I am new and have question

[jennyND]

Hi,

I am new to the site and can't wait to post questions that I can ask anybody else.

I have a 6 years old in 1st grade who we believe is gifted. I didn't do the test yet since I don't really think is necessary. He self taught to read at 22 months and now, He reads at 5th-6th grade level (reading Narnia currently). He also working on singapore math 4B ( I skip couple subject such as data/chart, (I thought was too easy), and approximation (I thought was totally BS).

So a back ground of my question...

my son is  bright, but the same time, he is a very lay back kind of kid. He doesn't want to do anything other than play vedio games, which I really think the school taught him all the bad stuff. He learned the weird songs and learned the vedio game from other kids in school. And to me school didn't teach him a thing. He goes to a small private school only in its 2 years. last year in K, he was pull out to the class ahead of him and he still didn't learn a thing and the teacher didn't communicate and I have no idea what he learned until much to late. During summer, I requested a plan from the headmaster who do recognize that my son been advanced but refuse to teach him at "his level". The reason been.. The headmaster's son is in that class (2nd grade and working in 4th grade level, and it will be "SHOCKING" if my son can work on that level since his son is a genius. (NO overstatement. it is word by word. ) . The headmaster had no idea what level my son was, and since my son already in the school for a year and working in 2 different class in math, I was also very surprised for me that they didn't know that my son is working on 4th grade. By the time we realized the headmaster is a jerk,, and the oly purpose he started the school is so he can advance his son,  it was too late to withdraw him from school, so I told the headmaster do not bother , I  will have other plan.

So, the new semister started last september, we started more structured math teaching rather than more playing and 5 mins a day math when he was in K. We started out singapore math $A as placement suggested and we just about finish 4B. 

NOW,  here is the delima. Am I too tough on the kid. He does go to school full day and by the time I pick him up and get home is 4:30PM. He usually have his homework at school done already and I will let him relax for 30 mins and having some snack then we will do 30 mins math 2 time/weekdays (Tuesday and thyrsday) and weekends, I convinced myself that school is a breeze to him, so it is "necessary to teach him on the side" . but the same time, it breaks my heart when he say he doesn't want to do it, But the same time, during the 3  days we don't do math, he just playing his vedio game when he gets home. So... where is balance. What will you do?  Homeschool completely is not option. I can't teach literature. I am a Chinese.

BTW, I do plan to take him out of that school next school year

[whatsnextmom]

Welcome to the board.

Being in school all day is taxing whether it's easy or not. I don't know many kids no matter how brilliant who are eager for extra lessons after a 6-7 hour day. Honestly, I doubt it's the "type" of work that he's rejecting... it's having to work at all after a full day of school! Also consider that just because a child is gifted in an area doesn't mean they want to live and breath it. They may not even LIKE it. He may also be going through a period where he may naturally want to stagnate in one area while he develops is other less tangible ways.

Since the headmaster is resistant, I would go ahead and have your son tested. It's not likely to tell YOU anything new but some administrators only understand scores. With scores in hand, you might have an easier time getting accomodations.

If video games are a problem, get them out of the house! It's not the schools fault he's playing. Yes, the other kids might talk about it but they didn't purchase a system and put the remote in his hand. We didn't do any sort of gaming system other than the computer (and we only had a handful of educational games) until we knew the kids could handle them the way we felt they should be handled. My kids were 9 and 12 before we bought the Wii. At that point, both kids had longterm interests and passions developing outside of school. The kids enjoy the games but they enjoy other things more. Put it this way, last summer the kids had 11 weeks of summer vacation. The Wii wasn't turned on until the 10th week! They just have other things to do and they were given the time to find them before having such a temptation and distraction in the home. If you feel the games are interfering with his drive and learning, get rid of them or put major limits on them.

[JollyGG]

I literature and English is the only thing holding you back from homeschooling I'd look for a tutor or some other arrangement for those subject areas. I'd get in touch with your local homeschooling group. Perhaps you can even trade some skills teaching with other homeschooling families. For example my son loves and is very into learning Chinese. If you were in my area I would happily work with you son on English if you worked with mine on Chinese.

I'm guessing you can find similar trade offs with other parents in your area.

