Any Rh Negative UCers?

[WinterPrego]

Have any of you done UC while knowing you were Rh negative? If so, what did you do during pregnancy and after birth?

[imogenlily]

I'm Rh negative, not UCing, but HBing and considering declining Rhogam.

[WinterPrego]

Originally Posted by imogenlily 

I'm Rh negative, not UCing, but HBing and considering declining Rhogam.

I don't know yet if I am Rh negative, but my mother is and I'm not sure of the odds that I am, since she is. I am waiting for my blood results to come in. I really don't like what I have read about it.

[thepeach80]

Do you know what your father is? What is your SO?

[WinterPrego]

Originally Posted by thepeach80 

Do you know what your father is? What is your SO?

My father is Rh positive. What do you mean by SO? Sorry, I'm still adjusting to all of the abbreviations on here! 

[MeepyCat]

WinterPrego, if your father is Rh+ and your mom is Rh-, without more information about your dad, there's a 50% chance that you're Rh-. 

SO is significant other.  If the baby's father is Rh-, you don't need Rhogam, no worries.

I don't have unassisted births (I was thinking about it with my second, but I had placenta previa).  My husband is Rh+, I'm Rh-, and our daughter is Rh+.  I had two prenatal Rhogam shots with her, because I was bleeding enough to wear the first shot out.  I also had the post-partum shot.  The available evidence suggests that I would have been sensitized to Rh factors if I hadn't had Rhogam.  However, barring bleeding or abdominal trauma, my feeling is that the prenatal shots aren't necessary in the majority of cases.  They're a precaution.  If you actually need it, you can get it. 

I wouldn't skip the post-partum shot if you have a Rh+ baby - some people are comfortable with the risks of sensitization during birth, but I am not one of them.

[WinterPrego]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat 

WinterPrego, if your father is Rh+ and your mom is Rh-, without more information about your dad, there's a 50% chance that you're Rh-. 

SO is significant other.  If the baby's father is Rh-, you don't need Rhogam, no worries.

I don't have unassisted births (I was thinking about it with my second, but I had placenta previa).  My husband is Rh+, I'm Rh-, and our daughter is Rh+.  I had two prenatal Rhogam shots with her, because I was bleeding enough to wear the first shot out.  I also had the post-partum shot.  The available evidence suggests that I would have been sensitized to Rh factors if I hadn't had Rhogam.  However, barring bleeding or abdominal trauma, my feeling is that the prenatal shots aren't necessary in the majority of cases.  They're a precaution.  If you actually need it, you can get it. 

I wouldn't skip the post-partum shot if you have a Rh+ baby - some people are comfortable with the risks of sensitization during birth, but I am not one of them.

My husband doesn't know his Rh factor, unfortunately! We find out in another week what mine is, so we're waiting to see my results first. If I'm Rh negative then he's going to get his tested.

I'm also not comfortable with the idea of refusing the post-partum Rhogam, though I'm also not comfortable about the ingredients of the shot.  I don't believe it's safe for the baby to get the prenatal Rhogam, so I wouldn't be doing that. It's been a battle for me, but I'm coming to the belief that the safety of our next baby is more important right now!

I'm not so sure I could handle a miscarriage or the baby dieing, knowing that it could have been prevented by not refusing Rhogam. I know a woman who lost several babies because of being Rh- (husband was +), and she never received Rhogam. It's a heart breaking situation...

[MeepyCat]

WinterPrego, FWIW, prenatal Rhogam has not been shown to have negative effects on either women or babies.  I would have preferred to skip it because I don't like needles and I don't think it's really necessary in normal cases.  However, if there is bleeding or abdominal trauma, my opinion changes radically.  Should one of these things happen to you, I want to assure you (as much as I can) that it's far better to get the shot at that point.  The risk to the baby is unquantifiably small, and there would be risk to the next baby.

[WinterPrego]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat 

WinterPrego, FWIW, prenatal Rhogam has not been shown to have negative effects on either women or babies.  I would have preferred to skip it because I don't like needles and I don't think it's really necessary in normal cases.  However, if there is bleeding or abdominal trauma, my opinion changes radically.  Should one of these things happen to you, I want to assure you (as much as I can) that it's far better to get the shot at that point.  The risk to the baby is unquantifiably small, and there would be risk to the next baby.

You are probably right about my opinion changing if there is bleeding or abdominal trauma - I've never experienced that, so I can't say what I would do. But I have read that Rhogam has caused death/complications in some infants.

[MeepyCat]

Can you let me know where you read that, or possibly link me?

I keep fairly close track of the Rhogam stuff, but I've been out of it for the last few months.

[WinterPrego]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat 

Can you let me know where you read that, or possibly link me?

I keep fairly close track of the Rhogam stuff, but I've been out of it for the last few months.

I'll try my best to find it again...I think it was day before yesterday I read it. I'll search my history!

