Bedtime struggle -- was this ultimately a 'gentle' solution?

[tankgirl73]

DD is 4yo.  DH and I try very hard to be 'gentle', of course we're not perfect, but our philosophy is very much there.  If anything, HE is the one who is much more 'indulgent' when there are things that I myself would say "no, we're going to stand firm on THAT one" heh...

She's very stubborn and independent and capable.  Especially stubborn.  ;)  But, using 'gentle' techniques -- like talking about her feelings, emphasizing empathy for others, looking for compromises -- really, her stubborness isn't a terrible thing.  She's incredibly reasonable.  When she doesn't get what she wants, if she throws a tantrum, 9 times out of 10 she'll figure out a very reasonable solution once she calms down enough to think clearly.

Now that she's 4, she's reaching the point where she is starting to... well, I hate to use the word "manipulate" because that's so loaded.  But it is, in essence, what she does sometimes.  She consciously understands what negotiation is, so she will try to use it to her advantage.  We know that this is normal, it's actually quite cool to watch!  But we are trying to be careful not to let it get out of hand -- she's getting old enough to realize that she will not ALWAYS get what she wants and we're not going to just bend over and give in to her just because she whines -- or just because she doesn't!  ;)  We do pick our battles - only stuff where it really matters.  

So tonight, DH was putting her to bed.  We still 'parent' her to sleep.  DH loves his evening time with her, and on the odd night when she asks for me instead he's actually disappointed!  Tonight, after she was tucked in, she declared that she was hungry.  DH believed her, but we were already up late with company, so he wasn't going to let her go back out to the kitchen after having done the whole bedtime routine.  This is something she's been "manipulating" recently, and he decided this was where the line would be drawn.  He said he would gladly go get her a snack, suggesting a carrot, but she had to stay in bed to wait for him.

Usually, this would be fine with her.  We often do similarly for a glass of water, for instance.  But Little Miss Independent got it into her head that SHE had to go to the kitchen to peel the carrot herself!  (Something she takes great pride in being able to do)

And so, being overtired and stubborn and used to getting what she wants, she gave us a full-blown tantrum.  Screaming, thrashing, trying to get out of bed, screaming when we wouldn't let her.  I came in too when I heard it.  She was just desperately trying to go the kitchen herself!

This went on for several minutes, during which time we're, of course, questioning and doubting.  Is this the best way to deal with this?  What is the best way, if not this?  Should we just give in?  She is overtired, after all, so she's not thinking clearly, is there any harm if we let her?  Or is it for the best that she stays here after all?  Maybe going to the kitchen wouldn't even solve the tantrum, if it's just because she's overtired then she'll just find something else to tantrum about?

We're trying to offer various alternatives... mommy stays and cuddles with you while daddy goes to get the carrot.  Would that make you happy?  No.  Vice versa?  No.  What would make you happy?  "*I* go to the kitchen!!!"  That's not going to happen, sweetie, so what can we think of as a solution?  SCREAM!!!

She climbs into my lap, trying to get off the bed.  Reaches for daddy.  Daddy says okay, you can sit on my lap and cuddle.  She squirms on his lap for a minute, then screams that she wants mommy.  You want to cuddle with mommy now?  "Yes, that's what I was crying about!"

Um, okay, no it wasn't, since we offered mommy cuddles numerous times and she was only going on and on about going to the kitchen to peel her carrot.  But whatever, I'm not going to argue with a tantruming kid who seems to be calming down.

So she snuggles right into my lap and quiets down.  Daddy asks if he can go get her a carrot now, and she nods yes, perfectly calmly.  While he's out, she chats with me, "there's just one more thing I need to tell to daddy when he gets back."  When daddy returns, she sweetly tells him "I is thirsty, I need a drink of water too, please."  

So, there you go.  After all that, just like a switch was turned on (or off!), she was back to herself.  Reasonable and calm.  She munched her carrot, drank her water, climbed under her blankets, and after a few minutes of chatting with me said "I is all done talking now" and was asleep within minutes.  Poof!

We didn't "give in" to her, but we stayed with her while she struggled with coming to terms with the situation.  At no point were we punitive, and I don't think it's like where CIO "works" because the child simply becomes exhausted and gives up.  I honestly think she just suddenly accepted the situation and calmed down.  She needed time to come to terms with it, and because she was overtired, that time involved some screaming... But she was able to get there.  

I'm still not sure if this qualifies as "gentle".  There were moments when it certainly didn't seem that way!  But in the end, it did seem to work out... everyone was happy, we came to an acceptable compromise.  My gut is that it's okay for a 4yo -- or at least for this particular 4yo -- to be setting some limits like this, despite tantrums, and that the important thing is not to avoid tantrums altogether, but to work through them patiently and lovingly.  Thoughts?

[lisavark]

I think that's very gentle, especially for a four year old! I have the same rule about staying in bed after bedtime with my two year old, and I wouldn't think twice about a tantrum over it, although she rarely has one over that. But we have definitely made her stay in bed when she was crying and insisting she wasn't tired. I have picked her up and brought her back to bed (sometimes repeatedly) when she wanted to get up. Granted, my DD is chronically overtired so sometimes she has to meltdown in order to sleep (don't ask me about why she never sleeps, because I have no idea and have tried everything to change that!). But yeah, I think you handled it perfectly.

[dogretro]

Sounds fine to me.  You made a boundary, she pushed against it.  You held firm & she didn't like it, so she threw her whole self against it, hoping it would break.  You said, this is the boundary, you can have what is inside, and that is all.  Eventually, she realized that you were serious and she behaved in a way that you found acceptable.  This is called parenting :)  We are supposed to lead and guide them towards proper behaviour.  Being gentle does not mean getting walked all over, it means being non-punitive & not trying to scare your kids.