Controlling wives, and other things that keep me up at night.

[mamapajama]

Let me start by saying I have no good role models for this in my own life. will someone please tell me that the stereotype of the women controlling where everyone spends the holidays, and social life in general, is not true.  Because I have sons and no daughters, and I just watched my three sisters in law completely dictate how the holidays went while their husbands just did whatever they said.  The result, all the girls had the holidays with their families.  All the boys went with their wives' families, and me and dh stayed home. (:

Dh brother is lovely and married a lovely woman.  They live locally and we all adore them.  However, she contols all their social engagements, and spends an incredible amount of time with her family.  As a result dh often feels hurt because his brother is so busy with his wife's family that he has no time to hang out with him.  So, the holidays were another example of this for dh but I think they hurt more because they went and stayed with sister in laws family for a week (they live locally) and couldn't see us at all.  My SIL is a lovely person.  She is in no way being mean. She just is very close to her family. 

So I look at my two sons, and I think, is this really true that they will grow up and get married and I will only see them when their wife allows?  And how do I raise my boys to not do this?  How do I raise my boys to undertand that relationships are about give and take not one person controlling everything?  I know there are a lot of grown men and women out there who spend equal time with both families, or more even with the sons family, but like I said I have no role models for it.  Just because my children are boys should not have to mean that I only get them in my life until they are married.

Phew, feels nice to vent that.

[limabean]

I think women do tend to be in charge of the social stuff in a family. It's a double-edged sword though. I buy all gifts, for my side and DH's side of the family. I write all thank you notes, for both sides of the family. I'm expected to call and chat with my MIL regularly (which I don't mind -- she's great), but my DH is never expected to randomly call my mom for a chat. My MIL calls me, not my DH, to plan get-togethers. There are a lot of expectations and obligations placed on wives that I'd frankly rather not deal with. I'm trying to work towards delegating more of the gift buying and card writing to DH, but somehow it usually works out that I do it. 

I think a lot of it also has to do with how sensitive the wife is to this sort of thing. I remember when my brother had his first serious girlfriend, we never saw him without her the entire time they were together, and while I really liked her I missed our one-on-one relationship. So now, although we spend lots of time with my ILs as a family, I also encourage DH to go see them on his own sometimes so they can hang out with just their son. And I'm really close to my family, but I make sure we see both families a lot because it's important to DH (and to me -- I want the kids see all their grandparents frequently). 

Could you invite your BIL's family over frequently? Or plan sort of a standing once-a-week dinner or something with them? I don't know how to answer your question about your sons. I would hope that seeing you model visiting both sides of the family would rub off on them. My aunt (who has two grown sons) has expressed similar feelings. Once my mom, my infant DD, and my aunt were sharing a hotel room, and when I brought DD into bed with my mom and I to nurse at about 5am my aunt wistfully said, "I'll never have that." It was really poignant. But she has an incredibly close relationship with her sons, and although the older one is married with a child they still see her all the time. 

[happysmileylady]

The problem I find is that many men either don't speak up, or they don't care.  We regularly attend holiday things at both parents houses and the "start time" is usually up in the are.  I always ask DH, what time do you want to leave and always get an I don't care. 

And, as another poster mentioned, the wife also is usually the one who carries the obligations as well.  I bought all the Christmas presents for his parents and sister and BIL.  I am the one who told him last Tuesday to call his sister to see how her surgery went.  I am the one who reminds him that his parents anniversary is coming up. 

[HeatherAtHome]

Yeah, I suppose I'm the "controlling wife" as in I'm the one running around doing all the baking, all the planning, all the choosing of gifts, making arrangements etc. I grew up watching my mom being the glue that kept everyone together and right off the bat I told DH that HE was going to be in charge of keeping in touch with his family. They call us, I chat but I never call them. We have news, DH calls them. We want to get together, DH makes the arrangements.... and he just doesn't. Every now and then he says that we spend more time with my family than we do with his but that's because my family is a family. Mom comes to town to do a big shopping once or twice a month and stops in. I go to my sister's place to hang out. I have her kids over here and babysit when needed. Heck, I see my sister who lives over 2 hours away more often than I see his family who are 20 mins away. We live near the "big" city where all the country folk go to shop. His family never stops in. Or if they do they just pop in unannounced on one of my random braless days where I'm taking a break from dishes/cleaning so I look totally awesome. Don't get me wrong, I like them, but they (and DH!) exasperate me. They are welcome to stop in, just call first (and not 2 minutes from our house!). Except for BIL, we only see DH's family members 2-6 times a year. They just don't contact each other and I don't go out of my way to make it happen either. Not my job. 

