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Big Love Season 5.........ITS COMING! 1/16/2011 - Page 7

post #121 of 150

anyone know what the symbolism of the cattle around the baptism pool meant??



loved the ending . . . tho wish we had 2hrs for the finale and gotten more details ...

post #122 of 150

Oh.  OK.  Well, then. 

post #123 of 150


Originally Posted by rainsmom View Post

anyone know what the symbolism of the cattle around the baptism pool meant??


The baptismal font in Solomon's temple was constructed on the backs of 12 oxen as well. For some early Christian baptismal fonts in the same arrangement the oxen were thought to represent the 12 apostles. 

March, 1993 Ensign, I Have a Question: Why are oxen used in the design of our temples baptismal fonts?
Edward J. Brandt, administrative assistant, Evaluation Division, Church Correlation Department; and Gospel Doctrine teacher, Hillcrest Second Ward, Sandy Utah Hillcrest Stake.

"Oxen are often used in the scriptures to represent the twelve tribes of Israel. The first reference is found in the record of the exodus of the children of Israel from Egypt. The Lord led the Israelites to Mount Sinai, where they dwelt for a little over a year.

While there, the Lord directed the Israelites to construct a portable building wherein ordinances could be administered until a temple could be built. (See D&C 124:37-38.) The ordinances performed in this mobile structure were designed to prepare the people to accept, in due time, the higher order. (See Gal. 3:24; Heb. 9:1-28.)

At the dedication of this structure, commonly called the tabernacle, the leaders of each tribe presented a variety of gifts and offerings. Among them were six wagons drawn by twelve oxen for the proper transport of the tabernacle. (See Num. 7:2-8.)

In ancient Israel, the ox, bull, wild bull, (or unicorn, as it is rendered in the King James Version) was a type or symbol of strength and power. (See Num. 23:22, n. 22a; Num. 24:8.) In addition, the bull and wild bull symbolize the people of Joseph as represented by his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh. (See Deut. 33:17, n. 17b.)

Decades after the tabernacle was dedicated, Solomon built a great temple complex. Included in the temple was a large basin font supported by the similitude of oxen. (2 Chr. 4:3.) Solomon employed Hiram of Tyre to build the temple, and Hirams foundry laborers produced the bronze oxen for the temple. (See 1 Kgs. 7:40, 44-46; 2 Chr. 4:11, 15-17.) The oxen were placed in groups of three, with each group facing outward toward a point of the compass, and with the large basin placed upon their backs. (See 1 Kgs. 7:25; 2 Chr. 4:4.)

What was the purpose of this molten sea? (See 1 Kgs. 7:23; 2 Chr. 4:3.) The scriptures indicate that it was for the priests to wash in (2 Chr. 4:6)evidently either for washing themselves or cleansing others. (See Ex. 30:18-21; Ex. 40:30-32.) Cleansing and covenant-making are fundamental principles for the house of Israel in every age; ancient Israel practiced baptism even under the law of Moses. (See 1 Cor. 10:2; 2 Ne. 9:23; D&C 84:26-27.) Whether or not this font was used for baptism in Solomons day is lost from the scriptural record.

The location of the font is also unclear; the record suggests that it might have stood in the temple courtyard. (See 1 Kgs. 7:38-39; 2 Chr. 4:9-10.) The scriptures record that when the Babylonians destroyed the temple some decades later, the brasen sea that was in the house of the Lord was salvaged for its brass. (See 2 Kgs. 25:10-16; Jer. 52:15-20.)

Almost one hundred years after the temple was constructed, King Ahaz of Judah remodeled the sea by removing the oxen and setting the font upon a stone foundation. (See 2 Kgs. 16:17.) The original oxen or their replacements may have been restored later as the support for the font; Jeremiah reported that the Babylonians destroyed the twelve brasen bulls. (See Jer. 52:17, 20.)

The ancient pattern of temple-building has influenced the construction of temples in our own dispensation. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that the baptismal font was instituted as a similitude of the grave, and was commanded to be in a place underneath where the living are wont to assemble. (D&C 128:13.) Baptismal fonts in latter-day temples since the Nauvoo Temple have followed the ancient pattern wherever possible. (See History of the Church 4:446; 7:358, 430-31.) For various reasons, some fontssuch as those in the Hawaii, Atlanta Georgia, and Seoul Korea templesare not situated below the main level of the temple, but most fonts stand upon the statues representing the twelve oxen.

The oxen that support temple fonts symbolize the tribes of Israel and the strength upon which Gods work rests. (Picture copyright by the Corporation of the President, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

Thus, we can see that the twelve oxen represent the tribes of Israel and also signify the strength and power on which God has established his work for the children of mankind. Those who are obedient and faithful to their covenants are the covenant family chosen to accomplish Gods purposes. They are the ones upon whom his work rests, just as the temple fonts rest upon the backs of the oxen."


post #124 of 150

Wow, what a let down!  This season really felt like they just gave up and started throwing the most ridiculous story ideas out there and going with it.  Why did Wanda and Joey disappear forever?  Why have Margene go crazy on the goji juice train?  Why have Bill & Barb break up/make up/break up/etc. etc.?  His mom & dad story line went on f.o.r.e.v.e.r.


