WHY do people feel it is necessary to fight with children about food?

[peaceful_mama]

Seriously.  It's pointless. 

An example or two in a book I'm reading revolved around food.

Today at the dinner table, my mom and dh started the nag-fest on the kids, who were goofing around.  (Stop that, eat something besides cucumber slices, etc)

It's just so NOT an issue for me.  I looked at my two oldest and said "If you continue to mess around here, I will take your plate and you can be excused."

A minute later, 6/yo was hanging a cucumber slice off his ear.  While someone else started in a nag, I shot them a *look*....picked up my child's plate and said "You may be excused.  I will save your plate here at the stove for when you are hungry.  There will not be a different meal tonight." 

as is typical, there were choices, dh had made chicken, and sides of a pinto bean dish, green beans, corn, and the mentioned cucumber slices and lettuce salad.

It's just not an issue for me if my child chooses to only eat cucumber slices and dressing, or little to nothing at all at that time.  Their plate can be saved, it takes a couple minutes to reheat a plate or they can just eat it that way.

(but I do have a rule that the TV is not an option during mealtime.  ;)  that means you don't get up and go to it.)

My response got us out of the unpleasant (to me, and to the others by their complaint level though they don't come right out and say that's what they think)  experience of trying to eat dinner with kids who are not hungry and goofing off and having to make them clean up whatever mess they made while playing with dinner. 

Either they will learn not to goof off because they *want* to be at the table, or they'll not enjoy cold/reheated food.....or those two things will not matter in the least to them, but they will be eating according to what they need, not because someone is telling them it's time.  Win-win.

WHY is it even an issue to try to make a kid eat?

[trekkingirl]

I really don't understand that either. I could have written your post word for word. I know with my little ones, ages 7 and almost 4, they eat more when they are growing. If my kids aren't going through a growth spurt they pick at their food, but when they are growing they clear their plates and ask for more later.

I am one of those eaters that needs peace at the table. I will excuse my kids too if their presence is unproductive. As with you, they can't leave to go watch TV. A book or play time in their rooms usually works.

My younger brother used to eat really slowly when he was a kid and I remember him sitting at the table for over an hour because we weren't allowed to leave the table until we finished our plates.

I work at a grocery store and I see so many kids ask their parent if they can try this or that. More often than not the parent says, no you wouldn't like that. Then they complain about their kids being picky eaters. I don't know what to think of that???

[mamalisa]

No clue, eat, don't eat, whatever.  As long as you understand you're not eating M&Ms instead of real food it's all good in our house it's all good.  

[dalia]

I think people just basically do what they were taught as children and many of us were scolded, forced or manipulated into eating when we didn't want to. My parents were pretty bad about forcing me to eat with threats and such, but they grew up in a very different time and in a third world country where food was scarce. I really try not to but sometimes I catch myself trying to get my toddler to eat more than I know he wants. I'm only human and just trying my best to change the cycle. I think everyone is just doing what they know..

[Eresh]

Hmmm .. DS1 has always hung out around 99th percentile for height and 15-20th percentile for weight.  I'm not too worried since that's also his father's build, but today, for example, he ate 2oz of yogurt for lunch.  He did have a fairly big breakfast -- about 1/3 C of hot cereal and a little bit of milk.  Another big thing recently is only eating carbs and protein and getting constipated.  I don't hassle him about food though I do ask him to eat his fruit to help with his poopies.  I certainly understand WHY parents get wrapped up in trying to get a kid to eat something.  I think the fighting comes from not knowing when/how to disengage.

My parents were definitely of the school of forcing us to eat.  I didn't discover I actually liked broccoli until I was out of the house in college since my mother only prepared it by nuking the block o frozen broccoli in the microwave until it became this odd combination of slimy and tough (before the microwave she cooked it to death on the stove with similar results).  I eventually found out I could choke it down by covering it in ketchup and swallowing pieces without chewing them.  And then they made fun of how much ketchup I put on the broccoli.  :P  Ahh the memories.  Anyhow ... I do see part of my upbringing in how wastage is a big trigger for me.  I basically cook for myself and DS1 since DH is never home and doesn't eat what I cook when he is home.  So when DS1 turns his nose up to something that won't keep and will basically end up in the trash because he won't eat it, it really gets to me.  It also doesn't help that I'm trying to loose weight so the wastage thing ends up with me eating a lot of extra calories I really don't need.

[lookatreestar]

i really cringe when i hear the "eat this, then you can have that" (usually a sweet). for some reason it just isn't my style.

