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A tattooed kid...WWYD? - Page 5

post #81 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

So if a 17 year old walks into a tattoo parlor and piercing studio and says "I want to get my nose pierced", she should be turned away because of an arbitrary age? Why is 18 so magical? A 17 year old can consent just fine and know exactly what they are getting into. Bodily integrity goes both ways. I won't force DD to get any sort of modification, but I wouldn't deny it either because it is in fact her body and her choice, whether she's 7, 17, or 57.


Sometimes, you just have to pick a line, and stand on it.  

 

Why is the driving age 16 in so many places?  While it's obvious that most 6 yo are neither physically capable nor emotionally mature enough to handle the responsibility of driving, there are probably plenty of 15 yo who would do just fine.  On the other end of things, most 26 yo are both tall and strong enough to handle a car as well as emotionally mature enough to be responsible, but there are also 17 yo who are not really ready to start driving.  So why 16?  The answer really is plain and simply that you have to pick something.

 

No there isn't anything particularly magical about 18.  There isn't some huge difference between a 17 yo an 18 yo and a 19yo.  A number needed to be picked.  A line needed to be drawn.

 

Except we aren't talking about driving a car, or anything that requires certain abilities to be done safely. We are talking about piercings and tattoos. Why should the government even have that line? There is nothing about it that affect the rest of society. Having a nose pierced doesn't means someone can do something stupid and kill a whole bunch of people. It means they have a hole in the nose that isn't put there naturally. Heck, why have an older age for piercings and tattoos than for driving? Why not make the age 80 across the board, that way only those with extensive life experience will get these privileges.
 

post #82 of 153


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

So if a 17 year old walks into a tattoo parlor and piercing studio and says "I want to get my nose pierced", she should be turned away because of an arbitrary age? Why is 18 so magical? A 17 year old can consent just fine and know exactly what they are getting into. Bodily integrity goes both ways. I won't force DD to get any sort of modification, but I wouldn't deny it either because it is in fact her body and her choice, whether she's 7, 17, or 57.


Sometimes, you just have to pick a line, and stand on it.  

 

Why is the driving age 16 in so many places?  While it's obvious that most 6 yo are neither physically capable nor emotionally mature enough to handle the responsibility of driving, there are probably plenty of 15 yo who would do just fine.  On the other end of things, most 26 yo are both tall and strong enough to handle a car as well as emotionally mature enough to be responsible, but there are also 17 yo who are not really ready to start driving.  So why 16?  The answer really is plain and simply that you have to pick something.

 

No there isn't anything particularly magical about 18.  There isn't some huge difference between a 17 yo an 18 yo and a 19yo.  A number needed to be picked.  A line needed to be drawn.

 

Except we aren't talking about driving a car, or anything that requires certain abilities to be done safely. We are talking about piercings and tattoos. Why should the government even have that line? There is nothing about it that affect the rest of society. Having a nose pierced doesn't means someone can do something stupid and kill a whole bunch of people. It means they have a hole in the nose that isn't put there naturally. Heck, why have an older age for piercings and tattoos than for driving? Why not make the age 80 across the board, that way only those with extensive life experience will get these privileges.
 



I have to say, while I don't agree with the idea of tattooing a child, your argument makes a lot of sense.

post #83 of 153
Why should the government even have a line? Because 7 year olds need to be protected from irresponsible parents.
post #84 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post

Why should the government even have a line? Because 7 year olds need to be protected from irresponsible parents.


well, right.  but what if the line was the same for everything.  18 - you can do whatever you want.  I'v always felt if you are old enough to be drafted, you should be able to order a beer if you like.  But here, the drinking age is 21.   

 

 

Even without a law, I think most people are going to see tattooing a 7 year old as irresponsible (I think MDC is an anomily).  But then again, we are allowed to pierce babies ears :(

post #85 of 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post

Why should the government even have a line? Because 7 year olds need to be protected from irresponsible parents.

