What options do you offer when kids refuse main meal you cook? - Page 5

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by Smithie 

"A parent can't just wait for their kid to get old enough to fix all their own food the way they like it, and in the meantime only eat a handful of foods."

Well, they can. I'm not saying that one has to, or even that one should, but people did reach adulthood quite reliably in the days when an orange was a Christmas-stocking treat that one wouldn't dream of complaining about, and criticizing your mother's cooking was a punishable offense. I'd rather listen to the criticism (at home, in private) than have my kids be quietly gagging over my meals, but I also really, truly think it's better for a kid to not eat oranges for a few years than to watch his mother painstakingly strip off the membranes (and then be all happy that he's eating - that's a whole 'nuther thread).  I have a four-year who doesn't care for the "white stuff" on oranges. No problem. Oranges are never, ever the only thing offered at a meal. I'm fairly certain that she'll eat oranges someday - assuming that I can keep those mandarins-in-a-cup nastiness out of my house and make sure that her palate isn't keyed into the fake, processed, sanitized version of a whole food. 

It's OK not to like some foods. It's even OK not eat at a meal if nothing on the table appeals to you. I think we're all agreed about that. But I don't have time or money or patience to waste on preparing invalid fare for my healthy children, and I don't think "picky" or "highly sensitive" in developmentally normal children is a condition that is helped by doing such meal prep. Remember, what we are trying to get out of all this is an adult who can eat in a way that is socially neutral. Spending ten minutes massaging their orange is not the way to get there IMNSHO. 

Word. 

I am neurotypical, and was a picky kid.  I learned from an early age to modify foods to fit my texture and taste preferences, scraping, shoving to the side, picking off, etc. becasue the alternative was....well, not eating.  Self preservation and hunger are motivators, for sure - and I have ZERO resentment towards my parents at all; it would never even occur to them to offer me an alternative for the dinner my mom made for all of us.  I could leave piles of stuff on my plate after eating around them or cleaning them off or whatever that would make my mom laugh out loud in bemusement, I was so thorough in separating what I wanted from what I didn't want - and there was a realtively substantial list of things I didn't want (or didn't want mixed together).  And here is further anecdata:  I am having to actively teach my kids this skill because *I have been doing it for them for several years and they don't know how*.  They are entirely capable at 4 and almost 7 to pick stuff apart and leave what they don't want.  I had to actually explain to them how to dissect a lasagna so they didn't have to eat the ricotta. But now that I've started explaining it to them, they've started doing it on their own to other casserol-y/stew-y combination foods (which is really their only objectionable food type right now).  I could scrape sauce off a chicken breast like a pro, and weed out diced onions from a meal like nobody's business.  Should I feel mad at my mom for forcing me to do that?  I'm actually pretty glad she didn't cater to my neurotypical neuroses (that everyone has) and just let me do my thing to make my meals acceptable.   For a neurotypical kid, there's NO reason they can't learn to take stuff apart on their own to suit their tastes...and if they don't want to do that, then they can just eat whatever they find acceptable that's been served until they're ready to take apart whatever it is.  I believe that all of us have agreed that there's always *something* on the table that the child likes, so nobody is being forced to eat a plateful of foods they don't like. 

I think *everyone* has their "things".  Neurotypical neuroses and pickiness and sensitivities, I just, I don't feel like everything needs to be catered to.  People with diagnosable medical issues, YES.  Absolutely with a capital A, should have accommodations.  But neurotypical people with garden variety quirks and pickiness?  Meh, everyone has quirks.  If you would cry eating potatoes, don't eat potatoes if someone serves them to you - I don't see anyone on here saying they'd force a kid to eat an entire serving of something that would make them cry.  Take a small polite serving, push it around, and then eat whatever else is on your plate and be thankful that someone cooked something for you.  Then eat again at your next snack or meal.  I have to be honest, and will put on my flame-proof suit here, but a lot of this conversation, when pertaining to neurotypical but quirky people sounds like speshul snowflake syndrome to me.  And to be clear, I am guilty of having the syndrome myself sometimes, but I'm working on it.  How does that saying go?  "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should." 

