What options do you offer when kids refuse main meal you cook? - Page 6

[HollyBearsMom]

Those veggies don't need to be in attractive bite sized pieces to be cooked and plopped on a plate, either

But they do need to be cut up into bite sized pieces ("attractive" is relative) to cook properly and be easily picked up with chopsticks.   

I don't know any reason why an orange needs to have the strings taken off for any other reason than personal preference. I have nothing wrong with that preference but I do agree that at the age of 10 ( and as young as 3 or 4) a child should be able to do it themselves. 

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom 

Those veggies don't need to be in attractive bite sized pieces to be cooked and plopped on a plate, either

But they do need to be cut up into bite sized pieces ("attractive" is relative) to cook properly and be easily picked up with chopsticks.   

I don't know any reason why an orange needs to have the strings taken off for any other reason than personal preference. I have nothing wrong with that preference but I do agree that at the age of 10 ( and as young as 3 or 4) a child should be able to do it themselves. 

Phew, I'm so glad my ds isn't 10 yet and still has some grace period left in this horrible failing of his.

Yes, cut up veggies cook more easily.  Just as skinless oranges can be swallowed more easily by a person with a gag reflex.  How is that more of a personal preference than evenly cooked vegetables?  Ya know, you can eat vegetables that aren't cooked perfectly.  Some people sure are picky...
 

[Spring Lily]

Originally Posted by velochic 

SpringLily - I *WAS* the "highly sensitive" child that was a picky eater... with a mother that indulged me and made excuses for me.  It wasn't until I moved away from home to go to college that I learned that it was indulgence and that my parents never taught me that food cannot be EXACTLY as you want it to be EVERY single time you eat.  I was taught that I was entitled to have my food perfectly to my tastes at all time and the result was a very, very, very picky Velochic.  I had to learn the lessons on my own and I swore I'd never let my children (child, as it turns out) grow up that way.

My greatest lesson that food can't be perfect every time I eat was quickly learned when I moved to Moscow, Russia right out of college.  The country was in upheaval and food was not always easy to come by and when it did, it was completely different than what I was raised on.  If I didn't adapt, then I would go hungry.  I've had many of those situations in my life over the 25 or so years since then.

What I'm talking about is teaching children to be adaptable.  If they have to have something exactly a certain way each time... no, I don't think that's neurotypical.  Neurotypical kids can be taught to adapt to different situations - it's not "hardwired into the brain" that a food has to be exactly the way they want it every single time.  But they have to be taught instead of indulged.  I see SO many families where the kids dictate what is put on the table at night instead of learning that the whole family has tastes and everyone gets input into the meals.  I think that is a disservice to the kids because they are not being raised to be comfortable in a variety of culinary situations.

We travel a lot around the world and have done so for dd's whole life.  We've been in situations when there was quite literally no other food available than what was offered and what was offered was not exactly what we would consider to be very appetizing.  If dd had not be taught to be adaptable to these situations, she would have just gone hungry.  People who are indulged all their lives and are not taught to be adaptable with their food, grow up to be picky adults... and often that sense of entitlement spills over into other areas of life.  I am teaching my dd to NOT be me as a child.  It is working.

I'll also just gently remind people that approximately half of the world's population does not have a choice in the food they eat.  To indulge our children to the point that they won't eat an orange if we don't take every string off is kind of a slap in the face to the people who will never have an orange to eat ever in their lives.  I have seen these people.  Teaching children to be adaptable and appreciate what we have is part of growing up, IMHO.  Donning my flame-proof suit now as I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree.

I think this is blowing the situation out of proportion. Because some kids gag or are repulsed by certain textures does not mean they are indulged. It certainly has nothing to do with the amount & quality of foods available in other countries. (And btw, I'm sure there are people within a mile of my house that don't have anything to eat, so you don't need to use other countries as an example.) 4evermom and I have both already explained that we've helped our kids with it and they do better now because they're eating more foods than they would have. Surely you can't be suggesting that we should have forced them to eat whatever they were served, regardless of whether they gagged or screamed? That seems very unMDC-like. Or let them chose to eat only the handful of foods they like (like bread, rice, pasta, applesauce, and banana!) and leave the rest? Now that would be indulgent. Surely what I'm talking about is the middle ground, to help them learn to like new flavors and textures, why is that concept wrong?