I also agree with whatsnextmom, if you disapprove of the video games then you need to either put limits on them or get rid of them.

[Roar]

It is often difficult to work out a good school situation when a kid is so far out of step with peers. If he's not enjoying the math I see no reason to require him to do more and get further out of step with school.

My main thought is that the two choices shouldn't be structured math with mom or video games. My suggestion would be either get rid of the electronics or place much tighter limits on them such as making them for weekends only or for a set number of hours a week. Work with your son to come up with other ideas for afterschool time. This could include: trips to the park, pool, playing with other kids, helping around the house, science experiments, drawing, riding bikes, reading library books, crafts, lego, board games, making music, card games, etc. If he's in the habit of having video games fill all of his free time he may need more structured support initially to discover some other ways to occupy his time. Also, you didn't mention if he's in any activities. It might be good to look at something like martial arts, swimming, music as a place to help him find some challenge.

[jennyND]

No, I don't have him play vedio all the time. I do restrict him the time that he can plan but that doesn't mean he will not  beg to play. And yes, He does involve in a lot activities, He plays soccer in spring/fall. Ski in winter and he also plays violin. But again he is lay back kind of kid. He didn't want to do ANYTHING. He used to swim but he beg to stop. He didn't want to play violin and we switch to piano and then he again didn't want to play piano and want to switch back to violin. What I am afraid of is not what grade math he is doing. What I am afraid is that he doesn't want to do anything. I also didn't mentioned that I also have a 2 years old and make activities wise even more restircted..

[whatsnextmom]

He may just be that kind of kid. He's only 6. Wanting to be home and playing is pretty normal. Seems like the problem is what he's playing. Try to "detox" him from the video games. Pack the system up for a couple weeks or until he starts being more creative with his time or at least until he stops begging for it. Encourage him to look to his toys, perhaps invite a friend over, find some fun home kitchen science experiements or crafts that he might like with the purpose of fun as opposed to education. It's OK that he's a laid-back kid. It doesn't make him less gifted.

Not all gifted kids are driven high-achievers at this age. My youngest is not. He tests just as high as his big sister but they couldn't look more different. He uses his smarts to make his life easier, to get through the boring stuff earlier and get to the fun stuff faster. He's a good student but he's not AMAZING if you know what I mean. Only recently has he had interest in accelerating past what is available in his class and he's 10 and it's ONLY in certain areas of interest.

I'd not tolerate the begging for video games. He can ask once but when you say "no" he should move on. If he's nagging and needling you about it, most certainly pack it away or at least start taking away portions of his alotted time.

Originally Posted by jennyND 

No, I don't have him play vedio all the time. I do restrict him the time that he can plan but that doesn't mean he will not  beg to play. And yes, He does involve in a lot activities, He plays soccer in spring/fall. Ski in winter and he also plays violin. But again he is lay back kind of kid. He didn't want to do ANYTHING. He used to swim but he beg to stop. He didn't want to play violin and we switch to piano and then he again didn't want to play piano and want to switch back to violin. What I am afraid of is not what grade math he is doing. What I am afraid is that he doesn't want to do anything. I also didn't mentioned that I also have a 2 years old and make activities wise even more restircted..

[JollyGG]

Yep. My son has learned that asking repeatedly once I have said no to playing his video games will result in the loss of all video games for a set time period, crying or getting upset about being asked not to play will result in the system getting taken away, etc.

My son is not an intrinsically motivated kid either. Heck, despite being an advanced reader he spends very little of his leisure time reading (his favorite pastime being bugging his little sister).

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

He may just be that kind of kid. He's only 6. Wanting to be home and playing is pretty normal. Seems like the problem is what he's playing. Try to "detox" him from the video games. Pack the system up for a couple weeks or until he starts being more creative with his time or at least until he stops begging for it. Encourage him to look to his toys, perhaps invite a friend over, find some fun home kitchen science experiements or crafts that he might like with the purpose of fun as opposed to education. It's OK that he's a laid-back kid. It doesn't make him less gifted.

