My dd doesn't want to go to daycare/pre-school/school

[sunnygir1]

My dd will be 4 in February.  I've had her in parttime daycare off and on since she was 14 months or so.  Our most recent provider was awesome, but closed her home daycare at the end of last school year.  I had both kids at home, but found myself fairly depressed and needing a change.  I put them in 2 days a week at a childcare center (one that dd attended when she was two).  Ds (15 months) is doing okay.

Dd hates it.  She doesn't want to go.  She sobs every time I drop her off.  She has decided that she doesn't want to go to school (she's been begging me to go to the elementary school across the street where he cousin attends).  She says she doesn't like the teachers (at her daycare) that they aren't nice, that they yell, etc.  With a little questioning, it seems that they are actually just telling her and the other children to do the things they are supposed to do, etc.  It has been a couple months, and it is getting worse, not better...so something has to change.

I spoke with the director, and we came up with a couple ideas that might help 1) to allow dd to spend some time in the baby room with her brother, like at drop off and in the afternoon when she starts getting sad, and/or 2) switch her to the 4K room.  The 4K room has fewer children and they are older, so it is less rowdy, I think.  Also, she would have different teachers, which might help if her relationship with her teachers really is a problem.  I talked with dd about it last night, and she isn't interested in switching rooms.  She just cries and says she wants to be with me, and that she doesn't want to change rooms.

I did talk to her about a different center (which I'm not sure has room for her) and she said she would try that.  I don't know if there is a space for her, and it is at the university, so they have winter break until late January.  I know that they don't have room for ds, so I would be sending them to different centers (they wouldn't see each other during the day anyway if they both switched because the infants and toddlers are in a different building than the preschoolers).

I'm at a loss.  I was really hoping that I could convince her to try the 4K room; that would at least buy me a couple weeks to work something else out.  At her age is she capable of reasoning that out, or is she mostly running on emotion here?  She is pretty worked up about it; I've never really seen her this adament before -- is that a developmental stage, like she's able to think about the past and the future and worry about it?

I am working on the days they are in daycare, and I kind of need to to pay for the daycare.  The work is totally flexible, so I could take a couple weeks off, but I'd still have to pay for ds if I wanted to keep him in that center.  I am doing some legwork to see if I can find an in home daycare that might work for them -- maybe it would help to be in a smaller group and be with her brother.

Okay, I'm rambling.  Help, please!

[bobandjess99]

When my 4 yo told me she didn't like school and didn't want to go, we tried a few things, but in the end, after we made her stick out the year and start a new year, thinking maybe being older, turning 5, would help.....her attitude never changed.  She wasn't even defiant or upset, wouldn't even throw a fit or cry anymore..was just sadly resigned.  So I let her stay home.  She is now over 6 and homeschooling and loves it.  Everything about  her that I loved, the bright, vivacious, enthusiastic, HAPPY child came back.  She hasn't done it in a while, now that i think of it, but in the beginning, the first year or so, she would sometimes out of the blue make me promise never to send her away again. 

It's hard for me, because I'd like to be back at work.  I don't stay home well, I'm depressed, no-energy, HATE housework, etc, but it's so important to her.  I recvently started working again 20 hours per week, and she does get a tad upset and ask me to stay, but gets over it in a minute, and is still happy most of the time. 

[meemee]

i wish i could help... but can only commiserate.

dd started dc at 2 but seh never, never wanted to go. she is not even enthu about school either. on her hard days i keep her home if i can manage it. 

when we didnt have a choice she went to dc. if there was a choice like when i lost my job but ex wanted her there, i'd miss days or send her half time. she coped better that way.

for the first few years it wasnt i dont want to go to dc/ps. it was 'i want to be with you mommy' for both emotional need and also all the fun things we did and still do. 

[Peony]

4y DD2 went through that this fall. She was going to this amazing little preschool, she started refusing to go, saying she just wanted to be with mommy. I work part time as well, and also have some flexibility. I tried to stick it out but she was increasingly getting more miserable, not even at school but just in life. I ended up pulling her out, I dropped a few things I had going on, and she stays home with a sitter when I work which she is just fine with. 

[Aletheia]

I'm just chiming in to say that we're in the same boat right now.  I need to decide in the next couple of days what to tell my 4.5 year old's preschool.  It is a lovely place- a Montessori school that has a lot of teachers and space.  But he has been really adamant that even though there are things he likes there, he wants to be home with me.

