Zombie Mommy seeks help! (long)

[cricketina]

I'm new here so don't kill me if I'm asking questions that have been answered a million times over.  I tried reading through recent posts but nothing seemed to fit my situation.  NOTHING seems to fit my situation.

DS was the perfect sleeper when he was first born.  He slept all night long (waking to nurse every 2 hours) until he was 2 months old when he started STTN.  He STTN until he was 4 months old and then started waking once or twice a night.  Okay, fine, I can handle that.  By 5 months he was waking a few times a night and I was getting worn out.  We took him out of his bassinet which was right next to my side of the bed and arranged his crib as a side car (with the front taken off and pushed up to the bed) thinking he was getting to big/uncomfortable in his bassinet.  That did little to help the multiple night wakings.  Around 7 months, he started waking EVERY SINGLE HOUR of the night, sometimes giving me a couple hours in the morning to sleep.  This continued until just recently.  We eventually put the front back on his crib in hopes that a little distance from me would keep him from waking to nurse so frequently.  The crib is put together and the short end is against the bed by my head.  He sleeps best and longest when he's in bed with me, but I sleep so lightly and wake frequently when he's next to me...not to mention his new found appreciation for nighttime gymnastics.  Around 8 months he started screaming every time I/we would try to put him to sleep.  An LC suggested we cut wheat out of his diet to see if that helps with the screaming.  It does seem to have had an impact.

He is now 9.5 months old and our nights are still wakeful but no screaming.  Naps have gotten a lot better and he'll sleep 45min - 1.5hrs in his crib alone without waking (sometimes 45min, nurse, another 45min).  At night, he'll nurse to sleep without screaming.  Then I'll get 2-4 hours of sleep before he wakes for the first time.  I'll get up, nurse him to sleep, back in his crib, and he'll sleep another 2 hours.  Then it's up every hour until I bring him into bed with me.  Sometimes I bring him into bed the first time he wakes, sometimes the second, sometimes the third...

I don't know what to do.  I NEED more sleep.  I'm exhausted beyond belief.  I'm not looking to night wean him, but I really don't think he needs to nurse for food as often as he's nursing in the night.  Even if he woke twice a night to nurse, I could handle that.  Once a night would be ideal.  He does eat solids (BLW) and eats a decent lunch and dinner.  DH has never gotten up with him in the night because there's been no point.  DS won't take a bottle so it'd be pointless for me to pump and give him a bottle.

Part of me is wondering about doing some gentle sleep training.  DH is off for a week, so 9 days starting this Sat.  I was thinking of working with him to help comfort DS back to sleep without nursing if he wakes after less than 3 or 4 hours, making sure DS stays awake and properly nurses when I do nurse him.  And not letting DS in our bed at all (I'm wondering if he's waking so frequently because I'm inconsistent with when I bring him to bed with me).  I'd love to keep DS in our bed if he would snuggle sweetly and not beat me up all night long and/or if I could actually sleep with him in bed with me.

What do you think?  Any suggestions?  Please....I'm desperate!

[Chamomile Girl]

Well, your kid sounds like mine honestly and he is still up to the same tricks at 18 months old.  The only thing that keeps me sane is DH gets up with DS at about 7 and then lets me sleep alone until 9.  That is about to change though because DH has a new schedule, so I am starting to seriously think about night weaning as well.

So no real advice but plenty of comiseration.  I keep telling myself that this too shall pass and that there are kids out there who are "good" sleepers.  We were at the Ped today and she told us we should start trying for a second kid...and I was like .

[zamia7]

Mine never STTN, and from 3-6 months woke every 45minutes, with an occasional stretch of 1.5-2 hours.  Then at 6 months it got a little better (When I cut dairy from my diet), only every 1-2 hours.  Around 7 months, we made him a bed on the floor, so that I could nurse him to sleep, then get up and leave him, either for naps or at night, without having to move him.  The crib is a storage box in our house.  Those mattresses are SOOOOOO uncomfortable--I tried putting that on the floor for him but the floor was more comfortable.  When we did that he would start the night out with a 2-3 hour stretch, then wake every 1-2 hours.  Finally we started nightweaning.  The first go of it he did his first 8 hour stretch.  That was it, then it was back to the old tricks because I gave in.  At 13 months, we just did it. We stuck with it for two weeks, and have a 5-6 hour stretch almost every night (Even an occasional 7!), and he now only wakes 1-3x a night.  I will nurse him after the first waking, then not again until 5 or 6. My husband has helped a lot, and that helps.  Before a year, my son would absolutely not let anyone care for him other than me.  He'd get so upset he'd vomit. 

Our set up now---he has a full size mattress on the floor in his own (mostly babyproof) room.  He loves it. This way, if he is having a bad night, one of us can sleep with him.  And I can nurse him to sleep and leave him. He is now 15 1/2 months.  The floor bed (folded up blankets on the floor) worked out well, because even though his stretches were still fairly short, at least I had my own space in my own bed.