So, to sum it up (guess I was in vent mode too!) teach your sons how to use a phone, treat them well so they *want* to hang around with you (DH's step mom is always going on about how they never see us... well, we're standing right here, how about we take advantage of that?) and work on having traditions, etc. 

For the record, we spent Sunday before Christmas at DH's sister's, Christmas Day at his Dad's and we didn't see my family until the day after Christmas. 

Reread this and it sounds totally cranky, it's not directed at you. I've just had a very long week and now I'm sick with a cold and have a headache. 

[tinuviel_k]

If SIL is controlling the family's social life it is because BIL is letting her. If he wanted to speak up more often and express his opinion then I'm sure he could. It does seem that this often happens, and yes, I've seen it more often with the wife being more invested in planning family events than the husband. If it is bothering your DH that he doesn't get to spend enough time with his brother then he should talk it over with him.

[mamapajama]

Did I mention that I am also "the controlling wife" at times?  DH is more social than me so he does do a lot of planning events and cooking, but I did make the xmas arrangements this year and I bought all the presents and planned everything.  It was my decision to stay home and not see his family.  Well, it was a joint decision.  I just want my boys to become men who care about family.  And not, because they are men, think its OK, to just sit back and let their wives plan it all. 

[mattemma04]

 I think that if you let your spouse dictate then they will dictate-man or woman. If it were an issue(holidays) for us I think we would opt to take turns each year.Switch out who we spend eve and day with.

I like to stay home,but if dh wanted to do something else I would compromise to meet his needs.He would do the same for me.

[Belia]

This may be rambly....

I find my DH is just completely thoughtless about this stuff.  As in, he doesn't think about it.  It doesn't cross his mind.  It's not anything malicious, it's just that family does not fall into the important categories of "food, sex, computers, sleep, work" and its not in his face, so it doesn't occur to him to give it a thought.

So I do end up making plans often, or at least nagging DH constantly about what's going on and what he wants to do, but that's because I DO think about stuff like this.  I don't want to look up from my laptop at 5:00 on Christmas Eve and ask, "Gee, are we going to do anything for the holiday?"  which is TOTALLY something that DH would do.

However, it's easier to make plans with my family because they're in town, whereas his parents like 6 hours away.

The other thing is that I do NOT shop for his family.  I never have in the 12 years we've been married.  Our families are the exact same size, and I have a hard enough time coming up with ideas and buying for my own family.  There is no reason on god's green earth why my husband can't do the same for his family.  There have been many, many, many occasions on his side of the family that have not been marked, or been marked very late, because of DH's thoughtlessness.  I think DH's family did blame me for it, but I just cannot take ownership. DH knows his responsibilities and they have been agreed to since the very beginning, so I refuse to feel bad when HE drops the ball.

I have the same concerns as you, OP, seeing as how I have a son.  I guess my plan now is to be much more assertive about my needs when he is older if I feel as though I am feeling left out.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by mamapajama 
I just watched my three sisters in law completely dictate how the holidays went while their husbands just did whatever they said.  The result, all the girls had the holidays with their families.  All the boys went with their wives' families, and me and dh stayed home. (:

<snip>

[BIL and SIL] went and stayed with sister in laws family for a week (they live locally) and couldn't see us at all.

I just reread this part. My DH would never stand for that. If I suggested that we skip seeing his family entirely during Christmas (not that I would ever do that), he would think I had lost my mind and would tell me so.

In both of our families, we're big on celebrating the season and not getting all hung up on the calendar day (for example, no one is allowed to get their feelings hurt if our get-together ends up being on Christmas Eve instead of Christmas Day), but we do make a point to have a festive celebration with each side of the family. I guess I'll just have to trust that that will make an impression on my kids and that they'll want to continue that tradition when they're grown. 