I am happy to homeschool, but don't know how to find the time.  Often when he is at school for the 3 days a week he is there, I spend about 1/3 of the time planning for the time he is at home with me.  In other words, I can't envision homeschooling without *some* help.  (I also have a two year old, who loves school.)

So... I'm listening attentively here.  In another generation, I think it would have been expected that a 4 year old-- or any age kid- would not want to go to school, and they should just suck it up and go.  But having read as much as I have about homeschooling, and having met so many lovely homeschooling families, I'm not sure if this is the wisest route.  My 2 year old is a major extrovert and very hands-on.  My 4 year old is very introverted and cautious in all things.  His teachers tell me that he has to watch other students receive a lesson multiple times before he will attempt it himself, and then he will almost always do it perfectly on the first try.  I wonder if the perfectionist in him is having trouble coping with what he might perceive as a competitive environment?

Sorry for my rambling.  It's a difficult problem.

[LynnS6]

IME, 2 x a week is a really hard schedule at this age. They spend as much time anticipating the separation as they do experiencing it. My friends who've had kids in part time daycare have all suggested 3x a week if you must do daycare. It's much easier. We did 3x a week and I agree. Then the kids were there MWF and had a routine.

The other thing I noticed with both my kids is a 'last gasp' of separation anxiety at 4 - 4 1/2. I think they're developmentally moving on to new things and leaving early childhood behind. A consistent drop off routine and some extra time with mom and dad when we got home helped a lot.

I don't know about changing centers -- I think I'd try the new room first.

[Shazer]

My DD will be four in February, too.  She dislikes being made to do things, especially anything that separates her from me.  We are homeschooling because it is the best option for her.  What has worked in the past for me to get work done (work from home) is to hire a babysitter so I can work and still be close to the kids.  It isn't perfect because DD would rather not have a babysitter.  But if I'm close by, it makes it a whole lot easier for her.  This option has given me some time to get things done.  With her younger brother especially, DD needs one on one time with me where she has my undivided attention.  Maybe you can look into the babysitter option or see if your daughter can accompany you to work while you leave your son in daycare. 

I hope you can find a solution. 

[K1329]

I agree with the pp. I have several friends who teach preschool and they all advise to not schedule your child for anything less than 3x a week. It's too tough on the los and not enough of  a routine. However, I'm also wondering if this is a new behavior at this school? Did she enjoy school in the past? Maybe this particular program is not a good fit for your dd. Or, maybe the day is too long? Could you try more days per week, but, mornings only?

[sunnygir1]

Thank you for all your replies.  I only have a minute, but wanted to respond to a few things; maybe continue the conversation.

My dd is not introverted at all, although it has always taken her a few minutes to adjust to the new daycare environment at drop off.  Last school year we had a wonderful daycare provider, and dd loved going there.  She sometimes got a little sad at drop off, but it was nothing like what's going on right now.

Dh and I decided to try moving her to the 4K room in the same center for a couple weeks.  Unfortunately we weren't able to convince her that it was a good idea.

I agree with the return of separation anxiety...she has been saying she hates school, but also that she just wants to be with me.  And in general she has been asking to snuggle and read more, isn't sure she wants to sleep in her own bed, etc.

She has gone both 2 days and 3 days in the past.  Maybe 3 days was a little better, in retrospect.  At this center there is no half day fee for infants, so I'd have to pay a full day for ds even if I just took them mornings...not sure how I can afford that.  Their days are pretty short anyway -- I never drop off before 8:45 or 9, and often not until 10 or so, and then I usually pick up by 4, although occasionally not until 5 if I'm really busy.

It's not a financial gain for me to be working right now, more of a sanity thing.  Now that I've gotten my depression under control, maybe I can plan out a better home routine and just keep them both home for a while...let her be my baby again.

It's such a hard decision; hard to watch them suffer, hard to give up the little freedom I've gotten.  On top of it all I'm super sleep deprived from ds not sleeping well lately, so it's hard to be reasonable, ya know?

[2cutiekitties]

Only commiseration.....I am in a similiar boat and at a loss to do.

DS will be 4 in early Feb. He has been in preschool since Aug. He goes 4x a week: T-TH 9:30-1:30. We leave at 9am and get back at 2pm (unless we play at the playground, then who knows).