What I have been trying to explain is that you are generalizing that allowing for any of your children's food preferences is indulging them and creating the pickiness.

That is not ALWAYS true. Sometimes it is.

I have also seen kids be indulged about being picky and have seen the results of that when they become adults. That is not what we're talking about here.

I'm simply pointing out that for some kids, there's more going on than them just being picky and spoiled. It sounds like you're making blanket statements based on your own upbringing, but it just doesn't hold true for all families and situations. I'm not sure why you are disagreeing with that.

[Dar]

Originally Posted by velochic 
My greatest lesson that food can't be perfect every time I eat was quickly learned when I moved to Moscow, Russia right out of college.  The country was in upheaval and food was not always easy to come by and when it did, it was completely different than what I was raised on.  If I didn't adapt, then I would go hungry. 

So when you needed to adapt to eating different foods you were able to do so quickly, even though you were an adult at the time. How was the way you were raised a problem, then?

FWIW, my daughter, who was pretty much "catered to" as a child, as far as food, was able to adjust to food in Russia just fine as a teen.... and she was hundreds of miles from Moscow. Well, she missed things like fruit and vegetables and she never really loved pasta with ketchup or mayonnaise with... well, *everything* , but she certainly got enough to eat, and she learned to love raw tomatoes.

I, on the other hand, still have a lot of trouble with food in most countries... I don't adjust well. I was never allowed any options if I didn't like what my family was serving. I missed meals and hoarded food and wound up with eating disorders, and while I know my family's eating rules aren't the cause of all of that, I don't think they helped, either...

[wahm]

None. I'll respond to this question with a question ...Why does one cater to a child? What lies beneath catering to a child?

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by wahm 

None. I'll respond to this question with a question ...Why does one cater to a child? What lies beneath catering to a child?

Respect for the child as a human being would be my guess since that is why I give my dd choices when it comes to meals and allow her to choose other healthy alternatives on the rare occasions when she doesn't like what is offered. 

[Smithie]

I have respect for my husband, but I don't offer him alternative entrees either.

[Dar]

Originally Posted by Smithie 

I have respect for my husband, but I don't offer him alternative entrees either.

Presumably your husband can go into the kitchen and prepare something else if he wants it, though, or drive to the store. If you're fine with your kids doing the same and they're able to do so, then I don't think you'd need to offer...

[velochic]

Originally Posted by Dar 

Originally Posted by velochic 
My greatest lesson that food can't be perfect every time I eat was quickly learned when I moved to Moscow, Russia right out of college.  The country was in upheaval and food was not always easy to come by and when it did, it was completely different than what I was raised on.  If I didn't adapt, then I would go hungry. 

So when you needed to adapt to eating different foods you were able to do so quickly, even though you were an adult at the time. How was the way you were raised a problem, then?

FWIW, my daughter, who was pretty much "catered to" as a child, as far as food, was able to adjust to food in Russia just fine as a teen.... and she was hundreds of miles from Moscow. Well, she missed things like fruit and vegetables and she never really loved pasta with ketchup or mayonnaise with... well, *everything* , but she certainly got enough to eat, and she learned to love raw tomatoes.

I, on the other hand, still have a lot of trouble with food in most countries... I don't adjust well. I was never allowed any options if I didn't like what my family was serving. I missed meals and hoarded food and wound up with eating disorders, and while I know my family's eating rules aren't the cause of all of that, I don't think they helped, either...

First of all, Russia now is not NOT Russia during the upheaval and the beginning of democracy.  It's a completely different country.  Your dd had it EASY compared to the way life was when Yeltsin became president.  The months around the fall of the Soviet Union (August 1991) were nothing like most anyone here has ever experienced.  The few years following were the most painful the country has every experienced.  Thrown into democracy with no experience being democratic turned the country on its ear.  Also, I was there as a working adult, supporting myself.  I was not a student.  Another huge difference.