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa 

It just strikes me as entirely disrespectful to require someone, big or small, to eat something they don't want to eat or to eat at a time they don't feel like eating.

It strikes me as unusual that you wouldn't want to have people on basically the same eating routine if there are regular snacks and meals available.  If you have a smaller appetite, eat less at each meal and snack so you still want to eat every few hours; if you have a larger appetite, then eat more at each sitting so you can go longer until the next snack or meal.  It just seems weird to me to have people living in the same house on different eating timetables on a regular basis.  If you're talking about a one-off, then sure, we all have times when something is up that we don't want to eat and the person is excused....but not as a regular thing.  We all need and want to eat at regular intervals, so we've tweaked it so those intervals coincide and we have as many meals and snacks together as we can.  Sharing food together at a table is an important thing to both DH and me, so it's something we're teaching the kids as well.  I guess some of it might just be the personal values on meals and food in general.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by Spring Lily 

Originally Posted by velochic 

Not to be obnoxious or judgmental, but can't he peel the membranes himself?  This is, to me, a perfect example of the type of behaviour that, when indulged over a long period of time, leads to the pickiness (i.e. "I won't eat the orange... it has strings on it!!!!!!!!!!!!").  I would draw the line there and tell a 10 year old that if s/he wanted the orange perfectly clean they could do it themselves.  If that's what it takes to get a child to eat fruit, perhaps a different approach is needed?

Ah, you're assuming that refusing to eat something is a whim on the kids part and that going along with it is what causes the pickiness. You've got it backwards. The pickiness it what started the whole thing! You are biased about it from the start, just by your use of the word indulgence. that may be true for some kids, but highly sensitive kids are different, and deserve tolerance and understanding.Like I said, many kids are hardwired to be picky about tastes or textures. Their own brain is the cause. The kid just will not eat it otherwise. A parent can't just wait for their kid to get old enough to fix all their own food the way they like it, and in the meantime only eat a handful of foods. You work with what you've got, and you accept your kids for who they are.

  Lest people think I spend hours a day with tweezers preparing my ds's food, he hadn't eaten oranges in a year.  Sure, I could not do these things and have him never eat fruit or vegetables.  But I like to keep his palate exposed to the variety of things he will eat so he can continue to expand them.

Originally Posted by velochic 

Originally Posted by Spring Lily Like I said, many kids are hardwired to be picky about tastes or textures. Their own brain is the cause. The kid just will not eat it otherwise. A parent can't just wait for their kid to get old enough to fix all their own food the way they like it, and in the meantime only eat a handful of foods. You work with what you've got, and you accept your kids for who they are.

Bolding mine.  We are talking about kids who are neurotypical.  What you are describing is not neurotypical.  Neurotypical kids who do not have SIA or other issues... having the parent take every little string off of the orange when the child is 10 years of age and perfectly capable of doing it themselves... yes, I call that indulgence.  My dd doesn't necessarily like the strings on the orange, but since she was about 2.5 years old, she was free to take off as much of the string as she wanted.  She learned that it wasn't really worth it and after a couple of years stopped taking the strings off and got used to them... but she's neurotypical and not picky. 

My ds is as neurotypical as the next person who thinks wool is scratchy or whatever.  If he isn't neurotypical, then no one in my family is, lol.  Being discriminating about tastes and textures is very much a natural way to be.  It's a strong self preservation instinct that isn't as important when we get our food from grocery stores as it is when we forage for it.  It's especially common in kids and becomes more minimal as they age.  Ds also has a strong gag reflex which I suspect he protects with his food texture preferences.  Sure he could peel the fruit himself if he was interested enough in the results.  He isn't.  And I feel an odd obligation to encourage him to eat a little fruit or vegetables every once in a while.  Crazy, I know.  And we are getting exactly where we want to be with ds developing into a well adjusted polite adult who will be invited back to meals.  I don't care if others would take a more forceful approach.  I just think they should manage to be mature enough and polite enough to accept people are different and not have visceral reactions to it (unless they aren't neurotypical ), especially when they aren't even responsible for the person in question.
 

[Smithie]

"but I do make a lot of things that can be customized by the person eating it at the table..."