Not all gifted kids are driven high-achievers at this age. My youngest is not. He tests just as high as his big sister but they couldn't look more different. He uses his smarts to make his life easier, to get through the boring stuff earlier and get to the fun stuff faster. He's a good student but he's not AMAZING if you know what I mean. Only recently has he had interest in accelerating past what is available in his class and he's 10 and it's ONLY in certain areas of interest.

I'd not tolerate the begging for video games. He can ask once but when you say "no" he should move on. If he's nagging and needling you about it, most certainly pack it away or at least start taking away portions of his alotted time.

Originally Posted by jennyND 

No, I don't have him play vedio all the time. I do restrict him the time that he can plan but that doesn't mean he will not  beg to play. And yes, He does involve in a lot activities, He plays soccer in spring/fall. Ski in winter and he also plays violin. But again he is lay back kind of kid. He didn't want to do ANYTHING. He used to swim but he beg to stop. He didn't want to play violin and we switch to piano and then he again didn't want to play piano and want to switch back to violin. What I am afraid of is not what grade math he is doing. What I am afraid is that he doesn't want to do anything. I also didn't mentioned that I also have a 2 years old and make activities wise even more restircted..

 

[joensally]

Welcome!

Do you have a school option in mind for next year?  There might be some value in having him tested.  The headmaster's point of view is revolting.

What is your goal in after-schooling math?

As for the video games - set up a system that involves opportunities for him to gain time and to lose time on the video games.  Whining would be a definite loss of time.  This will help it not be a hassle for you, and also help him to learn self-regulation and how to get what he wants productively.  If the video games are a real problem, they could go live somewhere else for a period of time so that he can have a break from them.  When DS was seven we had to give him week-long restrictions a couple of times because he was obsessing about them.  We didn't actually remove the systems from our home, but we were firm that we would not waiver and bugging us about it added a day to the restriction period.  We needed to help him become more balanced about the role video games should play in his life.  He's now pretty self-regulated and the gaming system recently went unused for weeks, while he probably played games for maybe an hour per week on the computer and here and there on my iphone (ie waiting at the doctor's office).  Gaming's a lot of fun, but teaching them the skills to self-limit is invaluable.

Your son is only six - he's very young.  He may be figuring out what he's actually interested in.  Do you have a community centre or YMCA near you, so he can try different things on for size affordably?  As for music lessons, it's pretty common for kids to resist the amount of practice involved.

[jennyND]

My goal.. The boy is lay back and because he is advanced, he thinks things comes to easy. reading, math or even soccer, violin. He needs very little practice and he is far above his peers. He became really bone headed accepting mistake or losing. It is the key reason I taught him myself. I would've homeschool him if i could. but I do also have a full time job to keep. And that also kills me because I knew he would be so challenged if I could teach him math/science myself ( I have Master degree in Engineer, I am good at math/science) and that is another driver that i do aterschool math with him so that I can make up the gap the the school can't  teach him (and let's be honest, half elemtrey school teacher has no business teaching math/science in US). So, that is my motivation.

I asked the boy this afternoon if he likes math, he say yes, I asked if he want to stop. he thought about it, he say no. He say he likes when the bus driver asked a math Q meant for 3/4th grade, he was the one can answer it ( imaging that. bus drivers were asking kids on the bus math quiz, i want to thank him ).. Maybe i just do weekend???

We do have Y membership and that is where he learn swimming. Most of the programs offered there are aimed for younger kids or during the week day, which as a full time working Mom, I can't do it.

[Aufilia]

If you're full-time working than I imagine homeschooling would be pretty near impossible. 

Does your school district have a gifted program?  Or are there any private schools nearby that specialize in gifted programming?  I know that in my area (Seattle) there are at least 3 large private schools aimed at gifted kids (must be tested gifted to apply) and most school districts have gifted/talented programs of some kind. There are also private programs which, while not specifically for gifted kids, offer individualized programs (such as private Montessori schools). 