I hope something I have said will help you.  I totally feel your pain, except I never knew what I was missing, because he never STTN.

[cricketina]

I don't know if I should feel comfort or despair!  I do feel better hearing that I'm not "screwing him up" like so many in the CIO camp like to tell me (i.e., my SILs).  Last night I put him back in the crib for the 4th time at 2:30am (goes to bed around 10:00...hubby works late).  I don't know when I brought him to bed with me.  I always know that he's in bed with me but I usually can't remember getting him since I can pull him into out bed from the crib without getting up.

Do you think not letting him in our bed at all will encourage him to sleep longer in his crib since he won't be waiting for me to give in?  Does that kind of consistency apply to sleeping and/or this situation?

Zamia--when did you start night weaning the first time?  DS will let DH comfort him if he's not truly hungry....usually.  Thinking about the floor thing....wondering if it will help at all....

[zamia7]

The first time he was just under 12 months, and it totally would have worked, but then we traveled and he got a runny nose, and I felt bad.  The second time he was actually teething, but I just could not handle waking so much anymore.  I was getting very short tempered and impatient, not to mention literally dizzy with exhaustion.

When you say 10, your little one goes to bed at 10?  That could be another part of the problem.  Try putting him to bed at 6 or 7.  Sounds early, but lo actually slept later when we started putting him to bed at 7 instead of 9 or 930. His bedtime now is between 7 and 730.  I know it sucks your DH works late, but babies best natural sleep times are going to bed between 6 and 8 and getting up between 6 and 8.  (according to the many many many books I have read on babies and sleeping lol)  Maybe DH could spend time with him in the morning instead.

Consistency is good, but I swear those crib mattresses are terrible!  I know they are supposed to be firm, but jeez louise are they uncomfortable!  Keep us posted!

[cricketina]

I've heard that about bed times before.  I've also heard moms who say it never mattered for their child.  DH doesn't get home until 8:30 some nights.  He leaves in the morning before 7.  If I put DS to bed earlier, he would literally only see him on his days off.  Some weeks that's only 1 day and a lot of weeks that's only week days when I have other kids in the house and we have no family time until the kids leave.  I really hesitate to try such an early bedtime knowing that DH will rarely see his son and we won't be able to leave the house as a family...like ever....which would mean I'd never have help at the grocery store and whatnot *yikes*

Bedtime starts at 10 and he's asleep in his crib before 10:30.  We tried a couple of different "formal" bedtime routines but those just proved to wake him up more than calm him down.  Now it's diaper and PJs, and nursing while soft lullabies play.  I set the lullaby toy for 20 minutes and nearly always turn it off before 20 min is up (with him slumbering peacefully).  I tried introducing a lovey to give him something to cuddle and help him fall back asleep on his own.  Except that he hates anything I've tried, tries to push it away from him, and throws it if given the opportunity.

His crib is terribly "unsafe" to fight the cold sheets/rock hard mattress thing.  He seems comfortable enough and will quickly settle in when I put him down (asleep).  Who knows...

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by cricketina 

I've heard that about bed times before.  I've also heard moms who say it never mattered for their child.  DH doesn't get home until 8:30 some nights.  He leaves in the morning before 7.  If I put DS to bed earlier, he would literally only see him on his days off.  Some weeks that's only 1 day and a lot of weeks that's only week days when I have other kids in the house and we have no family time until the kids leave.  I really hesitate to try such an early bedtime knowing that DH will rarely see his son and we won't be able to leave the house as a family...like ever....which would mean I'd never have help at the grocery store and whatnot *yikes*

Bedtime starts at 10 and he's asleep in his crib before 10:30.  We tried a couple of different "formal" bedtime routines but those just proved to wake him up more than calm him down.  Now it's diaper and PJs, and nursing while soft lullabies play.  I set the lullaby toy for 20 minutes and nearly always turn it off before 20 min is up (with him slumbering peacefully).  I tried introducing a lovey to give him something to cuddle and help him fall back asleep on his own.  Except that he hates anything I've tried, tries to push it away from him, and throws it if given the opportunity.

His crib is terribly "unsafe" to fight the cold sheets/rock hard mattress thing.  He seems comfortable enough and will quickly settle in when I put him down (asleep).  Who knows...

Weeeeellll its certainly possible that your kid is a late bedtime natural but that is pretty rare.  My kid would fall asleep on his own at around 9-10 until he was about 14 months and then he dropped the second nap and now needs to go to bed at about 7:30.  Some nights earlier.  If he goes to sleep at 7pm he will wake up around 7am.  If he goes to sleep at 10pm (or like New Years Eve 11pm) he still gets up at 7am and is crazy tired the next day.  And a crazy toddler = bad times.  So I guess I am saying that a late bedtime may work fine for your family right now but that may change, and if it does you are going to have to go with the needs of your son over the needs of you or his father.  So have a plan in your back pocket for the eventuality.