Secondly, I *didn't* adjust well.  It took a year and I became anemic and was undernourished from a lack of variety.  I lived off of bread and cheese for the first year.  Food was still government issued for a while after 1991.  I didn't have access to the foods you mention above.  Everything was new to me.  Eventually things like pasta became available, but not at first.  I was lucky to make a friend in my apartment that started to teach me how to cook.  It was cooking like I had never experienced before, and I still had to get used to the flavors.  It took a very long time.  I suffered for my lack of adaptability.

Nope, I did NOT adjust easily.  It was one of the most difficult things I ever did in my life.  And it wasn't just food that I had to adjust to.  I was a spoiled American.  That move really opened my eyes.  I've been back since then and Russia is completely different.  Life is easy there now.  No comparison between when I lived there in the early 90's and when your dd was there.  None.

My dd, OTOH, had no problem when she was 4 to eat the generous, yet pitiful offerings in the small Turkish village where we were visiting.  Foods we'd never seen and sounded unappetizing (tripe soup) were no problem for her.  She just ate without a second thought.  She enjoys trying new food (duck tongue, anyone?) If I had had even a fraction of her adaptability when I moved to Russia, it wouldn't have taken me nearly as long to learn to just eat what I could find.  My dd has traveled all over the world in her 8 years and she's never had a problem adapting... she adapts better than I do even now.  I think my parents did a disservice to me by indulging me.  I refuse to raise her the same way.  It works for my family.

[Bellabaz]

We had a really bad period last fall where every night, no matter what we made, dinner was a battle with our older daughter. What is in place now and what is working for us is first and for most make sure she is eating lunch and snack during the day. it turns out she wasn't liking hte lunch at school and wouldn't eat enough and would just have break downs by dinner time here. So I make sure to go over her lunch menu with her and see what she ate each day and I give a decent snack after school with protein.

That said, what is on the table is dinner. We are careful to always have at least one thing on it we know she will eat. Otherwise, we eat fruit for desert and she can always have fruit. People who don't eat veggies can't have any special deserts (occasionally we have cake or cookies or something). Things are going much better so far. We are keeping our fingers crossed. FTR, Eva is almost 4. I think some it may be age related too. But really, we just couldn't do the daily battle anymore, ruining everyone's evening.

The lo is 16 months. If she refuses food she gets cereal, leftovers or crackers with peanut butter because I don't want to wake up at 2am because she is hungry =)

[laneysprout]

Getting kids to eat is a two-way street.  It's our job to provide healthy, nutritious foods and their job to eat it.  While my DD may not eat what we prepare for any given meal, when I look at what she eats over the course of a day, week, or month, I worry less.  I think it's important for kids to learn to regulate their appetites, and I encourage her to listen to her body.  Sometimes, this means she doesn't eat when *I* want her, too.  I just keep reminding myself that I'm doing my part and I need to trust her to do hers.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by velochic 

I'll also just gently remind people that approximately half of the world's population does not have a choice in the food they eat.  To indulge our children to the point that they won't eat an orange if we don't take every string off is kind of a slap in the face to the people who will never have an orange to eat ever in their lives.  I have seen these people.  Teaching children to be adaptable and appreciate what we have is part of growing up, IMHO.  Donning my flame-proof suit now as I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree.

I don't disagree about the worldwide hunger/choice issue. 

But I am raising my child here where learning to navigate the choices available is actually one of the food issues.

To provide another story, I grew up in a home where food was absolutely controlled by my mother. Portions were set out before everyone sat down to dinner and if you happened to have been active all day and hungrier than usual, too bad - even when there was food left, because the leftovers were controlled as well. Even vegetables.  Although it wasn't one of those "clear your plate or you will eat it tomorrow" homes, my mother's investment in her cooking was such that if you said you didn't care for something (even when asked) there was an emotional storm that often hit wildly. ("I don't know why I bother" and then two days of a strike where perhaps almost no food was available.) We were not that poor; we definitely had a strict budget but it was self-imposed.

