TPR ever not granted by judge?

[alwayslearning66]

Hullo.

My question is if any of you have experienced a Termination of Parental Rights petition denied by a judge. I'm writing on a nerve wracking day as we wait for a pivotal judicial review to be completed. We're nearing the 1 year in state custody mark (deadline?). I went yesterday to the originally scheduled review, but the correctional facility failed to transport bio parent. Other bio parent is always a no show at these things, though his lawyer is always there to say he's AWOL. Sigh. We hope today that they will schedule the TPR hearing as well as learn some details about the bio mom's lawyer's intended strategy.

The reasons for fingernail biting are that dfs is in care because no one was available in the family to care (biodad got jeopardy ruling due to neglect). Bio mom lost custoday because she entered jail on an unrelated charge and is now awaiting sentencing for a secondary unrelated charge that may or may not keep her in past the year mark. He entered custody in March (10 months ago) and was with bio mom for about 8 months total out of his 3.5 yearsof life. He has no notable attachment to her which she's been trying to change using letters with pictures he likes, and notes of various lengths that he has no interest in. I believe I will be testifying on this.

So, can anyone reassure me that all will go our way? We hope to adopt him as he was placed in our home as a foster to adopt home. The GAL, case worker and AGG filed a petition for TPR. Do they ever do this and lose?  He's not visited her in jail due to his age and the environment's possible affect on his psyche. I've sent letters to bio mom and have heard through case worker and GAL various things that cause me to believe her behavior is unstable and that she is unsuitable as a parent. HOWEVER, she did not lose custody due to neglect or abuse- just her own stupid law breaking activity.

Sorry for this long message. I'm so hoping this will be over soon!

[Smithie]

No advice, just sympathy... and fingers crossed for you and for your foster son, who deserves a stable life with parents who are not in and out of jail. But I really have no idea which way this will go. Yes, workers and GALs and lawyers for the state have been ignored before when they asked for TPR. But at least they asking. 

 Please let us know what happens!

[buffalomama]

Fingers crossed,can't predict the outcome but I do know that the law states that if a child is in foster care "15 of the most recent 22 months" then a TPR must be filed. I'm not sure what the exact case or grounds are against the mom but if they filed a TPR already, they probably have a strong case. Ditto on the above comment "at least they're asking" sounds like the worker is on top of it if he or she is ahead of deadline.  A TPR can be filed against the parent (in this case the dad -in this case sounds like this should have been filed already?) for abandonment at the 9 month mark if they fail to respond to requests for contact or attempt to contact the child.  At least in NY state the law is clear on that, even if he shows up the day after the filing he shouldn't have a chance at getting the child back. Good luck and I hope this helps.

[alwayslearning66]

Very helpful, especially about the timing and the dad since abandonment is clearly his deal. I just learned that our TPR hearing was set for TOMORROW! Yikes. I spoke with the AAG tonight re. questions she'll ask. Luckily I've already testified re. visitation, so I'm not so nervous. I was warned that there will likely be an appeal made by the defense if TPR is granted. He will argue she should be allowed to get her sentence (hearing later this month) before the court permanently cut all her rights, as the AAG put it. I've been told several times that in our state it i the clock ticks to one year before the child is expected to have permanency. Supposedly this comes from the Feds requirements. Interesting re. NY. Perhaps it's in how it's looked at...

Also, the AAG did say that it "rarely" goes the other way when a TPR motion is made. That was nice to hear, especially on a system level considering all the time and money that goes into this process!

[prescottmom]

Good luck at your hearing today. It sounds like a no brainer for bio-dad...he has had ample opportunuity and no excuses re: visitation and court related issues. It could be more complicated with mom, as her incarceration prevents her from complience. It can get very dicey in those situations and alot depended on her history and the sympathies of the judge hearing the case. In Massachusettes, where I was a foster parent, even infants in arms were brought to jail for visitation with moms or dads who were incarcerated. If the child was in foster care previous to your home, than obviously there is quite a history, which is also looked at. Good luck!

[alwayslearning66]

Thanks for the well wishes and advice. Turns out the judge will be on vacation thereby delaying his judgement to February 24th- sigh. We're under the impression he's waiting in part to appease the feds (allow more time) and to create an un-appealable situation. We're trying to adjust to the binary life we're living (stay or go) by looking at the fact that his possible leaving would require hoops xy and z to be jumped through before dfs would transition. The morning after my testimony, he did cry silent tears over his cereal and when asked, said he missed his birth mom. When presented with more notes, a bible and book from her, he said she's the best birth mom ever. It's uncanny that this week is the week he begins to truly open process this stuff. It's sad that he looked at a picture of himself with birth mom and dad and excitedly pointed to dad- especially given his abandonment and total lack of presence in dfs' life. He still clearly says he wants to live here, so we feel better about this situation. Given that he's 4, this is not all too important.