 

Still doesn't cut it. Parents do irresponsible things all the time that are perfectly legal that could very easily have long term effects on their child.

post #86 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post

Why should the government even have a line? Because 7 year olds need to be protected from irresponsible parents.


well, right.  but what if the line was the same for everything.  18 - you can do whatever you want.  I'v always felt if you are old enough to be drafted, you should be able to order a beer if you like.  But here, the drinking age is 21.   

 

 

Even without a law, I think most people are going to see tattooing a 7 year old as irresponsible (I think MDC is an anomily).  But then again, we are allowed to pierce babies ears :(


I agree with you in both cases. The drinking age should be 18 and MDC is an anomily in many cases, like the one being debated here.

post #87 of 153
post #88 of 153

Just picking nits:

Quote:

 

Even without a law, I think most people are going to see tattooing a 7 year old as irresponsible (I think MDC is an anomily).

 

Well...your statement implies people here on this thread at MDC think tattooing a 7 year old is responsible.  I don't believe anyone here has said or implied that.  I think most people at the very least objected to the idea, many think it is stupid.  Where the disagreement is is how or to what degree should the OP respond.  Her question in the title is 'what would you do?'  People have responded. I think what some are objecting to is that not everyone is as willing to call CPS on this guy as other are. 

 

 

Quote:
Except we aren't talking about driving a car, or anything that requires certain abilities to be done safely. We are talking about piercings and tattoos.

 

The larger issue, and what driving a car and getting a tattoo have in common, is decision making.  Not just physical capabilities.  Wise decisions.

post #89 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post

saw this just now -

 

http://www.lamebook.com/the-art-of-motherhood/motherart1/



Did you read the caption under the picture. o.o

post #90 of 153

SO what if your seven year old comes home and says "I want to be vaccinated.  I have read it prevents lots of diseases.  I am angry you didn't vaccinate me."?  Its their body.  RIGHT?

post #91 of 153

At this point, I wouldn't do anything, because it seems more likely to me that he was messing with people rather than serious. Especially as a training tattoo artist, I would think it's more likely to be a fake, possibly even using the transfer paper I've seen tattoo artists use to map out complicated designs before they tattoo them. Those do seem to last moreso than kiddie temporary tattoo things and yet, they don't involve needles, do fade, and are not a danger to children. I can much more easily see "Hey lookit the tattoo I gave my kid!" "You gave your SEVEN year old a real tattoo?!?" "Ha! Yeah, sure, of course, why not?! [Sarcasm, easily misread]

 

My in laws thought I had a rose tattoo on my foot for 5 years! They rarely saw me barefoot and I had had a sharpie tattoo done by DH twice when they saw me in beach-wear. I never thought about it, since the two incidents were years apart, and I'm sure the two sharpie tats were different too, but it's not like they were comparing photos. I didn't know til MIL asked me what I would do to "cover the tattoo" in wedding shoes that would show that part of my feet. Quite funny. 

 

If you knew for a fact that he did it, I would probably warn him that it may be illegal and that you are supposed to report it as a mandated reporter, and I would inquire to your higher ups if it is reportable. 

 

post #92 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommaof3boz View Post

SO what if your seven year old comes home and says "I want to be vaccinated.  I have read it prevents lots of diseases.  I am angry you didn't vaccinate me."?  Its their body.  RIGHT?


Absolutely, YES.  

 

If my child is old enough to understand the benefits and risks of doing something to their own body (and I think that 7 is plenty old to understand the basics of this decision), then by all means they should be allowed to make that decision.  I would be very bummed if they asked to be vaccinated, and we would certainly have a long discussion about it to make sure they were fully informed, but at that point in their life- yes.  Their decision.  (And just to be clear on my own stance- no, we don't vax.)

post #93 of 153

Eighteen is the age that our society has determined to be the age of enough maturity to function as an independent individual - the age of being legally responsible for your behavior and well being.  I didn't decide the law and I could argue the merits of it verses another age but that's not really the issue to me.  The age is legally established. 

