6 year old daughter attacked this weekend by our dog :(

[jazzharmony]

This weekend our 6 year old daughter was attacked by our 6 year old pug dog.  We were at a hotel and she was sitting next to him on the couch.  He was sleeping and she was watching the television, not touching him or interacting with him at all.  Suddenly, he lunged at her neck and left a huge, full upper and lower, bite mark (no blood)  The next day, my daughter and I were sitting on the hotel bed.  The dog was sitting by us on the bed (he is never on furniture at home)  He snapped at her.  Since then we have kept them completely separated.  I read a lot online and everything says once a dog bites a child, it is always a risk.  

A little background.  This dog was a rescue at 1yo.  He was free fed with a bunch of other dogs and severely obese.  We were told he was food aggressive but nothing else.   Quickly, he established his place with our other dog, who is now almost 13.  6yo pug has never stopped trying to prove his place with our other dog.  We have had to keep them separate most of the time but they do like to play and snuggle together.  6yo attacks 13yo regularly so they are monitored. 

When 6yo pug sleeps he twitches and shakes and makes strange noises.  It's as if he is having a nightmare and/or has some form of PTSD.

I addressed the issue of younger pug attacking older pug years ago, with our former vet.  She said it was all normal.  We have a new vet now and I spoke to the lady at the front desk who was not very helpful.  The new vet is calling us back.  

Other factors.  6yo pug is being treated for heartworm (positive on test but cardiologist says no evidence in scans) and has tested positive for lyme.  He also had to have an eye removed last month.  FWIW, he was consistently aggressive toward our other dog before the health issues.

We all feel terrible about the prospect of re-homing.  I can't imagine anyone taking him and we would not be able to put him down.  

We need advice :(

[PiggyPiggyOinkOink]

I definitely would have kept them separated after the first attack and taken my daughter to the hospital to be checked out. Dog bites are full of bacteria. Quite honestly, a dog that attacked my child once, let alone twice like that, would be put down. Period.

[greenmagick]

Lyme can cause a lot of issues, including behavioral.  I am so sorry your daughter was attacked, but I dont think jumping to pts is the answer if this is a new and sudden behavior. New and sudden behavior is almost always health related and he has had a lot of things going on as of late!!!  It could be the lyme, it could be he is not coping well with the loss of one eye and he was startled by your daughter.

Yes, for now definitely keep separate.  Treat the lyme and get a behaviorist involved to help.  And its not really once a dog bites its always a risk, honestly every dog will bite at some point, many just dont reach it.  It is always a risk having a dog and child together, but if properly managed and by working with a professional behaviorist, you may be able to fix this.

You were at a hotel too?  Is this something that is fairly common for the dog?  That would defnitely add to the stress.  All dogs have a bite threshold...once that threshold is reached, they bite.  He has A LOT of things going on in his little body right now!

Rehoming is not a good option for this pup...he is sick and probably scared.  The last thing he needs is the extra stress of a new home and I personally feel its irresponsible to rehome a dog with so many issues.

Also, what have you done to help get him over is food aggression?  Have you had him in training at all?

[mattemma04]

I have a min pin that tries to boss our larger/older dog around,so I would say that is norm.I don't let him do it though if I catch him. Min pin gets crated if need be. I have read it is more common for smaller dogs to be aggresive.Perhaps their size?

If my dog bit like yours did I would be inclined to crate the pug and/or restrict him to a room with a baby gate.I might try contacting a professional,but I doubt I would ever feel comfortable letting my child near the dog.In the end I would euthanize the dog if I could not find someone willing to take on all these issues.Euthanizing is difficult to do,but once it is done you move on.

[jazzharmony]

Thanks, everyone.

I spoke to the vet and he was not very hopeful.  Because 6yo pug has exhibited aggressive behavior toward other dogs, from the beginning, and has now escalated to humans, he has little hope that a behavioralist can help.  He says re-homing is definitely not an option.  Apparently many people try to change the dog behavior and, after another bite or two, have it euthanized.  He discussed all possible medications and procedures (including teeth removal) and says none really are options.

This is so sad for us.  I have put a call in to a specialist but it can take months to get an appointment.  We can't imagine putting him down.  He is a family member and has been the love of our daughter's life.  They grew up together and she absolutely adores him.  I can't imagine having him put down and her not feeling somehow responsible, given that it was a result of him biting her.  She tells me she is not afraid of him.  Of course, I am afraid for her and will not let her near him.  She used to snuggle with him all day.

I would have him put down if it were a choice between that or our daughter's safety but we have them separated for now until we can think about it some more.  My husband is really against having him put down and thinks we can work through it and that it was a fluke thing.  The kids would definitely be devastated.  My daughter told me today that she still loves pug more than anyone else in the world.  :(

[greenmagick]

Just to be clear, most vets are not experts in behavior.  Dog aggression is totally different from people aggression.  Did the vet tell you about aggression being a side effect of lyme?

I am not saying PTS may not be the answer here, it could be. 

[jazzharmony]

We discussed the lyme issue and he said pug would be having many other symptoms if it was the type of lyme implicated in sudden aggression.  He talked about it in depth but the bottom line for me was that he was aggressive long before he tested positive for lyme.

[greenmagick]

I dont know your dog, but from what you said he was dog aggressive, never mentioned aggressive towards people. That is why I said sudden behavior change.  If there have been signs leading up to this, like growling, and other warning signs towards your daughter, then yes, that is a total different story (and one that could definitely have a possibility of being fixed by a behaviorist.  Again, what training has he done?  If he has had aggression issues before, what had been done to remedy them?