Oh, me too. I feel like I'm coming off as the Food Nazi here, but in reality, my meals are very, very friendly to picky folk. I am, in fact, surrounded by picky adult eaters, which is one of the reasons that I am so gung-ho about food manners and refuse to be made miserable at the table by a litany of what's wrong with the food and how it could be improved by increased effort on my part. 

WRT the neurotypical issue - it's a continuum. My son has ADHD with heightened anxiety. In one sense, he is not neurotypical. But I don't think that lowering my expectations around food manners would help him in any way. He's much better off skipping the entree and just eating the bread or fruit or whatever he finds inoffensive than complaining about "touching foods" or "yucky vegetables on my plate" and having a positive social experience turn into a negative one as the entire family/class/restaurant turns their attention away from their conversation, and towards DS and his "special needs." 

(DS is almost 7, BTW. I didn't expect this kind of social restraint and consideration of others when he was a toddler!)

[Brendalee]

I think in some ways, timing plays a part.  At least in my experiences.

The older boy was never a particularly picky eater, but sitting down to dinner at 5pm or later was a setup for trouble.  He could have his most favoritestestest food on the planet, and would be whiny & not eat it.  Sit him down at 4pm with a food he'd never seen before & he'd gobble it right up.  He just wasn't hungry later in the day; he could eat a snack at 3pm and still eat dinner at 4pm, but not at 5:30pm.  It took me a WHILE to figure this one out.  In a similar vein, naps earlier in the day (10-11am) were far more productive than a nap at 1pm.  *shrug*

This *did* create a small problem, in that the family wanted to have dinner together, but when it was just a whinefest (and not about the food in particular, but anything in general), the solution was offering the boys dinner earlier, then when Daddy came home everyone still sat at the table together.  The boys could have a snack if they wanted, but OB usually just played with a car toy or two while engaging in the family conversation that happened at the dinner table.

And everyone got the same food. I wasn't cooking 2 meals!  *LOL*  I was also super-flexible about what was served; sometimes there was steak for breakfast & sometimes yogurt and eggs for dinner.  I also found out that serving their "biggest" meal (which most people leave for dinner) at lunchtime worked better overall.  So, lunch might have been a nice stew & dinner a sandwich or wrap & a little salad.  They seemed to sleep better with the lighter meal later in the day.

~Brendalee

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by Smithie 

"but I do make a lot of things that can be customized by the person eating it at the table..."

Oh, me too. I feel like I'm coming off as the Food Nazi here, but in reality, my meals are very, very friendly to picky folk. I am, in fact, surrounded by picky adult eaters, which is one of the reasons that I am so gung-ho about food manners and refuse to be made miserable at the table by a litany of what's wrong with the food and how it could be improved by increased effort on my part. 

WRT the neurotypical issue - it's a continuum. My son has ADHD with heightened anxiety. In one sense, he is not neurotypical. But I don't think that lowering my expectations around food manners would help him in any way. He's much better off skipping the entree and just eating the bread or fruit or whatever he finds inoffensive than complaining about "touching foods" or "yucky vegetables on my plate" and having a positive social experience turn into a negative one as the entire family/class/restaurant turns their attention away from their conversation, and towards DS and his "special needs." 

(DS is almost 7, BTW. I didn't expect this kind of social restraint and consideration of others when he was a toddler!)

Yes, I expect my ds to politely decline any foods he doesn't like.  He has always had good social awareness so I'd have been taken aback by him complaining (and would have assumed he was way too hungry to keep it together) at a meal with anyone other than just me.  I don't pick apart his food for him when we are at a meal.  I do think having his food preferences respected makes it easier for him to be polite.  He never had to get whiney or loud to be heard...  I imagine he might have resorted to that if I didn't figure out his texture issues and tried to coerce him to eat things that made him feel like gagging.  So not knowing other people's kids as well, I'll assume they have reason for their behavior and simply be glad it isn't my child. 
 

[oaktreemama]

 I am, in fact, surrounded by picky adult eaters, which is one of the reasons that I am so gung-ho about food manners and refuse to be made miserable at the table by a litany of what's wrong with the food and how it could be improved by increased effort on my part. 

