worried about non-vaxing and custody dispute

[turtle2who]

So- ex and I have been fairly amicable and have not gone to court yet although we have been separated since the end of August.  He was in court with his ex wife and he went through the wringer- so to speak.  So he does NOT want to go to court again.  But he is pushing to change our visitation agreement and I do not want to change it.  I was ready to go to court to fight for what I want but I was reading through some info from legal aid about going to court which basically tells all about the steps that we will have to follow.  One was to sign releases for medical and school and extracurricular people to share info with the court. There was even mention of proof of child going to dr and dentist visits and being up to date on vaccinations.  So that's where I falter.

I will agree to the visitation he wants before I will subject my child to being "caught up" on his vaccinations- probably way too fast- just to protect him from a situation that I do not think is best for him- visitation-wise. Has anyone been through this before?  I mean had non-vax status come into play in a custody fight?

BTW- background is that when ds was newborn DH and I talked about vaxing and he was all for it and I questioned many of the seemingly unecessary ones.  We talked a little and I challenged his faith in doctors to protect us and he faltered.  He knew I did not give ds some vaxes, he also knew I waited to decide about a lot of them. He never came to doctor visits, never asked about whether we did do all the vaxes or not. So we kind of just never talked about it specifically and I really don't think he knows what ds has and hasn't been given.  I'm pretty sure he'd be surprised in court and would want him to have them all.  Which is why I'm concerned.

So I'm trying to decide- do I just agree to what he wants and start trying to catch ds up slowly in preparation for a someday court fight? Because I am not going to just keep folding to his will every time he demands something.  Or do I go to court and fight now because this whole investigation doesn't usually happen anyway?  Argh 

[Goodmom2008]

I would not bring up the subject unless your stbx seeks an order to get your child vaccinated.  And then come up with a slow catch up plan to show the courts.  Because a court will side with him on this issue. 

[turtle2who]

Yes I know. Would never bring it up.  We're just disagreeing right now.  He wants to change visitation and I don't. I am willing to compromise and change it but not to the extent he wants. He will not compromise- wants it his way or we go to court. I really don't want to fold because I don't agree and if I fold I believe he will continue to ask for more and more and we will end up in court anyway.  So I am trying to decide how likely it is that it'll even go as far as having someone investigate each of us. 

Lots of views but no btdt's. 

[blessedwithboys]

Sorry, no BTDT.  It's funny bc ds1's father did take me to court for full custody on grounds of "medical neglect" bc I eliminated dairy instead of having his tonsils removed, and also bc I tried treating tinea capitis with natural methods before switching to a rx (which also didn't work, we had to just wait it out and then it went away on its own).  But he never brought up vaxing, so I got off the hook there.

I guess I just wanted to point out that there would be no court order to vax.  All he has to do is take the child to any dr and ask for them.  How bad is the visitation agreement he is seeking?  How old is your child?

[turtle2who]

My son is 5 1/2 and has a good relationship with his dad.  His dad and I agreed to try and be amicable when we split. He asked for liberal visitation. I said of course. He asked for Tuesday and Thursday evenings and overnight Saturday and all day Sunday- because he had to work Saturday. I said of course. I asked that ds be home by 7 pm because bedtime is 7:30- he said ok. 

He had a great deal of trouble getting him home by 7 so we switched to a pick up routine- he picks up for the visit and I pick up to take him home- only he would not agree to pick up before 7 so ds could be home by 7.  (We live about 20 mins away) I negotiated for an entire day- back and forth before basically saying I guess if you can't compromise we need help with this and he said- okay I could pick up at 6:45. I sit waiting in the driveway and actually get him around 6:50/6:55 depending on how long I have to wait and how many things he forgets and has to go back in the house for, etc.  So we are never home by 7. 

