Getting inappropriately roped into parents' intimate life??

[doulawoman]

I could really use feedback and other people's perspectives on this one.

My father sent me a link on facebook of Elvis surrounded by "belly dancers" (clip from the movie little egypt or something). He is a HUGE Elvis fan. There was a note with it...maybe I'll just copy paste....

"I sent you this video because I like the mid east dancing. I am trying to inspire your mother to take belly dancing or the likes to maintain her health. Elvis and the girls work for me I sure hope they motivate your mom. Maybe you can encourage her with your input of wisdom!!.  "

anyway, I feel kinda creepy about it. Some history that might help: my dad is very athletic, runs, does yoga, weight lifts etc, my mom is NOT though she has been through periods of taking fairly good care of herself. My dad has sent me like 1 other facebook message in the last three years, and so this is a big deal for him to bother doing this and figure out how to link something! I've always been "mature" for my age and there were periods of time when I was a teenager when my dad would confide in me about my mother a lot. And he'd say things like "I can;t talk to your mother this way" (about spirituality, emotions, etc.) and at one point "You just say the word and I'll divorce her." Despite that they do love each other very much. My dh says my mum looks pretty decent for her age, though she does dress a bit frumpy. My father already printed off some kind of (rude in my opinion) little spiel about getting a bra fitting and "the sisters" going south...but at least he tried and she does need a bra fitting IMO.

Anyway, I have a long history of triangles and overinvolvement in my family's problems. They see me as the "perfect", "wise" older sister...and often they try to pull me in as a thrid parent...especially now where I'm an adult and two of my sisters are still at home. I have worked hard not to be pulled in, but usually it's my mom who does that, not my dad. Anyway, my initial thoughts were a bit of sympathy for my dad, I think he genuinely wants the spark back and he is concerned about my mom's health...she has ibs and other issues, AND reading between the lines and watching the video it seems like he wants my mom to specifically do belly dancing and I don't know that she's interested, and he wants some sex appeal....I have told them a million times I think they should go to counselling when this sort of thing comes up...it SEEMS benign enough but if i engage at all it could become a long, drawn out thing. I odn't really want to be thinking about my parents' sex life yk? and I feel my dad should support my mom, as he tends to pick at her for not ebing active, rather than encourage her for whatever she is already doing.

HELP. I have a gross feeling about this.

updated... dad responded grrr

Edited by doulawoman - 1/4/11 at 9:51am

[LROM]

So have you ever sat your parents down and told them that while you appreciate that they value your opinion and wisdom, you don't want them consulting you about issues between them or with your siblings?  If you did it, how did they react?  If you didn't, are you willing to?  That seems like the most important starting point: communication with love but with firm boundaries.

[doulawoman]

I have, over and over. mostly by phone/email and mostly with my mom but yes, i have. very clearly. they say sorry and lay low for a while then do it again. It seems they really don't know any better "boundaries" is a foreign concept. sometimes if i'm not firm enough I'll get ranting about my sister/grandmother/mother but usually I will snuff it out. I am not sure what to say without "feeding the fire" or shutting off communication...for myself, whenever this happens I feel so confused and tangled up. hate that feeling. I need sample dialogue.

ETA: by phone and email because we live 3000 miles apart

[coyotemist]

Maybe it's a cry for help to try to get her motivated to once again take good care of herself?  I totally understand not wanting to hear about their sex life, don't blame you there.  Not saying that asking you is right, but maybe he thinks she will listen if you talk to her about exercise and eating right, etc.

[doulawoman]

you're right, yes. And if I had a different relationship with them it'd be no biggie...however, i'm constantly being asked to talk to ppl..my sister etc about issues that are none of my business. Then, if I do, they hold me responsible. Yet, you're right there's an aspect of truly wanting help. How can I address both the need for help and maintain my boundaries?

I came across this website:http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-an-Extremely-Codependent-Family 

and these excerpts really resonated:

"Understand signs of codependency. There are many signs and most of them are related to boundaries. Like boundaries with personal "physical" space (ie. standing too close to someone in an elevator) people in codependent relationships interfere with others by invading emotional space. When you realize you feel uncomfortable when asked for help, a person close to you is always needing help and you are the main provider for comfort or any other support, or feeling pulled in many directions by the people closest to you. ""

Codependent parents, for example, may rely on their grown children in unhealthy ways, reversing the parent-child dynamic. Pulling away from this dynamic is a positive move toward establishing healthy personal boundaries 

and:The best way to move out of a codependent relationship is to stop focusing on the other, and to focus on yourself and your health. When you put your need to grow, mature, and become a healthier person first, that will create a shift in your codependent relationship. Be aware that doing this work will destabilize the relationship and make things harder before it makes them better 

You understand the unspoken rules of how you interact ...

[peainthepod]

It sounds like your family's dynamic relies on a lot of triangulation. There's little or no direct discussion about things; instead, one of your parents uses you to convey uncomfortable or embarrassing information to the other one. Or expects you to step in and "mediate" their relationships with each other. It's totally inappropriate and puts you in an unfair, awkward position. You have every right to refuse to do it anymore.

"I appreciate that you're concerned about this issue, but you need to talk to [other person] about this directly. It's none of my business."