My boss took a bunch of us to a really nice restaurant. Some of us got a great seafood platter and a few of the other people just went on and on about how "gross" it was, or how it "smelled yucky." And these were grownups!! And neurotypical grownups at that.

So, I am sorry if it makes me a food Nazi but my son is not going to act like that at the table. Of course I have age appropriate expectations and I do consider strong dislikes. But, he is being taught that we expect good manners at the table regardless of what is served.

[crazyms]

My kids are 3 and 5 and they pretty much eat what I make. I'm not a short order cook. I already make 3 meals a day for 4 people plus at least one sometimes 2 snacks a day. That's more than enough! That said I am the picky eater out of all of us. Dh will eat anything and the kids are good about eating all kinds of food. I try to add more veggies into meals and such though so that we get more of them. I just try to plan meals that we all like. I don't force them to eat everything on their plates but I don't make them anything different either. They usually eat what was made. I think most of the time they are just testing me or they may not be ready to eat yet. I do try to make meals with a variety of things we all like though and just let them eat what they want of it. Like the soup I made last night. DD ate two bowls of it but not one piece of meat out of it and ended up leaving most of the potatoes too. Nothing else left in the bowl either time. DS ended up eating some of everything but leaving a few veggies left over. Over all they get a good balanced diet. I have noticed at this age some days they seem to not eat much of anything. Even if I offer something I *know* they love. I'm afraid they must be going hungry and worry all day but they just don't eat much. The next day they may eat huge helpings at every meal and maybe even seconds. Their appetites definitely seem to come and go so I think that changes how much of a dinner they eat most of the time, not whether or not they really liked it.

[UnschoolnMa]

It strikes me as unusual that you wouldn't want to have people on basically the same eating routine if there are regular snacks and meals available.

Hmmm. We didn't have a schedule for meals (or much of anything else really lol). We did fall into something of a loose routine or pattern of sorts though. For years we didn't even have a dining room table. We've never required communal eating, though we often did eat together. It was never "breakfast at 7, lunch at 11, snack at 2, etc". Before we pulled the kids out to unschool we'd offer some breakfast in the morning if they wanted it. When the children were young I always made them meals, and when they got older the one standard meal of the day was dinner... usually around 6 or 7 pm. Essentially though? We ate when we were hungry to the extent that option was possible. :)

Sharing food together at a table is an important thing to both DH and me, so it's something we're teaching the kids as well.  I guess some of it might just be the personal values on meals and food in general.

That's a good point; how each family or person values food. Every family has an "eating culture" and that's got to play a large role. The eating culture of our family is what I would call half and half: very communal and very individual. Our kitchen has always been the hub of activity. It's where you'd find everyone naturally gathering to talk, where parties both planned and impromptu happened, etc. Often during food prep my kids would just appear and help, it's where my Ds and I would talk for hours in the middle of the night when he was a young teenager while eating some leftover thing. But regularly scheduled dining hasn't ever been part of our culture. The individual aspect is that we all just ate when and what we want. And where. Often my kids would choose to eat in their room, outside in good weather, or not at all. :)

[Spring Lily]

Originally Posted by Smithie 

It's OK not to like some foods. It's even OK not eat at a meal if nothing on the table appeals to you. I think we're all agreed about that. But I don't have time or money or patience to waste on preparing invalid fare for my healthy children, and I don't think "picky" or "highly sensitive" in developmentally normal children is a condition that is helped by doing such meal prep. Remember, what we are trying to get out of all this is an adult who can eat in a way that is socially neutral. Spending ten minutes massaging their orange is not the way to get there IMNSHO. 

As I said above, I don't make special meals. I'm just talking about setting up a child's plate according to their own preferences, like being more careful with corn or orange strings on one plate, or separating the vegetables, or making sure the foods don't touch, that sort of thing. I don't make separate meals. But I see nothing wrong with making some alterations to the meal everyone else is eating, according to my kids' preferences. We've also learned a lot about nutrition and health in the last few generations, and I know that if I can get my kids to try and like a variety of foods at ages 0-5, that will have an enormous influence on their taste throughout life. Waiting until they might want to try it later just doesn't cut it for me.