[laohaire]

I think it's true that most wives lead the family's social obligations - make arrangements for get-togethers, call to check in after surgeries and job interviews, remember birthdays, buy gifts, etc.

However, I don't think it's universal that the wife excludes her in-laws. Oh, sure, many do (for various reasons including very reasonable ones, like toxic in-laws), but I think that's all individual. Many MILs put enormous pressure on their DILs to attend her family gatherings over her own parents. Many DILs choose the in-laws for themselves. And of course many try to divide evenly, or choose their parents over the in-laws for whatever reason - no universal pattern really. Factors include distance, relationship, pushiness of the extended family, etc.

If it were all up to my DH, I doubt we'd see either his family or mine, ever. Not unless my mother or his mother threw a major, major hissy fit. He loves his mother and he seems to enjoy seeing her when he's actually there, but he absolutely dreads the travel, never looks forward to visits in any way, and never has a yen to make another trip. I have no idea what he would do if MIL were in our town, probably he would do nothing until SHE arranged a get-together. And then complain about having to go. And probably have a decent time during the visit.

For me, I think as a woman I'm more sensitive to the obligations. It's not that I really enjoy driving 4.5 hours in a blizzard to see his mom (though, like him, I'm fine when I'm actually there) but I know what's expected of me as a wife. I did resist some pressures - MIL expected me to be like a substitute daughter and call her up all the time to chat, but our relationship got off to a rocky start and I'd sooner call my dentist than MIL. During one of our fights this came up and I pointed out that DH never called my mother. MIL seemed to be kind of struck by that, and saw my point. Fortunately things have improved a lot, and every now and then, maybe once a month, I actually do call MIL! Not as often as she originally expected, but she now seems happy with it. Anyway, my point is that I agree that as wives we have expectations put on us to manage social events, and it's a double-edged sword. Some wives just do whatever they want, and either don't get pressure from their families or are impervious to it. I think most of us feel the pressure and try to keep everyone reasonably happy.

[peainthepod]

DH handles most plans and communications with his family, and I handle them with mine (which right now consists only of my sister and one set of grandparents, all of whom live about 1500 miles away).

I do email back and forth with my ILs (we do a lot of group mailings to discuss visits/issues in the family) and write all the thank you notes for our joint gifts, gifts to me, and gifts to the kids. But I refuse to write DH's thank you notes (Do some wives actually do that?) or call his parents/brother/grandparents on their birthdays. I will gently remind him of upcoming birthdays if he seems to have forgotten (my computer's calendar application makes this very easy), but it's his job to follow through with gifts/cards and a phone call on the day.

I'm not saying this is at all the case in your family, OP, but often I see women complaining that their DIL is controlling and they never see their son and his family and I wonder if maybe the MIL's own behavior isn't partly to blame. I mean, I don't want to be the MIL that my DIL(s) hate and avoid, but if I ever acted even half as bad as some MILs I see discussed around here, I would fully expect my children and their spouses to avoid me! Nasty behavior can (and should) have consequences and I'm raising my children to have healthy boundaries and enough self-respect to stay away from toxic people.

[earthmama369]

Is it controlling or is it simply filling a vacuum? Maybe it's a gender thing, maybe it's a social construct, maybe it's just us, but I noticed when dh and I got married that I automatically remembered my IL's birthdays and found myself shopping for gifts and cards for them, and dh wouldn't even know when their birthdays were if asked. We were both working, both busy, so it wasn't that I had more time to think about it...I just did. And he didn't. I felt more compelled, too, to show that we cared about them by remembering important dates and honoring them. He didn't feel any social pressure or familial guilt or anything like that.

Does that mean he's incapable of managing family events or giving me his input? Not at all. But I do have to be very specific about what I want from him in terms of input and participation. If I'm feeling overwhelmed, I can't just say "You do it." Lists, budgeting tools, specific deadlines, explaining how I'm feeling, etc., all help. I guess that's the same for just about any area of marital communication. After so many years together, I do often just go ahead and make plans, because there's a tradition already set in place with both families and I know what it is. If dh wants to change how we participate in that, he's fully capable of speaking up and letting me know, but otherwise, I will just assume he's ok with it.