[tankgirl73]

In *general* I'm in complete agreement.  We don't fight with our 4yo dd (much) about food issues.  We did BLW, she eats well, sometimes -- like around holidays -- we have a lot of junk food in the house and she gorges on that, but she's learned that by example ;) and she's actually a more responsible 'healthy eater" than I am heh...

But my 12yo DS has various issues related to ADHD and Asperger's, and the meds he's on reduce his appetite.  He's already skin and bones, he's a competitive gymnast so he's all lean muscle, not a drip of fat on him anywhere.  With his meds, we have to monitor his weight that he doesn't lose weight.

Add on to that, he's and incredibly fussy eater.  Then he'll get it into his head that he wants (for example) macaroni today, and NOTHING will make him budge (that's the Asperger's), even the fact that we don't have any, and we do have many other of his favorite foods in the house.

He'll go hours and hours without eating -- choosing to play or do video games or whatever -- doesn't come to supper claiming that he's 'not hungry' -- then suddenly at bedtime "I'm STAAAAAAAAAARVING!!!!"

So in his case, it's NOT enough to just make sure he has some choices then trust him to eat what he needs.  He doesn't.  And when he hasn't eaten, his behavior really, really deteriorates.  Making a vicious circle.  He's hungry, so he's not thinking straight, so he fights about food... he'll only accept the one specific food he's decided he NEEEEEEEEEDS and refuses anything else offered.  

I often end up doing the thing of "you can eat whatever you want after you finish the plate prepared for you", and he'll come back a few hours later and indeed finish the plate with no problems, then (if available) he'll have the one thing he wanted... (but often it's a thing that just wasn't available in the first place).  But the intervening hours are HELL.  I can't just let him have the thing he wants, because as I said it often is something just plain not doable.  Either we don't have it or it would require huge preparation on my part, which I don't have time for...  And he'll throw a tantrum about that, tantruming because he's hungry.

The easy solution is just to make sure that he snacks frequently enough to not get hungry in the first place, but he often refuses, insisting he's not hungry.

So food IS often a battle in our house, and I'm still hoping to find a 'gentle' solution... but it's not just about psychology, it is a physical issue with him.  His meds make him feel not hungry, even though he needs food, and intellectually he knows this but isn't emotionally strong enough yet to deal with that and just eat anyway, and I can't force him to eat.  

[loraxc]

Well, nutrition is important to me. So yeah, the kids are required to eat fruit and vegetables and good protein every day. They tend to prefer carbs, though. So at our house, you'll hear "Can I have another slice of bread?" followed by "Yes, after you eat some vegetables." Or "Can I have some more fruit?" might get "You haven't had any protein--how about some tofu?" If they say they aren't hungry, that's okay--I never force anyone to eat. But they aren't allowed to just eat what they request/want most or it would pretty much be bread, cheese, and fruit (and sweets, if available) and not much else. I wouldn't say we are high-conflict on the issue--it's really low on our list of problems, honestly--but we do manage what they eat.

This Christmas we went out to eat as a family with other family. and my 2yo was feeling grouchy and distracted and ate literally one bite of dinner. The other kids ate well, however, and when the end of dinner rolled around talk of dessert came up. Well, so, he wanted ice cream like everyone else. We don't do dessert related to meals at home--treats happen rather rarely and at random, usually apart from meals--but in this case, I did insist that he eat some of the dinner he didn't touch before getting ice cream. He didn't really protest much, but I got disapproving comments from relatives--"Oh, just let him have the ice cream...who cares." Well, I care.

30% of American children are obese or overweight, and the vast majority eat far fewer servings of healthy foods than is recommended. I care about their health, now and in the future. That's why I "fight" with them, though I wouldn't call it fighting 98% of the time.

[Sharlla]

some parents like to control their children and show their dominance

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by peaceful_mama 

A minute later, 6/yo was hanging a cucumber slice off his ear.  While someone else started in a nag, I shot them a *look*....picked up my child's plate and said "You may be excused.  I will save your plate here at the stove for when you are hungry.  There will not be a different meal tonight." 

If I did that my kid would just get up after 4 minutes every dinner time.  Not acceptable for us!  Now I do make him leave the table if he can't behave.  But I don't save the plate and really it's not a reasonable solution for us every day (to just let him leave when he's done sitting).