Originally Posted by velochic 


Bolding mine.  We are talking about kids who are neurotypical.  What you are describing is not neurotypical.  Neurotypical kids who do not have SIA or other issues... having the parent take every little string off of the orange when the child is 10 years of age and perfectly capable of doing it themselves... yes, I call that indulgence.  My dd doesn't necessarily like the strings on the orange, but since she was about 2.5 years old, she was free to take off as much of the string as she wanted.  She learned that it wasn't really worth it and after a couple of years stopped taking the strings off and got used to them... but she's neurotypical and not picky. 

I'm sorry, my kids ARE neurotypical. Maybe your definition doesn't take into account the full range of typical. It doesn't sound like your child is as sensitive, which is fine and must make it easier for you. But there are plenty of neurotypical children that are more picky about those things. If you don't have a highly sensitive child, aren't highly sensitive yourself, and have no knowledge of it, then it's coming off as awfully judgemental to tell people here that their kids are neurologically atypical.

As far as the other poster's orange example, I can only say that my child is 4.5years old and able to take the strings off herself, but when she was younger I, too, peeled the membranes for her. She decided she liked them and we worked up from there. With some kids it takes more effort to get them to eat a variety of foods.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by Spring Lily 

As far as the other poster's orange example, I can only say that my child is 4.5years old and able to take the strings off herself, but when she was younger I, too, peeled the membranes for her. She decided she liked them and we worked up from there. With some kids it takes more effort to get them to eat a variety of foods.

Yup.  And guess what ds asked for as a snack today?  Oranges.  I can count on one hand the number of times he has asked for fruit or vegetables so that was worth it.  Btw, I don't peel grapes anymore .  

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa 

It strikes me as unusual that you wouldn't want to have people on basically the same eating routine if there are regular snacks and meals available.

Hmmm. We didn't have a schedule for meals (or much of anything else really lol). We did fall into something of a loose routine or pattern of sorts though. For years we didn't even have a dining room table. 

Same here (right down to the lack of dining room table).  I suppose if I had more than one child, I might want to prepare their food at the same time.  We are together so much of the time, what with homeschooling and all, that a meal time is not as important of a time to be together.  I also prefer that people eat when they are hungry rather than when food is served.  I always hated waiting for meals as a kid.  They invariably weren't ready when we were told they would be and I'd be hungry yet discouraged from having a snack.  Also, I don't think ds is naturally a regular person.  Some people naturally have a sleeping, waking, hunger, bathroom schedule.  My ds has always been all over the place with all of those things...  Sit down meals are not a priority.  I'll make big batches of things for dh and me to minimize cooking since it isn't really something I enjoy.   

[BetsyS]

Family "food culture" does make a big difference. 

I have 3 children in 4 years.  The oldest is just at the point of getting some of his own snacks.  So, that means, every time it's snack time, it is ME getting the snack out, helping them to eat it (by cutting it up or peeling fruit or whatever), then cleaning up.  Sure, they help, but I do the bulk of it.  It only makes sense that we all snack/eat together to leave just a little bit of time for other stuff. 

So, for me, eating to hunger is a good, admirable thing.  But, in our house, it was at the cost of leisure time and reading books time and time to just play with mama, so it wasn't a good enough goal to endure the cost.

[velochic]

SpringLily - I *WAS* the "highly sensitive" child that was a picky eater... with a mother that indulged me and made excuses for me.  It wasn't until I moved away from home to go to college that I learned that it was indulgence and that my parents never taught me that food cannot be EXACTLY as you want it to be EVERY single time you eat.  I was taught that I was entitled to have my food perfectly to my tastes at all time and the result was a very, very, very picky Velochic.  I had to learn the lessons on my own and I swore I'd never let my children (child, as it turns out) grow up that way.

My greatest lesson that food can't be perfect every time I eat was quickly learned when I moved to Moscow, Russia right out of college.  The country was in upheaval and food was not always easy to come by and when it did, it was completely different than what I was raised on.  If I didn't adapt, then I would go hungry.  I've had many of those situations in my life over the 25 or so years since then.