My mum also went through health phases and then junk phases, so one year everything with sugar would disappear and it would all be carob and soy nuts (70s :)),  And then another year she might be on a feminist phase of not "cooking" so it would all be Hamburger Helper and Chef Boy-ar-dee and tv dinners and take out.

You can add to this that my mother is not a gifted cook, and she has some OCD issues so that for example, all chicken would have to be cooked way past what most people would consider to be done. Like dessicated. 

I will say that my palate probably was slightly more expanded than it would have been otherwise because of the emotional atmosphere, but I wasn't naturally that picky anyway. But my relationship to food was a disaster.  Because of the portion control when I hit my teens I was hungry all the time, and dreaded each meal, and would get yelled at for taking crackers out of the cupboard. I'd say though that it was feeling that I was not allowed any preferences at all that drove me emotionally.

I started to buy food on the way home from school pretty early on and hide it and gorge - probably around grade 5, although I didn't have much money until I was babysitting more, so grade 8.  It wasn't just about hunger, but also to be kind of numbed out on food. I ate fast food and I would shop discount stores for huge bags of cookies. I got an extra job at the school library to buy food. Occasionally I would even take change from my dad's dresser top to feed my habit. I was pretty active, so I wasn't hugely overweight but as my growth slowed it started to show.

In university we still had the old unlimited food meal plans and I went. nuts. The industrial cafeteria food had more taste than a lot of my mum's food, and there was no tension, but good conversation with friends. I probably gained about 25 lbs my first year.

When I moved out on my own, I had food hoarding issues. In my first apartment after marriage I filled two closets with canned food and wasted so much that would go bad in the fridge.  I still start to feel nervous if we have fewer than 5 cans of pasta sauce, etc.  Between my husband, who's a great cook, and me, we both ended up gaining weight. It was only in my late 20s that I realized I had a problem (after a tower of cans fell onto my toe) and started to downgrade my 'stash' and when I was in therapy later on it was one of the things we worked on

So although I do agree that we can and should guide our kids with different flavours and meals and I'm not a fan of the "make the kids nuggets" mode, the fact is that if I'm going to err I would rather have a slightly more indulged and pickier kid who knows his own tastes and body than anything like how I grew up. 

Now as I said, though, my son is naturally a pretty reasonable eater in terms of breadth (he eats tiny portions).  If I had a child who was down to three foods I'd have to reconsider a bit and get some more advice.

[velochic]

You make a good point, GuildJenn.  Learning to navigate food choices is more difficult when you have more options.  Perhaps over-abundance is the root issue here.  Because in my dh's very large family in Turkey, there isn't a single picky eater and not one person has food issues.  They have a much more narrow range of choices, though, and over-abundance isn't something that they know - just whatever is available, they eat.  There is no chance of getting mom to make something different.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by velochic 

You make a good point, GuildJenn.  Learning to navigate food choices is more difficult when you have more options.  Perhaps over-abundance is the root issue here.  Because in my dh's very large family in Turkey, there isn't a single picky eater and not one person has food issues.  They have a much more narrow range of choices, though, and over-abundance isn't something that they know - just whatever is available, they eat.  There is no chance of getting mom to make something different.

Well I know picky eating Indian and Chinese raised adults, so I don't know if it's just a Western issue, but I can speak to my perception of the Western issue. :)

I think some cultures actually kind of support picky eating - like if you have rice with every single meal, that's a kid-friendly staple for your culture.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by velochic 

My dd, OTOH, had no problem when she was 4 to eat the generous, yet pitiful offerings in the small Turkish village where we were visiting.  Foods we'd never seen and sounded unappetizing (tripe soup) were no problem for her.  She just ate without a second thought. 