[kanga1622]

I think it is all about raising your sons to value family and state their opinions (while taking input from their future partners). Men and women should feel equally important in their relationships and be able to discuss with their partner plans and compromise on a solution that makes everyone comfortable.

DH doesn't plan anything until I nag him about it. This year I just let him deal with it which is why our Christmas plans changed on the 22nd! I had been trying to work out my family get together for months because my sister was driving 11 hours to visit and we had to rearrange everything 2 days before we were supposed to be there.

It is really hard for us because DH's parents are divorced so that means 3 families to coordinate holidays for and I would have really rather just stayed home with DS to celebrate his first Christmas in our own home and start our own traditions. As it was, all three of us were quite sick in December so it didn't even feel like Christmas and I would have loved a day at home to snuggle in together. Maybe we'll make that a New Year's tradition for us? We had a good time with our families but driving over 11 hours on Christmas Eve and Day was not the best way to celebrate with a 9.5 month old that was not really excited to be in the car seat for that long.

I know we will raise DS to spend time with us but it doesn't have to be on any certain day. We celebrate with MIL's side in January but MIL has already said that when GMIL passes, we will do Christmas in July and all take a couple days to just visit and go to the zoo or something equally low key. Sounds good to me so I don't have to deal with winter weather and one less family member to worry about for the holidays.

Just let your boys know that time with them is important and instill in them that they are equally responsible for keeping the connection. Phone/e-mail works both ways and in this day it certainly is not hard to keep connected with family if you really WANT to.

[Marsupialmom]

I think many men it doesn't really matter to them...they just don't care and it isn't important to them.  I run into issues with SIL and my youngest dd.  Christmas (holiday) decorations, meals, dishes, and family get togethers mean a lot more to them than us.  I told my youngest if it is that important to her to have these things then she needs to take care of them and not expect me to mind read.  They are very much so into things have to be just so and if it isn't then it is not right.  Yes, my bil's have checked out on this.  They really do not care if they eat on paper plates verses real China.  My bil, dh, and I are why can't we just enjoy eating a meal together without all this extra stuff that my sil's and dd stress over.  

My nephew was left clueless why he spent HOURS folding streamers the "right" way for his daughters (my great niece) first birthday.  He is checking out on holiday plans and special advents just like my bil's.  I have to ask also why does it matter so much that the streamers were folded verses twisted a particular way. 

I think many of the issues revolve on how women and men differ on social interaction and socialization. Men often socialize by doing things -- playing basket ball, building a fence, hunting, et.  Were women will typically interact, talk, et.  I think this can create issues on planning and who cares about what.  I also think there are double standards.  -- more later I have to work. 

Originally Posted by mamapajama 

Did I mention that I am also "the controlling wife" at times?  DH is more social than me so he does do a lot of planning events and cooking, but I did make the xmas arrangements this year and I bought all the presents and planned everything.  It was my decision to stay home and not see his family.  Well, it was a joint decision.  I just want my boys to become men who care about family.  And not, because they are men, think its OK, to just sit back and let their wives plan it all. 

[HollyBearsMom]

never mind....

Originally Posted by HeatherAtHome 

Yeah, I suppose I'm the "controlling wife" as in I'm the one running around doing all the baking, all the planning, all the choosing of gifts, making arrangements etc. I grew up watching my mom being the glue that kept everyone together and right off the bat I told DH that HE was going to be in charge of keeping in touch with his family. They call us, I chat but I never call them. We have news, DH calls them. We want to get together, DH makes the arrangements.... and he just doesn't. Every now and then he says that we spend more time with my family than we do with his but that's because my family is a family. Mom comes to town to do a big shopping once or twice a month and stops in. I go to my sister's place to hang out. I have her kids over here and babysit when needed. Heck, I see my sister who lives over 2 hours away more often than I see his family who are 20 mins away. We live near the "big" city where all the country folk go to shop. His family never stops in. Or if they do they just pop in unannounced on one of my random braless days where I'm taking a break from dishes/cleaning so I look totally awesome. Don't get me wrong, I like them, but they (and DH!) exasperate me. They are welcome to stop in, just call first (and not 2 minutes from our house!). Except for BIL, we only see DH's family members 2-6 times a year. They just don't contact each other and I don't go out of my way to make it happen either. Not my job. 