The first week or two was great, he seemed excited, but then that faded out. He went but didn't care about it. But these last couple of months have been unbearable. He flat out doesn't want to go, sobs when I drop him off, he never ever talks about preschool. However he seems to enjoy himself when he is there and wants to play at the playground after. All the kids like him and the teachers love him.  Last night we were all on the bed and I told my DH can you believe DS goes back to school in four days and DS had this horrified shocked look on his face and said "I don't want to go."

I would keep him home, but he doesn't just want to be home, he wants to be entertained every single second and play at the park with other kids. He wants Grandma to come entertain him (she lives in TN) or to play with papa all day. DH works from home and needs that 6 hrs of DS free time to really focus. DS won't play by himself and we do not have a yard that he can play in. There are NO kids, they are all in school and the park is dead. And as for homeschooling, he will not listen to me, so I don't see how that will work.

I just hate my position, because I feel like a really mean mama, but what am I supposed to do? Sit and stare at him all day? I did that for 3.5 years and now I need to clean and cook and take care of us and keep us healthy. Sigh.

[Smithie]

I empathize, OP. I went through a similar need to get some space from my kids when they were almost-3 and 10 months old. My DS was an INTENSE toddler. I went to work FT at a Montessori school, got a nanny for the baby and was able to bring DS to the toddler program at the Montessori school for FREE. They were training me to be a lead teacher for FREE. On paper, a great solution to my burnout and a great long-term job for a woman with little kids. In practice, I was sooooo done with it when the school year ended and soooooo glad to stop dragging my crying child into a classroom!  

The baby was fine. DS suffered. I regret it to this day. Just my .02, but working a job to provide the means to make your kid miserable is not a good way to get a respite. Try something else - in-home care, a small home-based provider with just 1 or 2 kids for your DD to play with, a regular evening sitter who comes after the kids are asleep, etc. Your needs matter - but you need to find a way to meet them that is minimally harmful to your DD. You are the adult; you are more adaptable. For me, some volunteer work has been the solution. DS getting older has also helped. We happily homeschool. I'm not burned out anymore, and the two younger kids love their preschool. 

I'm sorry if 'm coming on too strong here, but I really do wish that I could go back in time and tell my former self that making a 4 y.o. go to preschool so I could earn money we didn't need was a poor choice and did not wind up solving any of my problems. 

[kittie313]

What about hiring a homeschooled older teen or tapping into the homeschool community in your area to find a mom who would be willing to watch your kids while you work instead of using the center?  I'm a homeschool mom and have watched a kid or two for working moms as needed with no real wrinkles in my daytime routines, and when I've had extra kids around it actually made for a nice break for my girls to have another child or two to play with instead of just the same sisters all the time.

And I TOTALLY get what you mean about working more for sanity than for money.  That's the biggest reason I'm in college, I need the opportunity to do something for ME instead of always working on lessons and activities and meals, chores, etc for my kids and family.  We still haven't decided if I'll ever actually USE my ministry degree when I finish it in a few years (I'm almost done with my first semester of classes) but it has really boosted me to have this outlet of doing something for me.  So yeah, I completely understand your working.

[averlee]

Of course your daughter doesn't want to go to school and be separated from her family all day. I think that's normal. 

Center based care is often very hard on kids. Most centers allow food only at meal and snack times- a hungry child must wait. Similarly, even if exhausted, they must wait till scheduled nap time to rest. They may not have privacy in the bathroom. I taught preschool for one year and ended every day totally stressed out- could you handle kids music, the sound of crying, funky smells, kids pulling on your clothes and stepping on your feet all day? I don't think all children could stand it, either.

Also, if your child complains about the teachers, she's probably telling the truth. Preschool teachers are only required to have 12 ece units, that's 1 semester of junior college. That's all their training. They probably did not get any training on managing behavior and discipline, and they definitely do not offer teacher-training courses for meeting the emotional needs of preschoolers. And while yelling is frowned upon, it is not illegal in preschools. When I taught preschool, I yelled sometimes. There were 4 or 5 of us against like 50 preschoolers, we did our best to get them to not tear each other apart or pee down the slide. 

[mom2lucy]

THis thread has really got me thinking about my future preschool choices for DD1, who will be 3 in February.  She's exteremely bright, but very introverted and every time we talk about preschool she almost starts crying and says that she doesn't want to go.

It's such a hard decision because, unless you're going to HS (which I'm open to but DH is absolutely not), they will  be going to kindy and I don't want that to be a huge separation shock.

