How could dh do this behind my back....

[Petie1104]

DS 4 yr. old, was throwing a fit earlier. He wanted a piece of candy, I said no, he said yes, I said no, he picked up a bucket and said...

"If you don't give me candy then I'm going to hit with this until you do"

My response was...

"Why would you say that honey.  You know we don't allow hitting in this house."

His respons...

"Well, I'm going to hit you cause your making me mad"

Me

"DS noone in this house hits anyone out of anger and I can't let you start"

Him

"Daddy hits me when he's mad enough."

So I just said,

"Well, I'll talk to daddy about that, but this doesn't mean that you should start hitting people"

OK so that ended my nice strong finish about how we don't allow hitting in our home.  So I called dh and do you know what he said, "Well, I just get frustrated when you aren't there to make them behave.  I don't know what else to do, usually I call you to handle it, but some times your not there, or aren't available."  My response to him, "So you ACT LIKE A 4YR. OLD AND HIT WHEN YOUR MAD!!"  OK so I'm angry.  But HOW COULD HE DO THIS BEHIND MY BACK LIKE I WOULDN'T FIND OUT ABOUT IT!!  Apparently, he has started spanking the four year old. Oh and his defense, "well he's only 4 it's not like he'll remember it".  UGGGGGG!!!

So, how do I handle this from now on?  How do I convince a 4 yr. old that I'm not lying to him when I say that hitting is wrong, when he has been hit?

[SollysMom]

I think it would mean more coming from your husband.  He should talk to him about it and apologize, and say something like "We should work together to find other ways to show when we're mad".  Is your husband on board with GD?  It sounds like he's either indifferent or not on board, and expects you to do most of the work.  You two need to come to an agreement about a discipline style that you're both willing to enforce, or accept that some things might be done differently depending on which parent is handling a situation (not saying I condone him spanking, but you might find another option that isn't something you would do, but you can accept him doing).

[Petie1104]

Originally Posted by SollysMom 

I think it would mean more coming from your husband.  He should talk to him about it and apologize, and say something like "We should work together to find other ways to show when we're mad".  Is your husband on board with GD?  It sounds like he's either indifferent or not on board, and expects you to do most of the work.  You two need to come to an agreement about a discipline style that you're both willing to enforce, or accept that some things might be done differently depending on which parent is handling a situation (not saying I condone him spanking, but you might find another option that isn't something you would do, but you can accept him doing).

He says he's on board with it and I believe that he WANTS to not spank.  We started GD before I even knew it had a name, but after that he got deployed two more times and then had a job that had him gone ALL THE TIME.  No joke, I planned on him being home maybe 4 or 5 days a month.  When we moved, maybe I just expected him to jump back into parenting, but he missed so much of the kids growing that maybe he's lost now.  I don't know, I just can't believe he didn't TELL me he was having trouble.

[Cyllya]

I'm sorry you have this situation.  I suppose he was embarrassed that he had lost his temper and spanked (and also embarrassed that he had any trouble keeping his kid "under control" in the first place?), but that's not any excuse for not telling you.

I don't have any BTDT advice, but I think if I were in this situation, I'd try to avoid having Dad alone with the kid--partially to protect the kid in the short term (it sounds harsh, but you wouldn't leave him in the care of anyone else who'd hit him, right?), and partially so he gets more chances to see your GD'ing in action.

[texmati]

subbing... no advice but my dh has taken up quite a bit of slack in parenting lately since I've been pregnant. We don't spank, but twice in the last month dh has said that he's gotten so frustrated that he felt like slapping him. Once was when ds played in his poop in the potty, the other was when ds wasn't going to sleep. I need to help him with better tools to manage this. I know ultimately the answer is that DH needs more help around the house but I'm not sure how that is possible right now.

[CarrieMF]

hmmm.  could your dh have been gone long enough over the years that your son just isn't listening to him when he asks him to do something.   I'd have a talk with BOTH DS & DH.  What are DS's consequences if he doesn't listen?    

[Petie1104]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF 

hmmm.  could your dh have been gone long enough over the years that your son just isn't listening to him when he asks him to do something.   I'd have a talk with BOTH DS & DH.  What are DS's consequences if he doesn't listen?    