[WinterPrego]

So here is the link from what I read : http://www.vaccinetruth.org/rhogam.htm

It seems the danger to it, is the mercury compound, thimerosal. But I noticed reading it this time around, that the Rhogam marketed before April 2001 was the Rhogam known to cause problems. Since then, they are supposed to only be offering Rhogam that no longer contains thimerosal. So I suppose the Rhogam manufactured today, is no longer as toxic as it once was?

[mwright]

I didn't UC but I did UP my last baby. (I totally desire to UC my next baby tho!) And I decided against the prenatal Rhogam. I did have baby's blood tested via cord and my son was RH- so I didn't need the Rhogam. I'm not sure if I would choose Rhogam or not had he been RH-. I think I would have gone with my intution and how the birth went.

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by WinterPrego 

So here is the link from what I read : http://www.vaccinetruth.org/rhogam.htm

It seems the danger to it, is the mercury compound, thimerosal. But I noticed reading it this time around, that the Rhogam marketed before April 2001 was the Rhogam known to cause problems. Since then, they are supposed to only be offering Rhogam that no longer contains thimerosal. So I suppose the Rhogam manufactured today, is no longer as toxic as it once was?

According to the FDA, Rhogam has been manufactured and distributed without thimerosal in the US since 2001.  Since Rhogam expires after two years, no Rhogam from prior to 2001 should be in  use.  Alternatives to Rhogam include BayRho (thimerosal free since 1996) and WinRho (which never contained thimerosal).

[jeminijad]

I'm Rh-. I wouldn't UP. I have only had hospital births, but have though about this topic.

If I was going to UC, I would

1) get tested at an OB early on in the preg to make certain I wasn't sensitized already (not applicable if this is your first pregnancy, if all fathers have been Rh-, or if prior infants were Rh-.)

2) try to get a postpartum Rhogam shot at same OB. Guess you would have to do the old "oops" story there, depending on how many questions they asked. Or maybe you could get one somewhere else, not totally sure about that. Either way, I would want one postpartum to protect future pregnancies.

3) Get Rhogam midpregnancy if I experienced abdominal trauma or bleeding. Again, the OB thing

So, pretty straightforward. But while I do question some vaccines, this ain't one of them.

[stik]

Interesting link, WinterPrego. 

I question Ms. Cave's statistical analysis - The website reports, via hearsay from another individual, that 62% of the patients in Cave's practice had Rh- moms, but only 3% had Rh+ moms.  What about the other 35% of the patients?  There are only 2 options for Rh factor - you are positive or negative, period.  If you aren't one, you are the other.  Are 35% of her patients without a known mom?  If so, that's an atypically enormous number.  In any case, statistical suppositions that fail to account for 35% of patients need some special explanation. 

But some investigation into the CV of the author sheds some light on the roots of this gap.

Stephen Marini's CV is here: http://www.icpa4kids.com/seminars/instructors/CV_Marini.htm

Please note the following interesting features:

• Pacific Western University, Los Angeles California-Ph.D. Microbiology (1987-1989)

• 1988 Pennsylvania College of Straight Chiropractic, Langhorne, PA - D.C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Western_University - Pacific Western University was not an accredited institution in 1989.  In fact, the federal government identified it as a diploma mill in 2004.  I also note that Marini somehow managed to obtain a D.C. from an institution on the other side of the country *while* allegedly pursuing the world's shortest PhD program in microbiology (2 years for a PhD is pretty incredible).

Pennsylvania College of Straight Chiropractic has since shut its doors, but was also unaccredited: http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=45198

http://www.ed-oha.org/cases/1990-8-sa.html

and apparently a little sketchy: http://www.chirobase.org/03Edu/lattanze.html

which helps explain Marini's ability to obtain two credentials simultaneously.

• 1978 LaSalle College, Philadelphia, Pa - Master's Program -Ethics & Religious Education
• 1976 Hahnemann University, Philadelphia, PA - M.S. Microbiology & Immunology
• 1971 Villanova University, Villanova, PA - B.S. Biology, Minor-Chemistry

I can't find LaSalle College on the internet.  I did find a LaSalle University that may have offered a Masters Program in Ethics and Religious Education in 1978, though it no longer does.  In any case, note that Marini does not claim to have obtained any credentials from this program, and in any case, the program in question does not qualify him to comment intelligently on genetic and immunological issues (it's worth noting that a degree in microbiology would also not be helpful in these matters, even if it was legitimately obtained.  Immunology is, at least, relevant.) 

I also find no online record of a Hahnemann University in Philadelphia.  There is a Hahnemann University Hospital, but no university.  It's named after the founder of homeopathic medicine, and is affiliated with Drexel University.  Marini notes that he attended in 1976.  No other years are listed.  So he also got his MS in two highly demanding fields in a single year.  I suspect another diploma mill.  Villanova University is legit - I suspect the BS in Bio may be Marini's only actual credential. 