Now he has a girlfriend- who just moved in with him- and he suddenly wants to change to an every other weekend visitation. She has her kids every other weekend. I personally have been very happy with the schedule the way it is and so has ds. He always knows he can see his dad tomorrow.  Ex gets to see his son every other day- but still complains that he goes days without seeing him- ??  He wants to pick him up at school on Friday and return him to school on Monday morning.  So I told him I prefer things the way they are but I would agree to switching to every other weekend with pick up Sunday evening as we are now.  Ex cannot get ds to sleep at a reasonable time-ever. He comes home very overtired after ONE night at his dad's house and ex wants to have him there 3 nights.  Then get him up early on Monday morning and rush around to get him to school across 4 towns and through city traffic at rush hour. I think it's unecessary and not a good way for ds to start the week.

He says it's not open to negotiation- this is what he wants and that's it. I suggested we go to mediation and work things out and get it all in writing.  He said he'd go to mediation to discuss this one issue and if she agreed with him he'd continue and if not we'd go to court. 

[sparklefairy]

I totally get you on the sleep thing.

Is he asking for Tuesday night, Thursday night, AND EOW, or just EOW?

Originally Posted by turtle2who 

My son is 5 1/2 and has a good relationship with his dad.  His dad and I agreed to try and be amicable when we split. He asked for liberal visitation. I said of course. He asked for Tuesday and Thursday evenings and overnight Saturday and all day Sunday- because he had to work Saturday. I said of course. I asked that ds be home by 7 pm because bedtime is 7:30- he said ok. 

He had a great deal of trouble getting him home by 7 so we switched to a pick up routine- he picks up for the visit and I pick up to take him home- only he would not agree to pick up before 7 so ds could be home by 7.  (We live about 20 mins away) I negotiated for an entire day- back and forth before basically saying I guess if you can't compromise we need help with this and he said- okay I could pick up at 6:45. I sit waiting in the driveway and actually get him around 6:50/6:55 depending on how long I have to wait and how many things he forgets and has to go back in the house for, etc.  So we are never home by 7. 

Now he has a girlfriend- who just moved in with him- and he suddenly wants to change to an every other weekend visitation. She has her kids every other weekend. I personally have been very happy with the schedule the way it is and so has ds. He always knows he can see his dad tomorrow.  Ex gets to see his son every other day- but still complains that he goes days without seeing him- ??  He wants to pick him up at school on Friday and return him to school on Monday morning.  So I told him I prefer things the way they are but I would agree to switching to every other weekend with pick up Sunday evening as we are now.  Ex cannot get ds to sleep at a reasonable time-ever. He comes home very overtired after ONE night at his dad's house and ex wants to have him there 3 nights.  Then get him up early on Monday morning and rush around to get him to school across 4 towns and through city traffic at rush hour. I think it's unecessary and not a good way for ds to start the week.

He says it's not open to negotiation- this is what he wants and that's it. I suggested we go to mediation and work things out and get it all in writing.  He said he'd go to mediation to discuss this one issue and if she agreed with him he'd continue and if not we'd go to court. 

[singin'intherain]

He's being unreasonable. You had a mutual agreement that has worked well for everyone involved for a long time. So suddenly he has a change in lifestyle, and everything has to be upended to suit him- with no compromises? Don't let him threaten you- call his bluff. Go to mediation and stick to your guns that you will work out a schedule that works for all of you- not just him. The mediator and the courts are supposed to consider the interests of the child, not that they always do, but bedtimes and school are going to be seen as priorities over your ex's convenience. He's just going to look like an ass if he refuses to get your ds home in time for bed. He could push all the way through to the vax issue, but it's unlikely to specifically come up anyway. Usually everything falls under the heading of who makes medical decisions, when. As a pp said, if he wanted to and it was important to him, he could just drive ds down and get the shots right now.

Do you have any of these conversations, with threats, in writing? It would be great if you could get him to start emailing, because no judge is going to look favorably on his attitude.

[turtle2who]

He is asking for Tuesday and Thursday pick up at school till 6:45 AND EOW Fri pick up at school till Monday morning drop off at school.  Of course he claims this arrangement never worked for him- his visits are too rushed and they don't get quality time together.  I explained that he sees his kid more than most dads and this is what he asked for and the rushing is self-imposed because of his inability to plan ahead at all- so he is always "surprised" that time's up!