Ah, the choices we must make!

[3xMama]

I'm here to offer commiseration. In fact, I currently have a post going about basically the same thing! I was looking at it differently though until a few days ago. At first, I saw it more as her not wanting to do something for a myriad of reasons (fear of the unknown, dislike of certain people etc), not so much as seperation anxiety. Honestly, looking back on it, I feel a little dumb! Seperation anxiety fits perfectly!! I never even thought of it, though. Ahh, pregnancy brain. :P

I must say, in a way, I feel better seeing all these other people on here who's 4-4.5 yr olds suddenly began disliking school and having seperation anxiety about it.

I'm at a complete loss because when DD goes, after she's done sobbing which is over in about 2 mins from when we leave, she has a normal, happy day. Her teachers say she giggles, jokes, plays etc like she used to. IDKY, but she won't eat her lunch at school, she prefers to read during lunch time. So I feel like a mean mommy at drop off time, but she ends up having such a good time once she's there! She really wouldn't be happy staying at home all the time, she needs interaction with other kids. Homeschooling really isn't an option for us. DH is against it and honestly, I would have a mental breakdown trying to homeschool. I'm very short tempered trying to sit down and teach her anything and I'm sure she and I would end up hating each other within a couple of years. Plus we're barely making ends meet with me SAHMing. As the kids get older we're really going to need a second income.

One comment I got on my post was to go through DD's day with her before it started. So I'd tell her first it'll be drop off, then morning circle, then centers, then play time, then lunch, then playtime, then afternoon centers, then I'd pick her up. I haven't tried this yet, but the poster (Jillmamma!), said it worked really well for her DD when she was going through the same thing.

In your position, I think I'd look around for a smaller in home daycare that will fit your DD's needs better. It would totally make sense to me if she's overwhelmed by everything going on, esp since she was in a small in home daycare previously. I'd also recommend seeing what you can find out before talking to her about it. Getting her hopes up about going to a different daycare she thinks she'll like better just to have to tell her that it's full might make the whole situation worse. It would for my DD.

Good luck! I hope you can find something that works for you and your DD!!

[Aletheia]

OP, hang in there.  You might get other posts just like the one above.  But you are doing the right thing for you here, and that, 9 times out of 10, is going to translate to the right thing for your kids.

Some of us were born to be at home with our kids.  Others of us just have been told that we ought to be, and suffer both from the need to get out and the guilt we feel over the need.  It's not fair to twist that knife for other people, and it isn't fair to twist it in yourself, either.  If you need a break from your four kids, you need a break.  No, they don't understand that their needing you is hard on you.  But they deserve to learn, in itty bitty steps, and with a thick layer of love as the underlayment, that being a mother is HARD.  They need to know that to respect the job you are doing now, and the job they or their partner will do down the line.  I do not want either of my little boys growing up to be the sort of husband who say that no, their wife does not have a job, she's "just a mom."  Be a real person for your daughter, with real needs that you manage practically within your household economy of needs.

When I get time away from my kids to do the things that I love and need to do (this morning it was to SLEEP), I am a different person when they come back to me.  I can read Curious George 10 times, and still point out details in the pictures.  I can take the time to go get the world map and point out Hawaii when my son starts asking about volcanoes, and even get dig out the crayons and paper for an impromptu lesson about volcanic islands.  I have the energy and spirit to play fanny tag.  (As me how!)  But when I feel that all I have been doing all day is attending to the needs and wants of everyone else in the house but my own, I yell more.  I want to sit still.  I expect my 2 and  4 year old to play for longer than 20 minutes without needing me.  The house is tense.

Your child is not in daycare all day every day.  You are an obviously attentive mother to have written the original post in the first place.  You are not scarring your child by taking time for yourself, for crying out loud.  You are teaching her how to have a full and healthy life.  Hang in there!

[mom2lucy]

Originally Posted by Aletheia 

OP, hang in there.  You might get other posts just like the one above.  But you are doing the right thing for you here, and that, 9 times out of 10, is going to translate to the right thing for your kids.