That depends on what he didn't listen about.  Honestly, I don't have too much trouble with many requests.  DH tends to ask alot of the kids.  For some reason he seems to think they are older and more capable than they are.  He expects ds to clean his own room, wipe the table down without any supervision (then gets upset when it isn't done correctly), or any number of chores.  The older kids do fine with that because they know how to do most the chores he asks them to.  I honestly don't think dh understands a child's limitations.  He thinks ds should be able to clean his room on his own.  DS CAN but he doesn't realize he can because usually I make a game out of it.  The only area that ds and I have trouble with listening is when it comes to things like bedtime and naptime.  I wouldn't be a stickler on it except if he doesn't get enough rest he becomes a terror to live with.  The main area that we have trouble isn't with ds listening but with the demands.  To me, those are just a case of "stick it out and don't give in"  to dh they are unbelievably stressful.  So, for instance, the issue of candy.  I was just going to stick it out, talk him through it, and that is the end of it.  If dh were stuck in that same position, it would drive him insane.  I think that is what he was running into when he lost his temper and hit ds, it was a case of ds wanting something and dh not giving it to him so a normal tantrum led dh to the edge of his sanity.  Ever since his last deployment, crying and tears just seem to irritate him to no end, of course, so do loud noises, car horns, and anything like tv, or radio set too loud for his liking.  I'm wondering if maybe that is part of the reason that ds's temper tantrums throw him a bit out of wack.  I do know that almost the entire time dh is home with us, I hear, "go talk to your mother" and "MOM you deal with them" ALL THE TIME.  It is getting difficult to deal with. 

WOW sorry, didn't mean to unload.  The short answer to your original question is that it completely depends on WHAT the scenario is.  If it's something that I can get done by being playful, then I'll do that.  If it's a tantrum then I hang on for the ride.  If it's a downright, outright refusal, then there have been times when I have gone over, taken his little hand, and walk him through it step by step.

[Tigerchild]

I think the below is a very important observation.  Is your DH willing to go to short term counseling for stress management techniques, or an evaluation for PTSD?  I'm thinking the former might be the easier sell (I'm a military brat with strong military connections and I know that despite the insistance that the military is more "counselor friendly" know I also know that's BS for most people).  I can't imagine coming out of a war zone to a demanding, high stress civvie job while you're still trying to readjust out of military life.  It sounds like he's managing fairly well, all things considered, but by his own admission he has been doing thing that he doesn't want to do, in response to that stress.  I know as a parent who was abused as a kid, I had to do a fair amount of stress-management work (still have to, actually) in order to deal with the chaos and noise esp. when I am under external stress as well.  I don't think you yelling at/demeaning him will do much good, it'll probably just mean that he shuts down.  So I'd ask if he is up for learning some stress management techniques with you, while a counselor would be ideal, perhaps you can read some books together and help each other do it.

 

Originally Posted by Petie1104 

 Ever since his last deployment, crying and tears just seem to irritate him to no end, of course, so do loud noises, car horns, and anything like tv, or radio set too loud for his liking.  I'm wondering if maybe that is part of the reason that ds's temper tantrums throw him a bit out of wack.  I do know that almost the entire time dh is home with us, I hear, "go talk to your mother" and "MOM you deal with them" ALL THE TIME.  It is getting difficult to deal with.  

[NellieKatz]

In response to this question: "So, how do I handle this from now on?  How do I convince a 4 yr. old that I'm not lying to him when I say that hitting is wrong, when he has been hit?"

I would just be honest. You can still say that hitting is wrong. But to say "we don't hit in this house" is simply not true. I would totally understand your reluctance to ever say that again. In fact, you have no way of verifying that it's the case. You're not always around and since you are not omniscient, you can't really claim what goes on "in this house." However, you CAN speak about what your family's shared values are. If you all had a meeting and stated together that hitting is not what you want to do, what you COULD say instead is "in our family, we try to find better ways to handle our angry feelings." (assuming that's true). Because it is honest....you all (hopefully) agree that hitting is not the way to go, and you're doing your best to not hit. You could also say "Daddy is still trying to learn better ways. When he does that, he feels sorry, and he knows he needs to try harder."

Always just be honest. Even when you mess up too. As parents, we don't need to hit in order to be violent. If we clench our jaws and scream loudly enough that our child cries or backs up, then we've been violent. So in those cases we should be honest. "I am sorry I did that. I need to try harder next time. It would be better if I went and gave myself a time out next time I feel like exploding."