And unfortunately- as dumb as he is- he has been smart enough to avoid communicating with me via email. I have emailed him my side of things and my willingness to compromise but for the most part he has only texted me or called me with the threats and ultimatums.  I think I have one conversation through email.

He has 2 older kids by his exwife and the arrangement with them was fri after school to monday morning drop off- AND his new gf's ex has that arrangement as well so he is convinced that if we go to court he will get that.  He is trying to establish a history of problems with drop off and pick up so he can tell the court that is why we need to have the arrangement he proposes.  The thing is- we had one disagreement when he was late dropping off and told me he would not be held to a time- would not be a slave to the clock.  And another misunderstanding when we traded days one weekend and I thought I'd be picking ds up at ex's normal pick up time- since I was taking his day and he was taking mine.  But ex thought I'd be picking up at my normal pick up time which is 2 hrs later.  And we both made plans with ds for that time.  Ex went totally ballistic accusing me of trying to keep his son from him, use ds as leverage- yadda yadda. It was crazy.  That's it- in 4 months- 2 disagreements- and I have otherwise given him EVERYTHING he has asked for right from the start- whenever he asks.  Twice I said no when he asked to pick up early on Saturday- which he does almost every weekend.

I was keeping pretty good records of what was going on but I didn't mark the calendar every time he asked to pick up early and things like that.  I wish I had.  But it would pretty much just be my word against his anyway.

I guess I'll call the doc on Monday and ask them for a propsed schedule to catch him up on vaxes. I know they have one since he gave it to me at his 4y well child visit- but I can't find it.  And I'll do some reasearch on the vaxes again and think through the whole thing.  I suspect it would never come up but if it did ex would be surprised and I'm sure act like he never knew any of it and was outraged and it would be a big issue. 

[Minxie]

WRT to the email: send him an email after each text and phone call, stating verbatim what he said and recording the conversation. Eventually, he'll get the hint and start emailing you. At the very least, you will have documentation that he cannot dispute.

[turtle2who]

Originally Posted by Minxie 

WRT to the email: send him an email after each text and phone call, stating verbatim what he said and recording the conversation. Eventually, he'll get the hint and start emailing you. At the very least, you will have documentation that he cannot dispute.

I was just thinking the same thing today after responding to this thread earlier! I am going to do everything by email from now on. And I am going to recap what we discuss on the phone in each new email. Great idea- wish I had thought of it sooner. 

Now I'm just trying to decide how to proceed regarding his refusal to compromise.  I guess I have to say if we don't agree on a change in visitation then things must stay the same until we go to court.

[smeep]

Originally Posted by turtle2who 

And unfortunately- as dumb as he is- he has been smart enough to avoid communicating with me via email. I have emailed him my side of things and my willingness to compromise but for the most part he has only texted me or called me with the threats and ultimatums.  I think I have one conversation through email.

You have texts. Save them. If you have a "smart" phone, look for an application that automatically back them up (my Android automatically updates them to my Gmail). If you don't have a smart phone, I would just take pictures of the texts or, if nothing else, just keep a log of them. And definitely keep a log of all the phone calls as well.

[smeep]

Originally Posted by turtle2who 

Originally Posted by Minxie 

WRT to the email: send him an email after each text and phone call, stating verbatim what he said and recording the conversation. Eventually, he'll get the hint and start emailing you. At the very least, you will have documentation that he cannot dispute.

I was just thinking the same thing today after responding to this thread earlier! I am going to do everything by email from now on. And I am going to recap what we discuss on the phone in each new email. Great idea- wish I had thought of it sooner. 

Now I'm just trying to decide how to proceed regarding his refusal to compromise.  I guess I have to say if we don't agree on a change in visitation then things must stay the same until we go to court.

That's a great idea, too!