't be too difficult for him to disappear with them and make it very hard for me to find him.

My gut instinct is to say no because of all the weird red flags, but I don't know that it would hold up if he took the matter to court. The reality is he likely will never get a visa to the U.S. and I will not travel to his country and am under no legal obligation to send the kids -- at least as far as the U.S. divorce decree is concerned; his country may/may not recognize the divorce.

Thank you for your time and energy on the responses, everyone.

[LorenaAZ]

I'm paranoid too and would not allow it unless you were present for the entire visit.

[Super~Single~Mama]

A court is NOT going to give you a hard time for not wanting to travel out of country (to a place where you are not a citizen and have no rights) so that your children can visit your ex.  Thats why the divorce decree says visitation in the US only.

ETA - for your oldest, what about skype?

[meemee]

aaah missgranger i remember you writing about your visit. i thought i'd mention it in my post but didnt.

so let me walk with you about the red flags.

domestic violence, substance abuse, hitting - doesnt sound like a man capable of running away with kids. at least that's what i think. 

seeing stuff his family did. ahh you got to see the inside. remember they have a lot of clout where they are - because of politically leanings and the law. not sure if they could muster the same clout internationally - kwim. what you saw or experienced could happen in any one of those countries from that whole continent. its the underground we asians dont talk about. you'd have to be someone quite big to have that kind of clout that big - so far away from home country. 

since you know about the domestic abuse i wouldnt find his cousins' statement that out of place. unless you felt he implied death instead of hurt. 

do you have a lawyer? could you ask them? can you find an international lawyer and do a half hour consult. can you call the embassy and find out? can you have a friend go down with you to mexico to be a second pair of eyes. can there be any legal papers signed over this? 

i am so sorry you are going thru all this. 

are you in touch with any of the local arab groups. could you go and talk to any of them?

how about canada? would he be able to get a visa to visit canada? or an european country that is if you can afford the flights. 

[goodygumdrops]

No way in hell would I do that.  I'm not trying to be overly cautious either but Mexico is not the safest place right now anyway.  I can't imagine taking that risk.  Why not Canada?

[smeep]

I absolutely would not. You would have to be there with your LOs every single second and not even turn your back for a second. All he'd have to do is grab them and run. I wouldn't risk it. Yes, it sucks for the older one who wants to see his dad, but that's not your fault. Why can't he get a visa anyway, do you know?

[missgranger]

Some answers to some of your questions:

1) Why not Canada? He tried to go to Canada a couple years ago (without a visa, thinking he didn't need one), was arrested and deported back to his home country. So, unfortunately, that doesn't seem like a likely option.

2) His visa status. He was arrested for DUIs and forging prescriptions in the U.S. when he lived here. I suspect that is why he was refused a visa, but he won't tell me the specific reason he was turned down.

3) Skype. They do use a computer and web cam to talk. It's not the same, but at least they can see each other while they talk.

4) Arab groups locally. No, I'm not really in touch with any. There's not a big community where we live.

[missgranger]

Originally Posted by missgranger 

Some answers to some of your questions:

1) Why not Canada? He tried to go to Canada a couple years ago (without a visa, thinking he didn't need one), was arrested and deported back to his home country. So, unfortunately, that doesn't seem like a likely option.

2) His visa status. He was arrested for DUIs and forging prescriptions in the U.S. when he lived here. I suspect that is why he was refused a visa, but he won't tell me the specific reason he was turned down.

3) Skype. They do use a computer and web cam to talk. It's not the same, but at least they can see each other while they talk.

4) Arab groups locally. No, I'm not really in touch with any. There's not a big community where we live.

When you see things like this in black and white, you wonder how your judgment could ever lapse that much. That's why I don't trust my instincts about him or anything involving him at this point.

[smeep]

Originally Posted by missgranger 

Originally Posted by missgranger 

Some answers to some of your questions:

1) Why not Canada? He tried to go to Canada a couple years ago (without a visa, thinking he didn't need one), was arrested and deported back to his home country. So, unfortunately, that doesn't seem like a likely option.

2) His visa status. He was arrested for DUIs and forging prescriptions in the U.S. when he lived here. I suspect that is why he was refused a visa, but he won't tell me the specific reason he was turned down.

3) Skype. They do use a computer and web cam to talk. It's not the same, but at least they can see each other while they talk.

4) Arab groups locally. No, I'm not really in touch with any. There's not a big community where we live.

When you see things like this in black and white, you wonder how your judgment could ever lapse that much. That's why I don't trust my instincts about him or anything involving him at this point.

I know EXACTLY what you mean by that. You look back and think, "What on earth was I thinking?!" I understand completely. I'm pretty much in a similar situation right now. When I actually look at some basic facts about him "in black and white" it's amazing to me just how badly my judgement lapsed, as you said. So I take that to mean that I shouldn't trust myself to trust him. I think it might be a good idea if you do the same. I know it's such a simple thing to say but, honestly..."better safe than sorry."

It's his fault that he can't get a visa. Not yours, not your childrens'. His, completely. How old is your older DS? Do you think he's old enough to understand? You don't have to give details...just some basic, "Daddy made some mistakes and because of that he's not allowed to come back to the US for a while and we don't know when he'll be able to." 

But I would not take the chance...it's his fault that he can't come into the states and you shouldn't have to risk things because of that. Sure, he may not at all be the type to run off with them, but you don't want to find out the hard way, ya know? 

[Momtwice]

No, no, no, no no.

[Avani]

Mexico?? No way.

[Cybercere]

What about Canada? If he can get a visa to Mexico, he's likely to be able to go to Canada as well and it's much more US friendly. DO NOT give him your children's passports under ANY condition. If you are staying in Canada, he will be unable to leave the country with them if he doesn't have the passports. Can someone from your family go with you?
 

I wouldn't risk it either. Any way you guys can set up Skype or something so DS can see his dad somehow? And what's the problem with the visa? People from the middle east are able to come into the country - it just takes time.

[Maluhia]

No. No. No. Trust your gut, and No. 

[Barbamama]

No, I wouldn't do this, not in a million years.  If I recall correctly, didn't he have friends/classmates living in Mexico? I wouldn't trust him not to enlist those folks in an attempt to kidnap your DCs.