What I'm talking about is teaching children to be adaptable.  If they have to have something exactly a certain way each time... no, I don't think that's neurotypical.  Neurotypical kids can be taught to adapt to different situations - it's not "hardwired into the brain" that a food has to be exactly the way they want it every single time.  But they have to be taught instead of indulged.  I see SO many families where the kids dictate what is put on the table at night instead of learning that the whole family has tastes and everyone gets input into the meals.  I think that is a disservice to the kids because they are not being raised to be comfortable in a variety of culinary situations.

We travel a lot around the world and have done so for dd's whole life.  We've been in situations when there was quite literally no other food available than what was offered and what was offered was not exactly what we would consider to be very appetizing.  If dd had not be taught to be adaptable to these situations, she would have just gone hungry.  People who are indulged all their lives and are not taught to be adaptable with their food, grow up to be picky adults... and often that sense of entitlement spills over into other areas of life.  I am teaching my dd to NOT be me as a child.  It is working.

I'll also just gently remind people that approximately half of the world's population does not have a choice in the food they eat.  To indulge our children to the point that they won't eat an orange if we don't take every string off is kind of a slap in the face to the people who will never have an orange to eat ever in their lives.  I have seen these people.  Teaching children to be adaptable and appreciate what we have is part of growing up, IMHO.  Donning my flame-proof suit now as I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree.

[oaktreemama]

I do agree with much of what you say Velochic. I see this kind of behavior in my nieces. Both were catered too and indulged when it came to food-their Mom would even jump up from HER dinner to make them something else if suddenly what was offered wasn't good enough. But one developed Celiac Disease and suddenly there went the nightly dinners of plain spaghetti and mac-n-cheese. She realized that salmon is actually good. She adores sushi. She HAD to adapt if she wanted to eat and she did. Her sister by the way still eats plain chicken.

I suspect that most of the differences really do come to down to cultural values about food. A few months ago I posted a thread about how my MIL brought over "used" dip. I thought it was really gross, but many here thought it perfectly acceptable.

There are many ways to get to the same place with our kids and we aren't going to agree on all of them. I think most here want to raise polite kids who simply say "no thank you" rather then "ewwwwwwwwww."

Here's where you lose me though:

 To indulge our children to the point that they won't eat an orange if we don't take every string off is kind of a slap in the face to the people who will never have an orange to eat ever in their lives

I can appreciate that there are many people who lack the most basic resources that I take for granted. I am not going to make my kid eat every bite because "there are starving kids in China who would kill for that food." And I guess I feel like that you are rephrasing that age old argument. I don't think allowing some pickiness leads to entitlement. Would I destring an orange? Nope, not on your life. Cutting the crusts off of bread is about as far as I'll go-the dog loves crusts anyways. Do I think it is a slap in the face to starving people? No.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by oaktreemama 
Quote:

 To indulge our children to the point that they won't eat an orange if we don't take every string off is kind of a slap in the face to the people who will never have an orange to eat ever in their lives

I can appreciate that there are many people who lack the most basic resources that I take for granted. I am not going to make my kid eat every bite because "there are starving kids in China who would kill for that food." And I guess I feel like that you are rephrasing that age old argument. I don't think allowing some pickiness leads to entitlement. Would I destring an orange? Nope, not on your life. Cutting the crusts off of bread is about as far as I'll go-the dog loves crusts anyways. Do I think it is a slap in the face to starving people? No.

It has nothing to do with "cleaning your plate".  What I am saying is that it is important for people in wealthy western countries to keep in mind that we're privileged to have the variety that we have.  An orange is an orange is an orange.  And there are a lot of people in this world that would love to just have the orange - not to stave off starvation, but just to have the pleasure of a juicy sweet orange dripping down their chins.  I guarantee you that they wouldn't be worrying about the strings in the orange!!  Letting our kids turn up their noses at an orange that has too much "string" on it (as the ongoing example) is, IMO, really...  I don't know a kind way of saying it.  Horrible, I suppose.  I think that we need to teach our children to appreciate what they have instead of going so far that it has to be so exact and perfect.  Some adults still need to learn this.  It's like people who won't eat an apple unless it is pristine or a banana unless it's without any brown spots.  We are absolutely the most privileged country on the planet and I think it's important that kids learn to appreciate that.  It's not about "starving kids" anywhere else.  It's about respecting our abundance in the West.