Rinse, repeat. People will still try to rope you in with things like, "Don't you care about [issue]?" and "But I'm making it your business!". Ignore these attempts at guilting you and repeat, "I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm not comfortable discussing this and it's really none of my business at all. Take it up with [other person]." Then change the subject. Do this every time and eventually people will realize they can't use you as their messenger and own personal family mediator. Get comfortable with ending conversations and changing the subject.

Also, your parents confiding in you about their own adult issues (sex, body image, etc.) is called parentifying and is very common in dysfunctional families. They have no right to ask you to discuss such private things with them and you need to get comfortable telling them so. They probably won't stop without a fight, but your happiness and mental health are worth fighting for.

Good luck, mama! When I was a young teenager, my mother used to tell me all the details of her and my father's sex life (and lack thereof), and my father frequently made inappropriate sexual comments about women around my siblings and me. Mere words can't describe how creepy and awful it was, and how bad it made me feel about myself, and about sex in general. Gross.

[doulawoman]

peainthepod -I really was comforted and affirmed by your response. I have to learn to recognize that icky feeling as a red flag that my boundaries are being breached and I need to say no. I get into an internal struggle thinking I need to say yes, to "rescue' my dad or simply retain the relationship. It is so painful to realize, much as you love someone that their total lack of boundaries and awareness that they exist makes it really difficult to have a real relationship with them.

[brokenheart]

Originally Posted by peainthepod 

When I was a young teenager, my mother used to tell me all the details of her and my father's sex life (and lack thereof), and my father frequently made inappropriate sexual comments about women around my siblings and me. Mere words can't describe how creepy and awful it was, and how bad it made me feel about myself, and about sex in general. Gross.

Yuck!  I wonder if that's why I have some issues with sex myself.  My mother and father pretty much hated each other while I was growing up, and beyond the non-stop fighting, my mother would tell me that she was avoiding having sex with my father until she couldn't help herself anymore.  Um, gross!  TMI.     So dysfunctional.  She isn't evil or stupid....I don't know why on earth she thought this might be an appropriate topic to share with your CHILD.  Just bizarre.  And yeah, my dad drooled openly over other women.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doulawoman 

peainthepod -I really was comforted and affirmed by your response. I have to learn to recognize that icky feeling as a red flag that my boundaries are being breached and I need to say no. I get into an internal struggle thinking I need to say yes, to "rescue' my dad or simply retain the relationship. It is so painful to realize, much as you love someone that their total lack of boundaries and awareness that they exist makes it really difficult to have a real relationship with them.

I get this feeling.  That you need to "rescue" them.  I feel the exact same way (especially growing up....I feared they would kill each other if I didn't help fix everything).  I'm sorry you are experiencing this feeling....it is less than pleasant.

[doulawoman]

Well, I told my dad no, that I could not get involved and he could talk to her directly and/or see a counsellor. It ried to "hear" his "concern" for her health but was firm. He hasn't responded but I guess he was fearful I'd rat him out because my mom wrote to me and said he told her he wrote me (weird!) she said she didn't want to belly dance and the women  in the video weren't bellydancing anyway. anyway, I think I will just wait and see what happens....I have enough going on in my own life. Or perhaps I'll also tell my mom I don't want to be involved as the way she wrote to me seemed like she was trying to get me involved.

triangulation is right! Good thing i have an appt with a tehrapist booked.

[doulawoman]

update...here is my dad's response. Pretty obvious he didn't get it. grrr

"This was meant to be a light hearted approach to encourage your mother to dance. I thought she, like you, have a beautiful mid eastern look and feminine qualities of these beautiful dancers. All I was suggesting is your input about the deeper cultural and meaning of this dance style.
Also this type of dance really works and tones the core area of the body. I thought it might be a fun, enjoyable way for your mother to get fit.
I have been totally loyal in every respect to your mom in our 28 + yrs and would not want to do anything to jeopardize our wonderful relationship.

Love Dad!!"

advice??

 

 

[peainthepod]

He's gaslighting you now. Trying to tell you that what you read with your own eyes wasn't actually what he meant, even though it was plain as day. It's a common tactic and to be expected, so don't let it sway you. The key to defeating this kind of slippery misdirection and rewriting of history ("All I was doing...") is to ignore it and repeat your earlier boundary-setting statements whenever necessary. Like a broken record, but politely.

"Dear Dad,

I'm glad you have an appreciation for the ancient art of bellydancing. Thank you for respecting my wishes not to discuss my mother's body shape with me now or in the future. It makes me happy that you two have such a wonderful relationship and can talk about such intimate things privately, without involving me.

Love,

[doulawoman]"

Straight, to the point, polite, and leaves no room for him to pretend like he didn't "get" what you were telling him before. No need to try and be subtle; that only gives him an out to pretend he didn't understand what you were saying. And once it's in writing, you can always go back to it if he crosses your boundaries again.

"Oh, Dad, I'm sure you don't mean to be talking to me about this. After all, as you said in the attached email, you're perfectly capable of taking this up with Mom, which is of course more appropriate since it really just involves her and has nothing to do with me."

[doulawoman]

i hope it's ok, but i'm going to use your sample dialogue-thanks. I have a tendebcy to explain and even apologize -not on this one!

[peainthepod]

Perfectly okay--I'm glad you found it helpful. Good luck and keep us posted!