Problem with neighbor's child....

[Petie1104]

I like our neighbors, they are nice people.  We get along with them, but we've only known them a few weeks.  They have a 7 yr. old, I'll call him A.  So A and dd started out as friends.  They LOVED to play together, and they included ds (4 yr. old).  So, for a while it wasn't an issue.  Well in the last few weeks a couple things have happened, and I should have seen them coming after A and ds (9 yr. old) got into a fight.  But it wasn't serious, so I didn't think anything about it. 

Ok, so first off, he was starting to order the kids around.  DD just blew him off, but ds (the little one, we'll call him S) listens to him.  So, day before yesterday, A came over to the house and kind of invited himself in, but he was playing so I didn't think much of it.  So they are in the back rooms and all of a sudden ds (the older, J) came out and told me that A was saying that they had to let him into the teenagers room (who is with his bio-mom right now) because A said that he is a guest and gets to do whatever he wants in our home.  I told A in a firm but kind voice that our home has rules and EVERYONE that enters our home has to abide by those rules.  He said OK. Then about 2 minutes later I hear S crying because he told A that A was using teens ball and he wasn't allowed and A just ignored him.  I asked A about this and he said that S had yelled it at him and he doesn't listen to yelling, so he didn't listen to S.  I told him it was teens ball, and then found out S was crying mainly because A had kicked the ball over the fence into the back neighbors yard.  So J and A come back with the ball and it seemed everything was OK because dh was home and we had to go shopping.  But, A said that he wanted S and dd to play at his house while we were gone.  I declined saying that they needed to be with us.

So, today, the kids had gotten new bikes the day A came over.  Today, all three of the kids had their bikes out.  DD had gone to her friend's house, ds was riding around the neighborhood.  S was riding his bike down the road to the trailer and back. That is his limit, a trailer that is parked down the road right before it turns to go around the block.  A comes over and asks to ride with S.  No problem.  I explained S's limits and A said he understood, then turned around and led S around the block.  S comes home and I told him to get off his bike that he was restricted from riding with A because he went around the block.  S was upset, but understood when I explained that even though A encouraged him to break the rule, he had CHOSEN to break it and he had to take responsibility.  I then told him that I was happy he was a big boy that was old enough to understand that he needed to accept the consequence because he said he DID understand.  He then told A that he didn't want to play with A anymore.  By now dd and J had come home and A stood there, with me standing right there and said, "you will play with me WHENEVER I WANT IT"    I said, loud enough for my kids and A to hear, "Noone is forced to play with anyone.  Noone has to play with ANYONE they choose not to".  At which point A went right up to S and said, "Your my friend so you should give me a hug before you leave".  J jumped over to the car and said to S, "a GOOD friend doesn't make you do bad things.  You don't hug people who are bad friends".  Now as much as I know I SHOULD have told J to back off, I remained quiet as J explained this to S who then just put his head down and strapped into his seat. 

Oh and I almost forgot, yesterday, dd kept telling A not to follow her.  I asked what was happening and she said, "A says I need to be protected so he needs to stay close to me.  I told him that I can take care of myself and don't need a BOY to protect me".  OK so at this point A comes up and says, "GIRLS need protecting, I'm helping you."  DD told him "MOMMY doesn't need protecting she can protect all of us"  (how sweet, right).  He then said, "yeah well if I wanted to I could beat your mom up, so you need me to protect you".  She then looked at him like he was insane and said, "well if you want to try, I want to see mommy beat you up".  OK so after trying to hold back my laughter, I realized that this kid has a major attitude and was quite (Ok I can't spell it) chauvanistic.

So, I don't know whether to talk to his parents about this.  I mean I know them, but not well and will they get upset if I go up and say...

"Hey, I like A being friends with my kids but he has some behaviors that I can't allow around my children.  If he can follow some rules then he will be allowed to play, but if not, then I have to ask that you keep him away from my kids."

If you were A's parent, would you be able to take that without taking offense, or would it make living next to me unbearable.  I really feel that some boundaries need to be set for me to allow my children to continue playing with A and now I'm debating which would be worse.  I could just tell A that he is no longer welcome to play with my children, or I could talk to his parents.  The kids are willing to give him another chance if he can abide by some simple boundaries...

1. He is not to encourage S to break rules.  S is only 4 and wants to please his older friend, so this has to be a rule.  If he is playing with the other kids and wants to go beyond S's range, he can, but he cannot actively encourage S to break the rules

2.  He has to stop treating dd like she is his property.  He cannot tell her what to do or what she needs, he needs to respect her as an equal.

3.  He has to obey the rules of our home, which means he has to respect other people's property, no hitting, no yelling, and no leaving doors open.  Respect others, and clean up after himself.  These are our only house rules, seriously, well that and flush after you go.

So, is there a way to do this without causing his parents to hate us or think we are being ridiculous?

[GuildJenn]

Is there a reason you feel you can't just enforce the boundaries with A directly? It does sound like he is in a very testing phase with your family. I don't know if I would personally take it as him being permanently chauvinistic or testing/controlling, because he's 7 and that's a big part of that age. But I certainly wouldn't put up with it. After the ball incident I'd've sent him home.