[oaktreemama]

 We are absolutely the most privileged country on the planet and I think it's important that kids learn to appreciate that. 

We are terribly privileged. We can try to help our kids understand that. I just don't agree that we can do it through food preferences. We'll have to agree to disagree because I still think your analogy about being grateful for that orange is still going down the same road as being grateful for having food you really dislike because so many kids don't even have that choice. And I don't think that is a way to teach appreciation. I think it might be a good way to teach resentment though.

But as I said before I think food issues are loaded with many cultural biases/expectations/experiences and where I am coming from is not where others are coming from. :)

[Dar]

But you could say that about so many things that we in the West enjoy... we have the privilege to chose our fancy clothes and bottled water and perfect vegetables and big houses. There are many things that would thrill people in some developing countries that we would reject, all of us. I like my carrots peeled and my coffee with cream and sugar (and my daughter makes it for me this way), and I don't think there's anything wrong with preferring this.

If a mom is happy to de-stringify an orange for her kid, or cut a sandwich into triangles, or give him salt to dip his radishes in... great. Why shouldn't we have foods prepared for us the way that we like them? That just seems like a loving thing to do...

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa 

 It was never "breakfast at 7, lunch at 11, snack at 2, etc". Before we pulled the kids out to unschool we'd offer some breakfast in the morning if they wanted it. When the children were young I always made them meals, and when they got older the one standard meal of the day was dinner... usually around 6 or 7 pm. Essentially though? We ate when we were hungry to the extent that option was possible. :)

 Our meal/snack routine is pretty loose as well - breakfast is before school, then snack is some time after we get home, and dinner is usually between 5:30 and 6:30, so it's not like a rigid, dinnerbell type of thing, but if someone is hungry an hour before dinner what Ill do is ask them to wait just a few minutes and when I start dinner I'll cut up their veggies for them and have them munch on those while they wait, but I don't want them having a sandwich or a meal-quality food separate form the dinner we're all having together in an hour.  On weekends, breakfast is when everyone is awake and hungry, snack is a couple hours after that when someone mentions it or I think of it, lunch is somewhere around noon, another snack around 2-3pm, and then dinner between 5:30 and 6:30.   At least that feels loose to me, I don't watch the clock to be sure things are timed perfectly or anything, just a general, 'every 2-3 hours, we eat something and it's either a snack or a meal'.  I just don't have people eating meals in between the major ones we eat together, I'll give them something really light to tide them over in teh afternoon or morning if they need it.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by velochic 

 Letting our kids turn up their noses at an orange that has too much "string" on it (as the ongoing example) is, IMO, really...  I don't know a kind way of saying it.  Horrible, I suppose.  I think that we need to teach our children to appreciate what they have instead of going so far that it has to be so exact and perfect.  Some adults still need to learn this.  It's like people who won't eat an apple unless it is pristine or a banana unless it's without any brown spots.  We are absolutely the most privileged country on the planet and I think it's important that kids learn to appreciate that.  It's not about "starving kids" anywhere else.  It's about respecting our abundance in the West.

Um, I don't know how preparing a food so a kid won't gag turned into an all food must be perfect and unblemished entitlement issue.  My skin free orange eater eats the broken crackers and the bananas with brown spots because we do our best not to waste food and he knows full well the cost of it with money being tight and all.  He already sounds like a more well adjusted eater than you describe yourself when you left home so don't go projecting how you were at 18 or 20 on him at 9.  I outright tell him food doesn't need to be "good" to eat, just ok is fine.  We eat things that are healthful sometimes because they are healthful, not only if we love them.   I'm not sure how taking the inner skins off orange segments is that different than say, chopping vegetables for a stir fry.  Those veggies don't need to be in attractive bite sized pieces to be cooked and plopped on a plate, either.