It sounds like you started out with a naturally adaptable child who enjoyed eating food in general.  I suspect you're giving your child raising techniques full credit when some is due to your dd's genetic input on her father's side.  In contrast, I was like your dd.  I ate anything and assumed ds would be similar.  But I had a child who had essentially no interest in putting anything but my breast in his mouth.  He didn't really start eating food beyond a few bites until he was three and I began figuring out his texture issue.  Other than food, he's a pretty adaptable kid, too.  I didn't start with a child who would eat much variety of food and "indulge" him to the point where he eats fewer foods prepared in more specific ways like you imply.  I started out with a child hesitant to eat anything that wasn't dry and crunchy or breastmilk and "indulged" him to the point where he will eat most common to our culture non-spicy foods.  He is much like his father.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn 

I think some cultures actually kind of support picky eating - like if you have rice with every single meal, that's a kid-friendly staple for your culture.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by velochic 

You make a good point, GuildJenn.  Learning to navigate food choices is more difficult when you have more options.  Perhaps over-abundance is the root issue here.  Because in my dh's very large family in Turkey, there isn't a single picky eater and not one person has food issues.  They have a much more narrow range of choices, though, and over-abundance isn't something that they know - just whatever is available, they eat.  There is no chance of getting mom to make something different.

That is how my family was and both my brother and I are very picky eaters, we will go hungry rather than eat something we don't like the look, smell, taste, or texture of and that has always been the case.  I think it can go either way whether your family respects your desire to have an alternative healthy food or not.  Personality probably has a lot more to do with it than being forced to choose between gagging something you can't stand down or going hungry. 

[velochic]

Originally Posted by 4evermom 

Originally Posted by velochic 

My dd, OTOH, had no problem when she was 4 to eat the generous, yet pitiful offerings in the small Turkish village where we were visiting.  Foods we'd never seen and sounded unappetizing (tripe soup) were no problem for her.  She just ate without a second thought. 

It sounds like you started out with a naturally adaptable child who enjoyed eating food in general.  I suspect you're giving your child raising techniques full credit when some is due to your dd's genetic input on her father's side.  In contrast, I was like your dd.  I ate anything and assumed ds would be similar.  But I had a child who had essentially no interest in putting anything but my breast in his mouth.  He didn't really start eating food beyond a few bites until he was three and I began figuring out his texture issue.  Other than food, he's a pretty adaptable kid, too.  I didn't start with a child who would eat much variety of food and "indulge" him to the point where he eats fewer foods prepared in more specific ways like you imply.  I started out with a child hesitant to eat anything that wasn't dry and crunchy or breastmilk and "indulged" him to the point where he will eat most common to our culture non-spicy foods.  He is much like his father.

Of course I'm giving our child-rearing techniques credit.  But like your ds, my dd did not even want to taste solids until she was over a year old.  She was still getting most of her nutrition from BM at nearly 2 yo and didn't wean until she was 4 (although the last 6 months were few nursings far between).  She was picky as hell her first couple of years.  You are saying your ds has a texture issue.  Therein lies the difference.  That is not what I would consider to be neurotypical.  That's a sensory integration issue.  My dd was just lazy - she has no sensory issues.  BM is sweet and was instantly available and that was her preference.  But once she started eating, I never fed her processed or fast food and the food she ate was not the same thing all the time (and she was exposed to world cuisine from the age of eating solids).  Heck yeah, I'm going to give my child raising technique credit.  I could have given her crap McDonalds all the time and she would have gotten used to the processed, salty, fatty food instead of healthy home-cooked, from scratch with lots of spices food.  She would have ended up picky.  The factor of her father's side of the family is that they live in a 3rd world country and have no luxury for pickiness.  It has nothing to do with genetics, it has to do with what's available.  And again, we're talking about kids who do NOT have sensory issues.

[4evermom]

Oh, OK.  Thanks for the diagnosis.  

Now it sounds like we parent exactly the same way and are getting different results due to something that isn't genetics.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by 4evermom 

Oh, OK.  Thanks for the diagnosis.  

Now it sounds like we parent exactly the same way and are getting different results due to something that isn't genetics.

I guarantee you that we don't parent the same way. Everybody parents differently.  As for the "diagnosis", as you put it, were you not the one who said that your child has texture issues?  Is that not sensory?  So many here say that their child isn't picky, but have sensory issues and texture is one of them.  I'm just echoing what I've learned here - texture issues are due to sensory input, not pickiness.