I just gave the whole season a thumb's down.  Yep, the whole thing.  They lost Home Plus and then didn't show what they were doing to make money.  We never saw Teeny again either.  Ick.  I was left feeling very upset/unsatisfied and had to watch a DVR'ed episode of Wipeout to feel better.

post #125 of 150
It was a huge let down for me, too, though I expected it to be.

I still have to say - WTH happened to Wanda and Joey?
Why have Teeny hide in the bathroom on the last episode?
Whatever happened to Albie and Mama Grant? (Did they manage to get off? Are they in prison?)
Are the compound people still coming to Bill's church, even with Barb having the priesthood? How's that working?
Did Bill have really, really good life insurance as a Senator? Is that why they didn't have to sell the houses?
Margene said she and Bill had been married for 6 years - We're really supposed to believe she was only 22 this season?
Why did they go through the whole Mama Grant getting pregnant thing if she was just going to stop the meds because Albie told her to? I thought they were going to go somewhere with a revenge trip for Aldine, but they just dropped it!

I've really got to stop being so annoyed by this. lol.gif
post #126 of 150

It's over now, maybe we all just need a cleansing purge before we can move on LOL

post #127 of 150

Ok, I can see I'm the odd one out but I actually liked it. I only watched this morning and because I'm subscribed to this thread, I couldn't help looking at some comments first. I told myself I would just sort of squint and glance but I saw a lot of "disappointing" mentioned so my expectations were pretty low. 


It was no LOST, that's for sure, but considering how this (and last) season had been going, I think they tied up their crazy story lines nicely. I liked how Bill had his come to Jesus moment (or in this case, that lady he keeps seeing, wife of Joseph Smith?). I really didn't see how they could have worked out "happily ever after" with Bill in prison or taking over the compound. I LIKE seeing the 3 women being strong and independent while still leaning on each other for support. I LOVED that Bill asked for a blessing from Barb as he was dying (a little cheesy, yes, but nice) and I love that she's now a priest or whatever. I can imagine Barb took over the church and gets some money that way, Nikki probably took over the running of the household (something I can see her being happy with) and Margene going on missions works. Remember how she said that she thinks she finally realized what she wanted to do? I love that she gets a chance to do it. And I figure Bill did have a good insurance policy. The 'honeybee' out front was a nice touch, showing that Barb is free and doing her thing. 


Ben is "lucky" his Dad died, otherwise I'm sure Heather would never have gotten back with him.


It was nice to see Amanda back for a cameo (can't even remember her name in the show!)


I liked that Nikki cracked/softened a bit (in her own way). 


I sort of wonder what their future would be like. I imagine they'll still stay very, very close but eventually I think they would all move on and remarry separately. 

post #128 of 150
Honestly, I would have preferred seeing bill get offed in the beginning of the season, and the rest of the season spent on tying up loose ends and showing how the women dealt with his death and coming to terms with what being a family meant to them outside of Bill's control.
post #129 of 150

In an LA Times interview, show creator Mark V. Olsen had this to say when asked what became of Joey and Wanda:


"I think it was addressed at the end of last season, that Joey, on the heels of Bill leading him in Mexico, wandered off in Mexico and kind of never came back. We actually had an episode, I think it was Episode 3, our Christmas episode, where we had a scene with Wanda at the house, [but] we were so over budget on that episode, so overextended, we had to lose two or three scenes, and that’s one of those, unfortunately, that we had to lose. So we lost that little bit of narration as well. Those are some of the regrets that you do have."


Link to interview

post #130 of 150

Also, what happened with Nikki's daughter and her teacher?  They just let that die on the vine.  He seemed so in love with her, would he really just give up like that?  I don't think so.

post #131 of 150
Originally Posted by New_Natural_Mom View Post

Also, what happened with Nikki's daughter and her teacher?  They just let that die on the vine.  He seemed so in love with her, would he really just give up like that?  I don't think so.

I think he loved that she was young, innocent, into him, easy pickings etc. I don't think it was true love on his end, or if it was, he realized he didn't have a leg to stand on what with her age and being her teacher. 