[jennyND]

No, we don't have school specific for gifted (albany, NY) around, I am relatively new to the area (only moved here for 2 yrs) But I do not aware any school aimeed for gifted. And the public gifted program not start until 5th grade. Do u see my delimma now.. My only choice to keep him at his level is to teach him myself :(

[Aufilia]

Maybe someone local to you will jump in with some better ideas :) but here are a few things I turned up on Google:

Advocacy for Gifted and Talented Students in New York State: http://www.agateny.com/

Dr. Dai at the SUNY Albany seems to have a lot to do with gifted education -- maybe if you called or emailed him he could give you some leads on local programs or other resources?

[eepster]

have you considered a Montessori school?  In Montessori schools, students work at their own pace.  

I googled "albany montessori school" and these popped up.  

A magnet school, in the city of Albany.

A private one that goes through middle school.

Only goes through lower elementary (3rd grade.)

[ChristaN]

Even if it isn't going to happen this year, I'd put in a formal request for subject acceleration in math or a grade skip if you feel that skipping would work okay socially for your son.  I'd pull together all of the test scores you have to support such a request (achievement, IQ or any other ability testing, above level testing, etc.) as well as a letter of support from a psychologist or anyone who has worked with him extracurricularly and knows what he is capable of doing.  Even if it doesn't work this year, you'll have all of your info together to make the same request the following year when you change schools.

I know that he is too young for some of the talent seach above level testing, but I'd have him take a test designed for older grade children as well to show what he can do when compared with older kids.  If the school is not willing to give him something like the ITBS for the next grade level up, you may be able to find someone to do it privately.

As others have mentioned, do you have definite plans for next year?  If you know which school he'll be attending, I'd also start the conversation with them now.  We started talking with the middle school dd12 attends when she was no more than half way through 4th grade b/c we wanted to know if it would be a reasonable place to send her when she hit 6th grade.  They suggested to me that we consider sending her immediately (the following school year) skipping 5th grade once they saw her test scores on IQ and achievement tests.  She shadowed a day, both schools filled out an Iowa Acceleration Scale (a workbook that evaluates a child for a grade skip), and we wound up doing just that.  If something like that is a consideration, the sooner you get the ball rolling, the better. 

[jennyND]

Thanks for the infi, I did checke with 2 of of 3 school u sugessted and 2 other montesorri in the area. Woodland is very far from where I live which means no school bus, with another 2 years old  kid I have, Just can't make that. (I probably shouldn't say albany, NY, I really live in clifton park, NY, but that counted as  albany general area. And I also check 3 other montesorris in the area. one goes to 3rd grade which I don't see amking sense sending him there fr 2 years. and 2 others only goes K. (which actually should work for my 2 years old. They say in NY because the public school system so great, There is very little need for private school. so there is really not many around, especially my area.
 

Originally Posted by eepster 

have you considered a Montessori school?  In Montessori schools, students work at their own pace.  

I googled "albany montessori school" and these popped up.  

A magnet school, in the city of Albany.

A private one that goes through middle school.

Only goes through lower elementary (3rd grade.)

Thanks, I will definitely try to contact him

Originally Posted by Aufilia 

Maybe someone local to you will jump in with some better ideas :) but here are a few things I turned up on Google:

Advocacy for Gifted and Talented Students in New York State: http://www.agateny.com/

Dr. Dai at the SUNY Albany seems to have a lot to do with gifted education -- maybe if you called or emailed him he could give you some leads on local programs or other resources?

the truths is, I told the headmaster not to bother to skip him a grade. I don't think with his mindset (that his son is genius, nobody can be smarter than his son) gonna work. I was shocked and frankly didn't know what to reply. We were talking about "My Son" , He as a headmaster should not brought up his to start with. Let alone making a comment that his son is "genius" And truthfully, I don't think accelerate 1 grade with do much to him, He is 1st grade, so skip a grade is 2nd grade. He is working on 4 operation of fraction/dicemal. I really doubt skip a grade will help. And I will not skip him 2+ grade. He is not mature enough to do so. I was actually planning to send him to public school next year. My thought was if school can't meet his need anywhere and I can't homeschool him full time. I might as well send him to public school with he working his social skill in mind, And I will be the one to teach him math/science afterschool. And now I am having a second thought... He threw a big fit right before x'mas. We are having a 2 week break since it is x'mas/new year, I am not sure what I gonna do starting next year.  I do think I want to talk to the principal in the new school to just give a headsup. I am a little afraid it will send the wrong message that I am crazy. I am keepng stuff he is working on to be evidence. and now I do think I will have to have his IQ tested next year. My husband didn't like the idea to have his IQ tested. He asked what difference will it make.. and really, I don't know, I am mumbling. But I am just so run out of idea in turns of school considering the finicial/resource.
 