That type of thing. In response to your damaged credibility, you will just have to be honest....again. "I said we don't hit in this house because I really thought that. I didn't know Dad hit you, and I will be working with him on that. If I ever sound like I am saying something that's not true again, or if I'm making a mistake, you can always tell me." Kids need to know they can question us. He must have been very conflicted about the mixed message he was getting.

[SollysMom]

Originally Posted by NellieKatz 

In response to this question: "So, how do I handle this from now on?  How do I convince a 4 yr. old that I'm not lying to him when I say that hitting is wrong, when he has been hit?"

I would just be honest. You can still say that hitting is wrong. But to say "we don't hit in this house" is simply not true. I would totally understand your reluctance to ever say that again. In fact, you have no way of verifying that it's the case. You're not always around and since you are not omniscient, you can't really claim what goes on "in this house." However, you CAN speak about what your family's shared values are. If you all had a meeting and stated together that hitting is not what you want to do, what you COULD say instead is "in our family, we try to find better ways to handle our angry feelings." (assuming that's true). Because it is honest....you all (hopefully) agree that hitting is not the way to go, and you're doing your best to not hit. You could also say "Daddy is still trying to learn better ways. When he does that, he feels sorry, and he knows he needs to try harder."

Always just be honest. Even when you mess up too. As parents, we don't need to hit in order to be violent. If we clench our jaws and scream loudly enough that our child cries or backs up, then we've been violent. So in those cases we should be honest. "I am sorry I did that. I need to try harder next time. It would be better if I went and gave myself a time out next time I feel like exploding."

That type of thing. In response to your damaged credibility, you will just have to be honest....again. "I said we don't hit in this house because I really thought that. I didn't know Dad hit you, and I will be working with him on that. If I ever sound like I am saying something that's not true again, or if I'm making a mistake, you can always tell me." Kids need to know they can question us. He must have been very conflicted about the mixed message he was getting.

I really really think that the message needs to come from Dad though.  I think for Mom to say "I'm working with Daddy on that" really undermines the father and makes it seem almost like he's another child who needs Mom to correct his behavior.  And, it seems to me like it sends the message "Dad's okay with hitting but Mom's not so she's trying to make him stop." 
 

[Nitenites]

If you want your DH to be able to parent in a way you feel is appropriate, you have to provide him with the tools. As you've said, he's been away a LOT. I'm not making excuses for spanking, but if he's backed into a corner, he's going to revert to what he "knows" if he doesn't have any other tools. Try to see this from your DH's perspective. Of course he doesn't know what is age appropriate behavior - he hasn't been around to get a feel for what each child is capable of . You have to help him learn. Be careful about shaming your DH. I understand that you're angry and disappointed, but putting him on the defensive about his parenting isn't going to encourage him to come to you in the future if he's having trouble with a kid issue. He's probably a bit embarrassed, too - you know what to do in these situations, and he doesn't. I'm sure he feels a bit intimidated by your expertise. You're a team - work together to solve this!

[sosurreal09]

OMG seriously! I think DH needs a GD class big time...he needs to learn other ways to deal...

something like that would be a separation at least for me and DH but I told him before we had kids if you ever lay a hand on any of our children I will divorce you...it's that serious to me

[Petie1104]

DH and I had a long talk last night.  I made sure we were both relaxed, so we took a bath and while sitting in there we talked and talked.  He has missed so much of the kids growing up that he feels like he got thrown into the deep end.  He is also very hurt that the baby (4 yr.old) is afraid of him.  That actually gets under his skin and makes him feel like he has to walk on eggshells around ds until he just has no idea how to deal with him.  I told him that when he is in the garage with ds that ds is not afraid of him and he said, "that's because all we're doing is kicking a soccer ball back and forth".  So we talked about other things he could do with ds to build that relationship based on trust rather than fear.  He is very upset that when we first got married he was the patient one who got upset with me whenever I lost my temper and now that has switched.  I told him that it's just because I've had to deal with it and learn the hard way.  So, we talked about ALOT of things.  This morning I woke up and dh was apologizing to ds and to the other kids for the way he's behaved and asked them if they could help him learn to do things better.  The kids looked completely shocked.  DS still concerns me if he is just afraid of dh's voice because whenever dh starts to talk ds curls up into a ball on the floor.  But, once again, he doesn't do this if they are out in the garage kicking the ball.  DH thinks that maybe he should do his talking to ds while they are out there playing, maybe ds would be less afraid and more able to hear what dh is saying.  I said I thought this was a good idea, on top of the fact that if ds is upset it gives him a physical outlet for his emotions that would help him work through them with daddy. 