For her, Nikki said something about yes, you loved him, you chose to have him as your first love because you knew it couldn't go anywhere so it felt safe. And that Nikki had done the same thing. 

post #132 of 150

I let them know what I felt about it on their Facebook page.  I'm sure to receive some hate mail now.  Oh well, it's not my fault it sucked.  I wanted to know what happened to Joey, Wanda, and Alby too.  I wasn't impressed with the neighbor shooting him.  He had no real motivation.  He had motivation to shoot his wife or maybe even Margene, but Bill?  Really?  Give me a break.  I was kind of hoping that Carol-Lynn would off Nicki since she started acting like she wanted to do it.  Of all of them, she is the most vile.

post #133 of 150

ITA that whole OM gosh you sodded my lawn and my life sucks so I'm shooting you made not one iota of sense. Especially after his wife told Margene last week that he had crashed two cars and she didn't think it was an accident. So kill himself ya, Bill not really. But hey they pretty much just pulled the whole season out of thin air and previous seasons so.



post #134 of 150

I am in the minority too.. I haven't posted before on this thread but I read and read and read... I liked this season, yes it was a bit out there and some things seemed like they went nowhere, but for me it's fiction, it's a story and it's meant to a be a bit out there. The things that go nowhere are in case a series does keep running. I thought they tied up the Adeline's pregnancy when she stopped taking the drugs. And while I don't have time right now many of the questions in the posts above *I* thought WERE answered, but they did it in a way that wasn't direct.


Anyways *I* loved this episode. I knew Bill was going to be shot the minute I saw the neighbour standing there. And in a way I thought it was perfect, although I would much prefer that everyone lives and goes on to live happily ever after ;)


I can't believe it's over.

post #135 of 150

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that I cried during the death scene. Sobbed. And my husband chose that moment to walk in and sort of laughed at me but I didn't care!


I just watched it again. The whole vibe of the show felt different this time because I KNEW where it was going. One thing I missed the first time was that when they were in the church, Bill said something along the lines of you know how it works here, no one holds the keys, we're just custodians of the word until Heavenly Father shows us the true prophet to lead us. And then the door opens and Barb walks in. So I guess she IS supposed to be the next Prophet. Quite a change from Albie! 

post #136 of 150

The moment I saw the neighbor, I knew he'd kill Bill.  I was happy to see that. 


While I thought the writing sucked this season, I thought the series finale was pretty good.  I liked it.  I cried a lot.  Like when Barb didn't do her baptism (saw that coming, too, but that's not the point!). 


And, the Lois and whatever his name is scene was sweet.  I don't see how it could be seen otherwise.  He was telling her the story of their life together.  Hecka romantic, esp. since she couldn't remember and was dying. 


While I've never cared for Bill, and I liked how they killed him off instead of making him see his "grace" as the calling to be the Prophet (duh!), I'm glad he finally stopped being such a control freak toward the end.  I'm glad he backed off a bit.  And asking for Barb to bless him.  How did anyone not cry???  Beautiful!


I thought it unlikely that the church would accept her as the priestholder, but whatevs.


I'm glad oh girl didn't take Ben back!  That would have been stupid. 


All in all, a good series finale, IMO.  Sure there are unanswered questions, but I've yet to see a show not leave questions unanswered.  I actually stopped watching LOST b/c it was getting so stupid with the unanswered questions toward the end.  At least the major characters were accounted for in some kind of way.  And, there was so much LOVE in the episode.  Just beautiful. 

post #137 of 150
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post

I'm glad oh girl didn't take Ben back!  That would have been stupid. 


The implication in the last scene is that she did, eventually, take him back.
post #138 of 150

yes, i thought i saw a ring on her finger.

post #139 of 150
Thread Starter 

I think the neighbor killing Bill was meant to be ironic.  Like Alby wanted him dead, and tried to do it himself, anyone of the other senetors would have had just cause (in their minds) to shut Bill up for good, but the neighbor had no real solid reasons to hate Bill other then being depressed and insane.  As soon as I saw his posture in how he was standing, I knew Bill was a goner. 


I actually didnt cry at the dying/blessing scene.  I got verklempt at the final scene where Margene was getting ready to leave for her (second, did anyone catch that?) mission, and she turned to hug her sister wives.  And there was that blurry vision of Bill sitting in the background.  GOD, im getting choked up just thinking about it now.  LOL


Anyone else notice margenes baby had not aged a DAY since the begining of the season?  However, 4 months should have passed.  (We started around christmas time, and ended at Easter, HELLO!!!) That must have been meant to mean something of the season as well.  Christmas representing the birth of Christ, Easter representing the his death and resurrection.  So what of it?  Bill was resurrected in his wives becoming the empowered and strong willed women he spoke of at the church? 


Im telling you, sometimes I dont want to have to think it out that much (eh hem, LOST?????) I just want to be told what the HECK is going on. 


Princess, were you a Six Feet Under fan?  Because Ive said it before, and will say it again, BEST.SEASON FINALE.EVER!  I dont think anyone ever tied up loose ends better then those writers.  hands down.  LOL

post #140 of 150

Yes, 6 Feet Under had the best finale ever!


I read the interview linked above and the writers said that they didn't want Albie to kill Bill because it would seem like the dark side was winning. But on the other hand, I think they figured that Bill dying was the only way it would work out. And that the point of the show was to show that family and love is the most important thing of all. Bill pretty much says this the last time he speaks. I find it interesting that a gay couple wrote about a polygamist family to get the idea across that families come in all shapes and sizes and that love is what's important. 

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