On to his work experience:

Professional Qualifications

• Has maintained 2 chiropractic practices focusing on children's health since 1988
• Post-Graduate Faculty - Parker College, Dallas, TX
• Post-Graduate Faculty - Life University Atlanta, GA
• Post-Graduate Faculty - Cleveland Chiropractic College - LA
• Post-Graduate Faculty - Cleveland Chiropractic College - KC
• Professor of Microbiology & Immunology, Pennsylvania College of Chiropractic 1987-95
• Associate Professor of Microbiology & Immunology, PA. College of Chiropractic 1981-87 Assistant Professor of Microbiology & Immunology, Pennsylvania College of Podiatric Medicine, Philadelphia, PA 1978-1979
• Instructor of Microbiology & Immunology - University of PA College of Nursing, 1977-79
• Instructor of Microbiology & Immunology - Pennsylvania College of Podiatric Medicine, 1975-78
• Consultant National Board of Chiropractic Examiners Greely CO, (1989 - 1995)
• Consultant Omni Medicorp 1990 - 1995
• Frequent lecturer in Canada Europe and US on Microbiology & Immunology
• Frequent lecturer in Canada Europe and US on chiropractic pediatrics

Parker College, Life University, and Cleveland College of Chiropractic are all Chiropractic schools.  I haven't checked to see if they are accredited or list Marini as faculty.  I leave this as an exercise for the dedicated reader.

Pennsylvania College of Chiropractic is another name for Pennsylvania Straight College of Chiropractic, where Marini was apparently working as a professor in Microbiology from the same year that he began obtaining his PhD in Microbiology (which he interrupted to get his DC from the same institution) from an unaccredited institution on the other side of the country.  He seems to have tought a lot of Microbiology for someone without a PhD.  I also note that he allegedly became a Consultant for the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners one year after obtaining his DC.  This makes me suspect that he wasn't consulting for them on matters pertaining to the chiropractic examinations, if he consulted with them on anything at all (maybe his personal exam scores?). 

In conclusion, Marini seems to be a long-running con, and if nothing else, no one should be using his advice on changing your Rh factor via diet for anything other than a few minutes worth of entertainment.  He's got a graying beard.  He looks serious and caring.  And then he says stuff that sounds scary and people listen.  But there's no good reason to.  There's too much legitimate information to be alarmed about to waste time on Marini's unsubstantiated ideas.

[channelofpeace]

I am Rh+ so the Rh factor isn't an issue for me.  I was, however, sensitized to another antigen (Kell) at the end of my first pregnancy, likely during delivery and unfortunately, there is no shot that can prevent it.  I have had two high risk pregnancies with Kell positive babies.  Anti-kell and anti-D (or the other antibodies that Rh factor can cause) pregnancies are treated similarly- blood draws to check titers levels, serial ultrasounds (usually weekly) to check the blood flow through the cerebral artery in the baby's brain, if the baby is anemic, in utero blood transfusions and early delivery.  The baby can die if it is affected too early. 

I also UCed my last baby (who did *not* have the antigen), so I understand it from that angle.   But IMO, the risks of getting the postpartum shot are minimal compared to the harm that sensitization can cause a future baby.  I wish I had had that option in my situation.  My two sensitized pregnancies ended well, but there was so much worry and uncertainty, so many tests, I wouldn't wish that on any mother.  This was just my personal experience, but I don't think the risks of sensitization are often fleshed out.  And it is important when weighing the decision- risks vs. benefits, right? 

[corrio]

I am Rh negitive I have had U/C. I typed the babies blood after the baby was born with a eldon card,( you can buy them here http://www.birthwithlove.com/categories/itempage.asp?prodid=Eldon+Card)

This was my 5th birth, I have one child who is also negitive so there was some hope that a future child would also be negitive. It turned out that this latest baby was positive so I went to the hospital 2 days after birth for a rhogam shot, The experience wasnt too bad at the hospital, the intake nurse to emergancy was the worst, the doctor thought I miscarried and the nurse on duty she seemed to not care..

I know in 2001 they removed the thimerosal from the rhogam vaccine

also I know I would of seen a doctor if I had and bleeding or trauma

yah thats my 2 cents

Lisa

[elus0814]

I'm RH- and we have four RH+ children. I had rhogam with the first two before realizing what it is. It's a huge dose of human blood product PURCHASED from RH sensitized men who have been through an initial screening. Since they are being paid there is little incentive to report risky behavior. It's also a much larger dose than is needed and is very seldom needed before birth. In Europe they do not give any prenatally unless the mother is in a really major accident and the check the mother's blood before giving any postnatally. About 50% of the time the mother has enough of the baby's blood in her own to carry an approximately 10-15% risk of sensitization. They then give her an adjusted dose of rhogam based on how much blood has mixed. It's really not a huge risk if you have a natural birth without interventions. Their rate of sensitization is the same as the US.

I did not have prenatal rhogam with our third pregnancy and not at all with the fourth and I'm not sensitized even though both of those babies are RH+. 

[CBEmomma]

I'm RH- and a HB'er, but my DH is RH- as well, so I didn't need Rhogahm. I would find out if your DH is.