Shopping, for example, can happen after he is asleep.  Leave him with DH and go by yourself.  It will feel wonderful and will take a fraction of the time.

I don't get the crib mattress hating.  The one we have is fine (I know this for a fact because I've slept on it LOL).  So I guess not all cribs are the same.  Oh, and I hear you with the lovey thing...mine won't take one either.  He might once he's weaned, since its pretty clear his lovies are boobie1 and boobie2.

[Mom2M]

I can totally relate to this except that my LO is now 13 months!  Same kind of timeline just a little longer, sigh...I kept thinking it would get better.

Anyway, last night was horrible.  She woke up 3 times in a row, at about 45 min intervals and I was losing it.  I googled sleep remedies for babies and the first thing I read suggested lavender.  DUH!  I don't know why I didn't think to try it before.

So I took some lavender and crushed it in a piece of muslin and tied it like a bag.  I put that right under the edge of my pillow which is near her head and she slept for 3.5 hours, woke for a few min to nurse and then slept for another 5 hours.  You know, I felt like I got a really restful sleep and maybe it was from the lavender!

Here is how we are set up.  I have 5 yo DD in the bed and a crib sidecarred for DD2.  I thought she would probably more sleep in the bed but she won't for long, she'll start squirming until I lay her on the crib mattress and then fall asleep, she's been like that since she was born.

So she's on my right and that's where I put the lavender, right under my pillow.

BTW re crib mattresses, ours is really comfortable (I slept on it too, lol)

Also, re bedtimes...I think it is different for every child probably.  With DD1, we had a late schedule (REALLY late).    We used to go to sleep around midnight, she would get up at 10-10:30 and then take a couple naps.  That was all the way till she was 3 and then she started preschool 2 days a week and it was a major struggle for her to adjust to getting up at 8:30.  We started going to bed a little earlier but usually around 10 still on non school nights and she still slept late.

Same with 4 year old preschool at 3 days a week.  However, this year we have to get her up at 7 am (!!) to go to school and bedtime has changed drastically,  now they go to bed at 8:30-9 at the latest.  It was great while the late nights and late mornings lasted, though!

I wonder sometimes if DD2 would do better staying up late but I haven't tried it yet.  If the lavender doesn't continue to work, I might!

[zamia7]

Hmm, maybe we just got a bum mattress!  DH and I have an extra firm, and the crib mattress is harder than that.  VERY uncomfy.  When LO was about 5 months we tried a chiro for him to help with sleep and she doused him with lavender (which I used to love) and it just gave us all headaches because it was so strong.  I bet it would have worked in lesser form.  We have the lavender lab, which I love, but doesn't seem to make a difference with him.  DS is also a very high need baby/toddler.  Good luck to you ladies!  I hope you get some rest!  It is all about trial and error and finding what works for you.  We got some good ideas from the No Cry Sleep Solution.  It wasn't a miracle, but there were some ideas that helped.

[skfmama]

We're in a similar situation as you! DS is almost 10 mo and wakes up 3-? times a night...sometimes I'm so tired I can't remember in the morning.

DH is willing to help, but usually DS won't have it. He cries and cries if DH tries to rock/snuggle him back to sleep. I have gotten it so that he only nurses about every 4 hours at night, and now that he's used to not nursing everytime, we're trying to have DH go into him if it's not time to nurse, at least for the first 4 hour stretch. Last night was the first night of trying it in earnest, and DS cried until he hit the 4 hr mark at which point I went in and nursed him. DH said DS would fall asleep but not stay asleep when he put him in the crib.

So I don't have any advice here. We're going to try to gradually increase the time he can go at night between nursing (he's done 6 or 7 hours before, so 4 hours is not too long) while at the same time following that up with having DH take over more of the nighttime parenting. Hopefully, eventually he'll only wake up to eat (1-2x/night), which would be AMAZING.

[LilyRN]

I hear you. DS is 10 mo old, and we are in a similar situation. He was an awesome sleeper from birth until around 6 months, usually around 5-6 hours at a stretch, sometimes even up to 8. Around 6 months we hit teething, and he was literally up every 20 minutes all.night.long. I have no idea what would have happened if I didn't have help from DH. We have hit a break in teething, and I think maybe he has just gotten in the habit of waking up so often. He is generally up 8-10 times a night now, and he HAS to nurse back to sleep. I am really wondering if he really does need the food at night, since he is so distractible during the day. We are out of town right now, but when we get home we are planning to start night-weaning somewhat.

What I plan to do is only nurse him a maximum of every 30 minutes (since that is usually the shortest period he sleeps). If he wakes up before then, we will rock him, pace with him, pat him, cuddle, etc. until the 30 minutes is up. We'll do that until he can handle it okay, then maybe go to 1 hour, 1h30m, etc. I don't mind getting up 2-3 times a night, so we will probably stop (for now) once we get him to 3-4 hours, but we'll see. I am planning to take it slow, so it could take a few months to get there, but I feel like it's better to know that he's not truly hungry.

Good luck!