I have to say your kids sound like they are handling things really well...you should be proud. So much so that I think this will resolve on its own; either A will learn the 'rules of the road' from them and you, or they'll give him the boot themselves.

With your youngest it is more complicated, but again it sounds like with each incident A was corrected. Still, that's where I personally would intervene more and possibly just not let them play together.

I think it would be a good idea to invite the parents over for coffee just to get to know them better.  I think you could get a feel pretty quickly for whether they would be open to a discussion about things in general, in a mild way (at least at the start) like "lately I see some changes in A, and we've had a few little conflicts...what do you think?"

I don't think I would march over there with my rules, because you're going to be the one who has to enforce them anyway, and it kind of puts the parents in a position where their first reaction might be defensive.  The only time I'd do that would be if I were just about done with trying to enforce things...and maybe you're at that point?

[mtiger]

I would either enforce the rules in my own home, or tell A he's not allowed over anymore.

[K1329]

I agree with the pps. I would not approach the neighbor with a list of rules. I would, however, try to get to know them a little and see if they are approachable should there be an incident that neeeds to be addressed, or not. I also think that most of these issues will resolve themselves. If the neighbor kid doesn't respect your dds requests, she likely will not like to play with him - end of problem. If he doesn't follow your house rules, politely ask him to leave until he's ready to follow the rules. I would be most bothered by his lack of respect regarding the lo, but, also like your approach - teach your ds that it's his responsibility to follow the rules and say no i"m not allowed to do that. My kids play with neighborhood friends. The ones they don't like, they avoid playing with. If he turns out to not be a fun playmate, your children will likely stop playing with him on their own.

[chaimom]

If you don't know the parents well, I would just address the situation with the neighbor kid directly.  He can follow your rules at your house or go home immediately.  He can play nicely (explain what that means) or go home.  Period.  Also, coach your children on what the "right" thing is to do when that child is around.  I agree with pp, that your children seem to be handling the situation pretty well. 

[coyotemist]

I've dealt with difficult neighbor children before, and I just send them home if they don't follow the rules.  Sometimes they get a warning "In this house we xyz, if you can't follow that rule you'll be going home.  Why don't you guys go play with the chalk out on the patio?" 

Most of the time they listen, I think I've only had to send kiddo's home once or twice.

[mamazee]

Yeah, I agree with PPs.  I'd enforce the rules myself, and every time he broke one, I'd send him home and say we could try again another time.  He'll catch on soon enough, or just stop letting him come over at all.  I wouldn't get into it with his parents.  Although that can sound good in theory, it doesn't go over well in practice.

[gbailey]

I wouldn't have A over. He sounds like a pain in the behind but your children seem great and handled themselves well.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by chaimom 

If you don't know the parents well, I would just address the situation with the neighbor kid directly.  He can follow your rules at your house or go home immediately.  He can play nicely (explain what that means) or go home.  Period.  Also, coach your children on what the "right" thing is to do when that child is around.  I agree with pp, that your children seem to be handling the situation pretty well. 

I agree with this.  The first several playdates seem to involve testing and creating boundaries but after that it is really nice to have kids over ime.  Now that my dd has established friends I can spend several hours reading and doing my own thing while dd and her friends play.  When they have a fight they usually just work it out. 

Does he have younger siblings?  If not then it may not be a good idea for him to play with just the four year old.  My dd is an only child and she doesn't understand little kids at all, they irritate her quickly and when she does play with them she tends to view them as babies who have to be told everything (which is actually a nice switch from before when she viewed them as irritating children of her own age and freaked out at them instead of bossing them around).  It is just something that she doesn't grasp right now and it takes a lot of work on my end to keep things happy when we do meet up with people who have young kids.  It may help your sanity and your younger child's happiness if you encourage the friendship primarily with your older child and only let him play when the older child only or both children are home.

[earthmama369]

It sounds like he's not a good fit for a playdate unless he's directly supervised by an adult. I'd limit playdates (assuming my kids wanted to play with him) to times when I'm willing to be right there on top of them for a while, and send him home the rest of the time.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by gbailey 

I wouldn't have A over. He sounds like a pain in the behind but your children seem great and handled themselves well.

I agree. This kid doesn't seem worth the trouble. Keep your kids busy for a time maybe they will focus their attention on something or someone else. The neighbor may call you to find out why you no longer have x over. Just say that you have house rules and her child won't follow yours. End of story.

[Petie1104]

Thank you all for the advice.  I think I will tell A next time that if he breaks the rules, that's it, I'm done.  I know he's not a horrible kid, but he's an only child and seems to run his parents ragged.  I have been raising my 4 and honestly, as selfish as it sounds, I'm not in the mood to handle the stress of a child that is basically out of control.  The two older children don't want to play with him anymore, but they feel sorry for him.  So half of what they say is negative, and the other half is really empathetic.  Today, we had a waiter that had the same name as A and all dd did was laugh and said, "ewww, I'm sorry, I wish you had a better name".  At which point I had to explain to the waiter that she had a kid in the neighborhood with that name that she doesn't get along with.  He laughed and said, "aww, I'm sorry, he's ruining it for the rest of us".  So at least he was a good sport about it.  But that does tell me that the children are about done with this friendship.