REALLY appreciate all you guys taking times to search and help me out. You guys are so great!!!
 

Originally Posted by ChristaN 

Even if it isn't going to happen this year, I'd put in a formal request for subject acceleration in math or a grade skip if you feel that skipping would work okay socially for your son.  I'd pull together all of the test scores you have to support such a request (achievement, IQ or any other ability testing, above level testing, etc.) as well as a letter of support from a psychologist or anyone who has worked with him extracurricularly and knows what he is capable of doing.  Even if it doesn't work this year, you'll have all of your info together to make the same request the following year when you change schools.

I know that he is too young for some of the talent seach above level testing, but I'd have him take a test designed for older grade children as well to show what he can do when compared with older kids.  If the school is not willing to give him something like the ITBS for the next grade level up, you may be able to find someone to do it privately.

As others have mentioned, do you have definite plans for next year?  If you know which school he'll be attending, I'd also start the conversation with them now.  We started talking with the middle school dd12 attends when she was no more than half way through 4th grade b/c we wanted to know if it would be a reasonable place to send her when she hit 6th grade.  They suggested to me that we consider sending her immediately (the following school year) skipping 5th grade once they saw her test scores on IQ and achievement tests.  She shadowed a day, both schools filled out an Iowa Acceleration Scale (a workbook that evaluates a child for a grade skip), and we wound up doing just that.  If something like that is a consideration, the sooner you get the ball rolling, the better. 

[Mommy Piadosa]

I was labeled gifted and so is my daughter. At ages 6, 7, 8 and beyond, we just wanted to play and learn through play. Schooling with our peers was enough to keep us learning formally. For myself it wasn't until college that I did more than skate by. For my dd it was this year, 8th grade that she has decided to excel. Let him go at his own pace and you may be surprised how much he learns.

[ChristaN]

I understand that one grade skip is unlikely to place a gifted child in an optimal place for his/her academic needs.  My oldest daughter, for instance, had scores on the WJ-III achievement test that she took at age 7 that indicated she was at grade 18+ in some areas.  Even with being young for grade and skipping a grade, she is still easily in the 99th percentile+ in some areas.  However, the work would have even been a worse fit had she not skipped.  She'll be started high school next fall shortly before her 13th bd and she will have the chance to take dual enrollment courses (college courses) while in high school.  She's likely been ready for college level courses in literacy and possibly science for some time.

We do try extracurriculars as well but not so much just extra work after school.  She's participated in academic summer programs.  By the time she was 10 or so, the programs aimed at middle schoolers were not the best fit for her anymore, though.  We are hoping that, with being a high schooler next year, she'll have the opportunity for more engaging summer programs should she choose to do any more of those.  She scuba dives (her passion is marine biology).  She recently won a writing contest and we're waiting to hear whether she was the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place in the region which might allow her essay to advance to the state competition. 

My younger dd who is less engaged in school in general is getting rather active in theatre.  We're trying to find a way to keep them alive mentally b/c love of learning is more important ultimately even if what they are loving to learn is how to make a person into a monster for a movie (dd10 is interested in make-up artistry) rather than where I see their innate abilities lying (which would be extremely creative approaches to math for dd10).

[LynnS6]

Another suggestion/question: Are you teaching him to read in Chinese? While you may not be comfortable teaching him English language arts (though you could easily do so), teaching him Mandarin or Cantonese is a natural thing for your family. It would be good for him culturally and linguistically. Since he's only 6, it's a natural time to introduce Chinese literacy to him. Since the system is so different from the English reading system, it would be a challenge for him initially. If he doesn't speak the language, what about adding that, rather than more and more math? I'm not saying give up the math, since he's clearly got a talent for it, but since he's also got linguistic gifts if he's reading at the 5th grade+ level, maybe you could feel better 'homeschooling' him with Chinese literacy.