I did want to ask about the required questions from the judge (fed requirement). He asked me if dfs were to transition to another home, how long would that take. I had no clear answer and said that he's been with us for 8 months and is still insecure. Anyone know what is considered excessive or necessary? Part of me wishes I said no transition would work, but I wanted to maintain my integrity and not venture into sooth saying :)

[Smithie]

I think you gave the best answer and most honest answer that you could. You're not a freaking child development expert - you're a foster mom, and your observation is that eight months has not been enough time for DFS to fully transition into his home with you. 

The judge is probably making a good choice re: appeasing the Feds, but still, it's tough on you and your DH. Best wishes to you! 

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

I work in the field of child protection, and what the AAG told you is accurate.  In rare cases the judge will deny the TPR, but even so that does NOT mean that the parents get the child back - it means the parent has more time to get their lives together.  I know you must be feeling unfathomable anxiety about this case, I hope that the judge grants the petition quickly.  

[alwayslearning66]

Your info makes sense and allows me a bit more faith in the system. We have two weeks more of lala land and then a decision will be announced. Meanwhile, dfs is talking more and more about his birth parents in that mix of fact and fantasy children his age do. Twould be easier to have these discussions if there were a finality. Ah vell. Thanks!

[MissinNYC]

When the GAL is advising TPR, it's most likely that the judge will agree. Going against the recommendation of the GAL and DFS is relatively unheard of around here, at least. 

Good luck. 

[alwayslearning66]

Hoping your "round here" and mine are similar! Thanks for the encouraging comment.

[bella99]

I'm a caseworker in NY and I've been involved in one case where the judge ruled there was "permanent neglect" but did not rule in favor of the local DSS, and instead handed down a one year suspended judgement, giving the parent more time to work on service goals.  During that time, however, the parent wasn't allowed visitation or any contact aside from court hearings.  One year later, the suspended judgement was revoked and the parent consented to having their rights terminated.  This was for a teenager though, who was unwilling to consent to an adoption anyway.  I don't imagine that, even in the event of a suspended judgement, it would be for as long as a year.

In NY, there generally isn't movement towards changing the permanency goal to "placement for adoption" until the 12 month mark.  At 15 months is when they will usually file.  Otherwise, it really is grounds for appeal and will slow an adoption down if that happens.

[alwayslearning66]

I think grounds for appeal is why the judge was being ever so careful to cover all the required bases and then some. The situation is thoroughly complicated and I can't go into detail here outside of saying this is the second time child is in the system. Suffice to say they have good reason for putting in a TPR motion on the early side, as the GAL testified.

[busymom32]

 If you ever find out what happend, please let me know. My son's case went to TPR also. The judge ordered it and my attny was all gung ho about me signing over my rights voluntarily. I dunno what to do. I am soooooo scared. I know this, I'm not going down without a fight!

[Smithie]

It's hard to give advice without knowing specifics, but - if you have a lawyer to is advising you to sign a TPR without other consideration such as a reduction in criminal charges, then you probably have a terrible lawyer and need a new one. If your lawyer considers TPR a slam-dunk in your case either way, and is trying to do his/her lawyerly best to keep your butt out of jail, then that's a different matter. 

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

Originally Posted by Smithie 

It's hard to give advice without knowing specifics, but - if you have a lawyer to is advising you to sign a TPR without other consideration such as a reduction in criminal charges, then you probably have a terrible lawyer and need a new one. If your lawyer considers TPR a slam-dunk in your case either way, and is trying to do his/her lawyerly best to keep your butt out of jail, then that's a different matter. 

I don't know about that - if your attorney thought you would be better off going another route, such as an open adoption, your attorney may have your best interests at heart.  They know a whole lot more about the system than their clients. 

[queenjane]

Often, there will be encouragement to surrender rather than allow the judge to TPR against the parents' will, because in many places a voluntary surrender preserves your right to raise future children. I know here in MI, having a TPR on your record is grounds for automatical removal and TPR of any future children born to you. So if a parent's lawyer feels they will lose the case, they may try to salvage what they can.

[alwayslearning66]

An update to this... the judge granted TPR. This is a by the book judge who only writes such an order if he is certain is cannot be appealed successfully, I was told. The birth mother will likely attempt an appeal therebye delaying our dfs' sense of permanency. I was told that the briefs would be written, reviewed and a permanent order issued in about 6 months. That's 6 more months of telling our dfs "maybe" while life moves ahead all around him. We did tell him that the first judge said yes. We wanted him to have a sense of light in this process which is quite weighty for such a little guy.He knows that another judge will make the final decision. I keep telling myself he is in a good place and can therefore wait some more. I wish I had a crystal ball to see what problems we can prevent now by the way we talk or don't talk about his birth mother. He rarely brings her up and we don't pit her against us, so he has no concept of living with her outside of the clear statement he made that he didn't want to. We don't perseverate on that possibility, especially now that the chances of such a move are quite slim. Sigh.

[zombie]

Congrats on TPR!

[alwayslearning66]

Thanks :) It feels so surreal and uncertain at the moment given all the drama that comes with this, so a simple congrats is nice to hear at the moment. I've been asked by the GAL what kind of contact do we wish at this juncture. Talk about difficult decisions. When I tried to schluff it off onto DHHS, she told me that as the most constant contact in his life, I should know what he needs. Ugh. How do we decide these things??