Some of us were born to be at home with our kids.  Others of us just have been told that we ought to be, and suffer both from the need to get out and the guilt we feel over the need.  It's not fair to twist that knife for other people, and it isn't fair to twist it in yourself, either.  If you need a break from your four kids, you need a break.  No, they don't understand that their needing you is hard on you.  But they deserve to learn, in itty bitty steps, and with a thick layer of love as the underlayment, that being a mother is HARD.  They need to know that to respect the job you are doing now, and the job they or their partner will do down the line.  I do not want either of my little boys growing up to be the sort of husband who say that no, their wife does not have a job, she's "just a mom."  Be a real person for your daughter, with real needs that you manage practically within your household economy of needs.

When I get time away from my kids to do the things that I love and need to do (this morning it was to SLEEP), I am a different person when they come back to me.  I can read Curious George 10 times, and still point out details in the pictures.  I can take the time to go get the world map and point out Hawaii when my son starts asking about volcanoes, and even get dig out the crayons and paper for an impromptu lesson about volcanic islands.  I have the energy and spirit to play fanny tag.  (As me how!)  But when I feel that all I have been doing all day is attending to the needs and wants of everyone else in the house but my own, I yell more.  I want to sit still.  I expect my 2 and  4 year old to play for longer than 20 minutes without needing me.  The house is tense.

Your child is not in daycare all day every day.  You are an obviously attentive mother to have written the original post in the first place.  You are not scarring your child by taking time for yourself, for crying out loud.  You are teaching her how to have a full and healthy life.  Hang in there!

What a great reply. 

[sunnygir1]

Dd had her first day in the 4K room yesterday.  Dh and I decided to try it out for 2 weeks (4 daycare days).  When I got there two of her teachers immediately told me she had a great day.  One of them said, "In the other room I could barely get her to talk, today I couldn't get her to stop."  I went outside to get dd and instead of standing there watching the other children (as she often had been at pick up time) she was at the top of the slide.  She slid down and came over to greet me (no tears).  She said, "Mama, I don't like this room." But she could hardly keep from smiling as she said it.  I told her I heard that she had a good day, and she said, "I did."  She talked about her day, some friends she made, and her teachers on the way home.  I am optimistic that she is going to be happy in this room.

I have considered a couple different daycares, but would prefer not to move her if she's doing well...the less messing around, the better for her, I think.  And I like to have both children in the same place, which might not be possible if I move her to the place I think would work best for her.

[sunnygir1]

Cat, I have been searching for other options, even for occasional babysitting, but haven't come across anything yet.  I do think this is a great idea.  I have a friend who is home full time with a daughter who is dd's age.  She watches my children sometimes, and it is perfect.  I wish I could hire her on a more regular basis, but she won't take my money and she isn't always/consistently available.
 

Originally Posted by kittie313 

What about hiring a homeschooled older teen or tapping into the homeschool community in your area to find a mom who would be willing to watch your kids while you work instead of using the center?  I'm a homeschool mom and have watched a kid or two for working moms as needed with no real wrinkles in my daytime routines, and when I've had extra kids around it actually made for a nice break for my girls to have another child or two to play with instead of just the same sisters all the time.

And I TOTALLY get what you mean about working more for sanity than for money.  That's the biggest reason I'm in college, I need the opportunity to do something for ME instead of always working on lessons and activities and meals, chores, etc for my kids and family.  We still haven't decided if I'll ever actually USE my ministry degree when I finish it in a few years (I'm almost done with my first semester of classes) but it has really boosted me to have this outlet of doing something for me.  So yeah, I completely understand your working.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by sunnygir1 

 if she's doing well...

dd was doing well. or so i thought. till she told me she puts on a show. and sometimes she does enjoy herself. but as my then 4 year old would tell me 'mama just because i am not crying, just coz i am smiling and playing with everyone doesnt mean i am not sad inside missing you.' it broke my heart. but as a single mom i had no choice. it was though full time dc. 

so go by what your dd calls doing well - as opposed to what others say. dd was already at the best most expensive dc so i had no other place to really move her. we tried inhome dc but it never, never worked for her because it reminded her too much of home. 

that was when i started greiving circles. i would sit with her and tell her how sad i am that i am unable to change the situation, that i would if i could. and we'd talk about how life is sometimes this way. you just have to figure out a way around it. but man i would have given everything to just work part time. but i couldnt. 

i would spend a lot of time gently waking her up - instead of rushing thru the morning and we'd take our time to get out the door. if i could we would take a different route or have a little adventure before we went to dc. 

i knew dd truly enjoyed dc. she really did. but given a choice she'd rather be with me doing our thing.