[mamakah]

This is us. If I let DS eat just what he wanted off his plate then he would only eat bread, pasta, rice, etc for every meal. Now, I don't serve him bread on his plate at first. When he asks for bread, I say "If you eat 3 bites of your vegetables and two bites of meat I'll grab you a slice of bread."  It's what works for us. He still has a choice, he can choose not to eat his veggies and meat, but he won't eat bread either. DS isn't hungry in the evenings. He eats all day, is starving in the morning, but at dinner time he's just not hungry.  I keep this in mind when he doesn't want to eat what is on his plate and won't force it.  But, if he's being picky and just wants the carbs, that's a whole different story.

[dalia]

Originally Posted by Sharlla 

some parents like to control their children and show their dominance

I don't really think we can make a blanket statement like this unless we are in the parent's shoes. Every child is different and every parent is different and MOST parents just love their children and want what's best for them.

[MamieCole]

Originally Posted by loraxc 

Well, nutrition is important to me. So yeah, the kids are required to eat fruit and vegetables and good protein every day. They tend to prefer carbs, though. So at our house, you'll hear "Can I have another slice of bread?" followed by "Yes, after you eat some vegetables." Or "Can I have some more fruit?" might get "You haven't had any protein--how about some tofu?" If they say they aren't hungry, that's okay--I never force anyone to eat. But they aren't allowed to just eat what they request/want most or it would pretty much be bread, cheese, and fruit (and sweets, if available) and not much else. I wouldn't say we are high-conflict on the issue--it's really low on our list of problems, honestly--but we do manage what they eat.

This Christmas we went out to eat as a family with other family. and my 2yo was feeling grouchy and distracted and ate literally one bite of dinner. The other kids ate well, however, and when the end of dinner rolled around talk of dessert came up. Well, so, he wanted ice cream like everyone else. We don't do dessert related to meals at home--treats happen rather rarely and at random, usually apart from meals--but in this case, I did insist that he eat some of the dinner he didn't touch before getting ice cream. He didn't really protest much, but I got disapproving comments from relatives--"Oh, just let him have the ice cream...who cares." Well, I care.

30% of American children are obese or overweight, and the vast majority eat far fewer servings of healthy foods than is recommended. I care about their health, now and in the future. That's why I "fight" with them, though I wouldn't call it fighting 98% of the time.

This is pretty much what happens in our house w/DS1. 

[tonttu]

For us , the best way to go about it , is , you are not allowed to goof around , if you don´t want to eat , you can get up , but there is no food until next mealtime .

You have to try one bite , if you still don´t like it , leave it , but I´m not a short order cook , I make balanced meals for everybody and I put THAT food on their plates . My hope is , hat one day (since appetites change) they will eat something , they didn´t eat before .

If you put food on the plate yourself , you have to finish it , which stopped my now 10-year-old to pile on mountains he couldn´t eat , but if I put it on , you don´t have to .

Of course , there are times , when it´s difficult , but overall , for us , it works

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by tonttu 

For us , the best way to go about it , is , you are not allowed to goof around , if you don´t want to eat , you can get up , but there is no food until next mealtime .

You have to try one bite , if you still don´t like it , leave it , but I´m not a short order cook , I make balanced meals for everybody and I put THAT food on their plates . My hope is , hat one day (since appetites change) they will eat something , they didn´t eat before .

If you put food on the plate yourself , you have to finish it , which stopped my now 10-year-old to pile on mountains he couldn´t eat , but if I put it on , you don´t have to .

Of course , there are times , when it´s difficult , but overall , for us , it works

HOW do you do that??  I have tried and tried with my son.  even getting really ugly about it.  Long protracted times at the table, putting him in his room etc (all one-offs and not anything I'm proud of).  But he will.not.try a new food and gets himself so worked up that if he were to try it he'd gag immediately. He's 4.5 and it makes me want to take a hostage, I swear.  

[dalia]

Originally Posted by D_McG 

Originally Posted by tonttu 

For us , the best way to go about it , is , you are not allowed to goof around , if you don´t want to eat , you can get up , but there is no food until next mealtime .

You have to try one bite , if you still don´t like it , leave it , but I´m not a short order cook , I make balanced meals for everybody and I put THAT food on their plates . My hope is , hat one day (since appetites change) they will eat something , they didn´t eat before .

If you put food on the plate yourself , you have to finish it , which stopped my now 10-year-old to pile on mountains he couldn´t eat , but if I put it on , you don´t have to .