So, to sum it up (guess I was in vent mode too!) teach your sons how to use a phone, treat them well so they *want* to hang around with you (DH's step mom is always going on about how they never see us... well, we're standing right here, how about we take advantage of that?) and work on having traditions, etc. 

For the record, we spent Sunday before Christmas at DH's sister's, Christmas Day at his Dad's and we didn't see my family until the day after Christmas. 

Reread this and it sounds totally cranky, it's not directed at you. I've just had a very long week and now I'm sick with a cold and have a headache. 

[Aeress]

My Mother complains about my brother and SIL all the time because "her family gets more time." In my view, it is a choice my brother is making. Maybe she does put her family first, I don't know, it isn't my husband but in my family, we do spend more time with my family than dh's. Dh's family has always lived far away and my family is closer. In dh's words- "your family is more fun." So see, it is a choice. We spend time with my inlaws but not as much as we probably could. If we see his family I am the one making the arrangements cause he just doesn't- he also doensn't call his parents as often as I call mine.

[texmati]

Eh. I think that your son's will end up mimicking what they've seen growing up.  My parents both handle the social calendar, and dh and I also share that responsibility at home.

We spend quite a bit more time with my family than his due to location though.

[cappuccinosmom]

I don't know that it's necessarily *all* the women's faults.  The men I know are far, far less emotionally invested in where holidays are spent, and are happy to see family the day after, or a week after.  <shrug>  Dh doesn't care at all.

We go to my folks, because dh's folks are in another country.  If we lived in his country, I would absolutely want to make the necessary visits on the various holidays.  He doesn't care as much as I do, and did not go to visit his family on every holiday even during the year he's been in their country. 

My sister and her husband spent the week before and Christmas day with his family, and then came up and are spending a week with us.  THey were with his family at Thanksgiving, don't know where they will be at Easter.

My parents lived close to dad's parents for years, so they spent holidays with them.  When they lived in another state, they were caring for mom's parents, so spent holidays with them.

I'm not too concerned about my sons.  Even at this early age they are watching relational interactions and drawing conclusions about what makes a good, healthy, comfortable life.  I cannot wait to see who they choose to marry. :D

[mommaof3boz]

My mom occasionally gets "her nose out of joint" (lol) because we see my IL's more than her.  DUH we live on the same 200 acre farm as my ILs.  Also we live on a gravel road and my parents are very fussy about their vehicles driving on it (rolls eyes).  Number three: my parents have a uber fancy house and we don't feel comfortable there.  My ILs have a comfortable, nice home, with a family orientation to it.  We have a shared interest in our farm.  My kids help my ILs a lot with things they can't handle anymore.  The holidays we try to keep equal but the rest of the time the ILs definetly get more time with us.  A lot of it is who makes the son/dil and their families feel more comfortable and welcome.

[HollyBearsMom]

What's that old saying? A son is a son till he takes a wife but daughter is a daughter for all of her life.

I don't think it has anything to do about a "controlling wife" but more about a passive husband. In the op's example it didn't sound like any of the men had a voice. From what I interpret the BIL went along with the SIL and the op's husband was hurt but wasn't doing anything to change the dynamic.

We solved the SIL always traveling to their family at the holidays by just letting go. Instead we have a big post holiday get together in early january. We draw names, have a big feast, the cousins play. We don't care so much about the actual day. These are all great woman doing what they feel is right for their family. The point is family time is fun anytime and spending time as a family is important so enjoy it whenever you can.

My mom had a horrible MIL who demanded every holiday be spent with her at the expense of her own mom and dad. Her parents made her feel miserable whenever she chose her MIL which was every other year. Based on her advice we keep our holiday just us or anyone who wants to come to us. We let the drama playout around us and enjoy family time at other times!