So, it looks like we had a breakthrough.  I am also going to be printing off some things that I can hang around the house.  Like the principles for UP and some quotes that will help both of us remember to deal with our children gently.  Any suggestions on things to print off? 

[SollysMom]

Originally Posted by Petie1104 

DH and I had a long talk last night.  I made sure we were both relaxed, so we took a bath and while sitting in there we talked and talked.  He has missed so much of the kids growing up that he feels like he got thrown into the deep end.  He is also very hurt that the baby (4 yr.old) is afraid of him.  That actually gets under his skin and makes him feel like he has to walk on eggshells around ds until he just has no idea how to deal with him.  I told him that when he is in the garage with ds that ds is not afraid of him and he said, "that's because all we're doing is kicking a soccer ball back and forth".  So we talked about other things he could do with ds to build that relationship based on trust rather than fear.  He is very upset that when we first got married he was the patient one who got upset with me whenever I lost my temper and now that has switched.  I told him that it's just because I've had to deal with it and learn the hard way.  So, we talked about ALOT of things.  This morning I woke up and dh was apologizing to ds and to the other kids for the way he's behaved and asked them if they could help him learn to do things better.  The kids looked completely shocked.  DS still concerns me if he is just afraid of dh's voice because whenever dh starts to talk ds curls up into a ball on the floor.  But, once again, he doesn't do this if they are out in the garage kicking the ball.  DH thinks that maybe he should do his talking to ds while they are out there playing, maybe ds would be less afraid and more able to hear what dh is saying.  I said I thought this was a good idea, on top of the fact that if ds is upset it gives him a physical outlet for his emotions that would help him work through them with daddy. 

So, it looks like we had a breakthrough.  I am also going to be printing off some things that I can hang around the house.  Like the principles for UP and some quotes that will help both of us remember to deal with our children gently.  Any suggestions on things to print off? 

Sounds like a very successful talk, and it sounds like everyone is moving in a good direction.  I wish your family the best :)
 

[iowawaltz]

I am so glad you posted this.  Our son is much younger, just a year, but my husband is currently deployed, and this is reminding me how much we will both have to work at coming back together as a family.  In fact, you've inspired me to write DH an email about some of our, hmmm - not so much discipline as 'guidance' issues right now.  Just so he can feel connected to the situation.  I so very much appreciate the chance to learn from your example! 

I'm also so glad that you and your DH were able to communicate so well.  Good job!  I think sometimes we forget that using the same gentle, empathetic approach with adults can also yield better results, so mega kudos on the bath!  Keep taking care of each other, you are all dealing with so much, and it sounds like you're managing to get it figured out. 

I have no real advice, other than, if your DH is on board, we found it quite easy to access family therapy through Military One Source.  It made a huge difference to us as we dealt with an incredibly difficult time in our lives - I just hope that you don't reach the kind of rock bottom that we BOTH had to before we saw therapy as something we might actually need. 

[heartmama]

There are some really good books out there aimed at fathers parenting sons and I would recommend you look into those and pick one for him. One thing is that boys DO listen better if the talk to dad while doing some OTHER activity together. Even my very gd husband has always related better to ds by going out and doing something with him--and I will say it was easier for my dh to relate to ds after the age of 5 or 6, when ds could sit and do things like board games and crosswords etc. I mean they had fun before that age but they really bonded closely around the age of 6/7 and that is even with a dad that was always home--many small kids just do bond closer to mothers during the preschool years, and boys in particular (historically and culturally) tend to switch their identity to fathers around 6/7/8 years old. Before that point dads can seem a little scary, even dads who never hit or spank! I have seen this time and again--

It sounds like your dh is really making progress. I want to re-iterate the fact that your husband NEEDS someone to talk to. He has gone through a trauma, and you said he shows signs of PTSD, and I would urge him to take advantage of any military counseling offered to him. He has NOTHING to be ashamed of and his feelings are totally normal. There is a link to a great PTSD  resource for military dads that I will find and pm you.

[YasaiMuraLife]

Originally Posted by Petie1104 

  This morning I woke up and dh was apologizing to ds and to the other kids for the way he's behaved and asked them if they could help him learn to do things better.  The kids looked completely shocked. 

This brought tears to my eyes.  You have a good husband who wants to do the right thing.  Best of luck to your family.