Of course , there are times , when it´s difficult , but overall , for us , it works

HOW do you do that??  I have tried and tried with my son.  even getting really ugly about it.  Long protracted times at the table, putting him in his room etc (all one-offs and not anything I'm proud of).  But he will.not.try a new food and gets himself so worked up that if he were to try it he'd gag immediately. He's 4.5 and it makes me want to take a hostage, I swear.  

Lol. Don't take any hostages! If I were u I would just give up making an issue about it and offer new foods but don't worry about whether he tries it or not. Just keep offering and then maybe some day a miracle will happen.

[academama]

We've instituted a "tasting plate"--a small bite of each dish. Each child has to taste everything and then gets to decide what he/she wants more of.

I don't like the idea of forcing a child to eat anything. And they always have the option of not tasting things if they're not hungry. But I was just at the end of my rope with "I want this!" followed by "Noooo....I don't WANT it!" (They're 4 and 2.)  This makes me feel better, because they're tasting the food (I work hard to make a healthy meal plan and prepare tasty, nutritious food; they don't have to like it but it frankly makes me furious if they won't try it after asking for it). And it reduces conflict because there is a standard of behavior that's easy to understand, and because they feel in control because they decide what they want more of.

I try not to phrase it as "you have to eat x to get more y" (although of course that was inevitable the first day or two). Instead, I say, "You need to know what we're eating in order to decide what you want and how much, so you need to try it." They're small bites; I don't care if they eat the whole bite or just a teeny nibble. I just want them exposed to it. 

Without this, my son in particular would eat only carbohydrates. Seriously, the boy is breadaholic.

I might add that I do not expect them to eat things that I know they dislike, but they are both adventurous eaters by nature and have eaten/will eat almost anything.

[academama]

p.s. In response to your first question--why people fight with their kids over food--there are a lot of reasons. Some of them are good reasons and others are not. This dynamic differs a lot from family to family, I think.

In my case, the main thing that has caused conflict is waste: both of my kids have had a tendency to say "I want X" and then not eat it. If it goes to waste, that's something we can't afford. I've started asking them to serve themselves (or to tell me exactly how much they want) and that has helped too.

[tonttu]

Yes , exactly , my youngest son is quite a personality and especially at that age , there were moments , when only a mother´s love would save him

But seriously , just be persistent , even at his age he can understand some rules . If he knows , that this is how it gets done at the dinner table , no matter what he tries , eventually he will comply . Maybe not always , but the way I look at it , is , one good time is one time not bad .

Nobody starves voluntarily and even though it hurts me to put that uneaten cauliflower/fish/tangerine/whatever in the trash , one day he will pick up his fork and try it . And if he never eats a particular food , so what !

I hate eggplant , makes me sick , but that´s how people are . You expose him to good , nutritional food and that´s what he learns . My others didn´t always eat everything either , but there simply was no choice and I never played the "if you finish this , you get candy" . No !

This is , what we are having , if you don´t eat , you are not hungry and there is always the next meal .

Always remember , even if it takes some (or a lot of) effort now , in the end , you will win , if you stick to it and it will make your life easier , when he´s older . Because I believe , laying down the law with a 4-year-old over a food issue  is A LOT easier than doing it with a 15-year-old  

[HollyBearsMom]

Food is one of my many "not worth the power struggle" issues. I don't see any benefit in fighting about food.

Food is food in our house.  No food is "better" or "worse" than another.  I am blessed to be able to keep my home stocked with healthy, nutritious food that is available for all of us to eat. Nothing is "off limits". I cook a wide variety of meats, veggies, grains, etc but make sure to include a few faves in the rotation each night.  No one goes hungry even if it means them grabbing something out of the fridge.

We don't bribe, beg, cajole, require one bite, threaten, nag etc.    Food is usually family style but sometime plated in the kitchen.  Anyone can eat (or not) as they desire.

Meal time is family time in our home.  Food is secondary. The main point is to spend time together,  No TV, maybe the radio or some CD's playing softly. I like a nice table and have lots of fun place mats and napkins. I like to light (unscented) candles. When my son was out of high chair dinner lasted maybe 5 minutes, LOL but the focus was a pleasant time.  He might have gotten down after 5 minutes but we would continue eating and enjoying the meal.  Sometime he would come back and join us, sometimes not. He is now 9 and we are usually a the table for about 30 minutes.

Probably the only real "rules" we have is you must be polite ( I don't care for that, Mom. not eeewwwww!),  the use of proper manners (napkins on the lap, proper use of silverware, etc, four on the floor, no elbows). Other than its pretty relaxed.

So no I have no idea why so many make such a big issue out of food/eating!