[jazzharmony]

He has only been aggressive toward our other dog.  There was another incident where he snapped at a stranger's dog 2 years ago.  He does not have a history of aggression toward people.

[greenmagick]

Ok, well, if he were my dog and had only been dog aggressive prior, and out of nowhere attacked my child for doing absolutely nothing, I would be looking very strongly for medical reasons.  Again, dog aggression does not equate to people aggression.  If you are sure its not the lyme, how long ago was his eye removed?  Is he used to not seeing out of that eye?  Has he had his thyroid tested?

[jazzharmony]

His eye was removed 2 months ago.  He has always been a super happy, tail wagging pug.  The day after his eye removal he was as happy as he ever was.  He has always been very loving and sweet with our kids.  I agree that there could be something medical but wonder if it is some sort of ptsd.  He seems to have nightmares and attacks from his sleep - that has always happened with him toward our other dog.  This time he was sleeping and attacked our daughter who happened to be sitting next to him.  It seems like an old problem but with a new target?

He had every test imaginable 2 months ago when he was having issues with pain in his eye and we wanted to rule out everything.  That is when he tested positive for heartworm and lyme.  All other tests were normal.  Not sure if they checked thyroid but I think they may have.  I will find out.

Thank you, greenmagick

[greenmagick]

That is a bit worrisome, that startle out of sleep.  I know of some other dogs (including one I used to own) who had similar issues.  Unfortunately, I dont know if any answers have been found for it.  

[geekgolightly]

I would try an animal behaviorist. In my city, we were lucky to have a veterinarian who is also a nationally known animal behaviorist and we consulted with him. Unfortunately, our outcome was not good, but I could never have euthanized my dog without having had a serious go at behavior modification.

[geekgolightly]

Here is Dr. Hunthausen's site. On the left is the menu. Click on behavior info for some articles.

http://westwoodanimalhospital.com/

My dog was aggressive towards other dogs intermittently and territorial with strangers, including humans, and then became aggressive toward my son and then finally my husband. After the fourth or fifth attack on my husband we said no more. But we really did try.

[PiggyPiggyOinkOink]

Maybe I am just a cold hearted person, but absolutely I would have my dog put down for that behavior, sudden/sick/dog aggressive or not. I have a dog who doesn't like small children and as a result does not live here. He lives at my husband's parents' house. They have been told and agreed to that if any small child is there (or any person really) and he attacks them for whatever unprovoked reason (unlikely, on our opinion) they are to call DH so he can make arrangements for the dog. He is not dog aggressive but I refuse to take the chance that he will "only" bite once or twice. One attack is one too many.

[Cyllya]

This reminds me of a situation my own family had: our dog Randi, who was normally not aggressive except against perceived intruders, suddenly became repeatedly aggressive toward my mom. (And just to clarify, mom and the dog lived together. He once tried to attack her while she was sleeping. There's no way he mistook her for an intruder.) It was bad enough that she was really worried for her safety. He didn't attack anyone but her.

It turns out that it was due to some kind of herbal medicine she was taking. When she stopped taking it, Randi returned to normal and the problem disappeared. Unfortunately, neither me or my mom remember which herb it was, but I'm thinking it was Valerian root. Maybe echinea. 

So has your daughter started any herbal supplements lately? If not, how about medicine, vitamins, vitamin drinks, energy drinks, new perfume/shampoo/deodorant/spray?

[BunnySlippers]

Maybe the eye removal has something to do with it?

I know two dogs with one eye.

The first was euthanized a few months after having surgery to remove it (he ran under a tractor and poked it out). He was fine initially, then his behaviour deteriorated and he was very unhappy, moody, and snappish.

The other lost her eye from a kick. She is (imo) getting a little batty. She has always been a very hyper dog, but now she is just weird, almost feral at times. She tried to take me out a few weeks ago when I was jogging. I got my eye on her....

[lunarlady]

When I was a kid our family dog bit my face. I had bloody bite marks above and below my eye. The dog was sick at the time and I startled her out of sleep. My dad said if she ever bit me again he was going to get his shotgun and shoot her. I was hysterically upset at the thought of my beloved dog getting killed for biting me. If your DD loves that dog, do not put it down for biting her. She will be very upset.

It sounds like both times the dog startled out of sleep and attacked? Was your DD on the dog's blind side? I would suggest a crate for sleeping, and a muzzle until the issue resolves so that your child can safely play with her furry friend. Modern muzzles are comortable and safe, although I suppose it might be hard with a pug to get one that fits properly. Good luck and I hope the issue resolves soon.

[jazzharmony]

We have decided that putting the dog down is not an option for our family.  The mere discussion of it traumatized our children.  Our daughter said she loves pug more than anyone in the world.  Our son broke down in tears at the thought of anyone euthanizing a dog for any reason other than the dog's suffering.  I tried to explain that under certain circumstances, it can be necessary.  We don't feel that this is one of those circumstances.  We all love this dog and feel like the only option is to focus on keeping our children, and other children, safe.  He stays in the kitchen with a baby gate and is crated when necessary.  We have always done this to protect our other dog.  We will allow no contact with other children and only heavily supervised contact with ours.  I read a lot about sleep startle and it sounds like he has it in an exaggerated form.  He did also snap at our daughter while awake - I think to send her a warning.   

I have mixed feelings about this but can't conceive of euthanizing our dog without a huge cost to our children's emotional well being.  

[plantnerd]

Another thing is keep the dog off of the couch, beds, etc.  My dog will half ass growl if she is on the couch and you sit down on it too.  "My bed"  Nope dog, my couch, get your butt on the floor.  Once I started being very strict about what was mine and what was hers it eliminated the dominance behavior.