 

My bottom line is that I am not willing to assume responsibility for the bodily modification of another.  I don't think a parent has the right to make that decision for another.  I don't think proxy consent should ever be accepted for a non medical cosmetic procedure for another.

 

I would love to hear feedback on the questions I asked.  I'll repeat them again: 

 

What would you think if a 7 year old child walked into a tattoo studio and requested to be tattooed and the artist did it?  Would you report the artist/studio?  Why?  (and let's take the financial motivation out of it in an effort to equalize the situation and say that the kid pulled 3 pennies out of his pocket for the tattoo and the artist did it for him.

 

What do you think of a parent doing it?  Is there any difference between the studio and the parent?  If so, what?

 

 

 

post #94 of 153

IF he actually tattooed his 7 year old I think it was stupid and unethical (partly because people suck in the beginning and it takes a while for their tattoos to age in any other way but awful) but I wouldn't do anything about it unless I strongly suspected it was part of a larger abuse.  

 

On a funny side note my dh got his first tattoo at 12.  So for those contemplating what children would choose to get tattooed...he has the Thundercats logo on his lower leg.  He's in the process of blacking out most of his body but I begged him to keep the Thundercats, there's just something really sweet and innocent about it.

post #95 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by rere View Post

Actually it was the father who said he gave his son a tattoo and was showing pics of it.But maybe he was just messing with people??

 

But my question is,if you knew it to be true...WWYD?


well i am assuming (i havent read all the replies) that the 7 year old would have to consent to this or be strapped in. i would question the child first if it hurt or not. 

 

dunno. if 'my' 7 year old wanted a tattoo and was willing to sit thru the pain i would let her. however due to legalities i wouldnt allow it. but if it wasnt illegal i would allow it. because i 'know' my child. and she has had a connection with a certain design she has used since she could use a pencil. if she did want a tattoo i'd know exactly which one she'd want. and i'd get a matching one like hers on mine. 

 

but its because she is 'my' child and i know her. THAT makes all the difference. she is a child who KNOWS her mind. who knew she wanted her ears pierced at 3 years old. i still made her wait a bit. she cried her first hole. she took a few moments, recovered and then was ready for her next ear. its been 5 years and she has never ever regretted her ears being pierced.

 

having a child like her i would look at her conviction of the statement. not the age. 

 

in this case as a mandated reporter i might have to report it or lose my job. if i wasnt a mandated reporter i'd compliment the child for being able to sit thru the pain. 

post #96 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

The larger issue, and what driving a car and getting a tattoo have in common, is decision making.  Not just physical capabilities.  Wise decisions.


 

But there is a huge difference between getting a tattoo and driving a car. An unwise decision behind the wheel of a car, turns the car into a 4 ton weapon. A tattoo doesn't have the same dangers.

post #97 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer View Post

My bottom line is that I am not willing to assume responsibility for the bodily modification of another.  I don't think a parent has the right to make that decision for another.

 

 



And when a parent refuses to allow something, that is exactly what they are doing. They are making that decision for another person. Why is it not ok for a parent to decide their child should get a tattoo, but perfectly ok for them to decide their child shouldn't get a tattoo?

post #98 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by rere View Post

Actually it was the father who said he gave his son a tattoo and was showing pics of it.But maybe he was just messing with people??

 

But my question is,if you knew it to be true...WWYD?


well i am assuming (i havent read all the replies) that the 7 year old would have to consent to this or be strapped in. i would question the child first if it hurt or not. 

 

dunno. if 'my' 7 year old wanted a tattoo and was willing to sit thru the pain i would let her. however due to legalities i wouldnt allow it. but if it wasnt illegal i would allow it. because i 'know' my child. and she has had a connection with a certain design she has used since she could use a pencil. if she did want a tattoo i'd know exactly which one she'd want. and i'd get a matching one like hers on mine. 

 

but its because she is 'my' child and i know her. THAT makes all the difference. she is a child who KNOWS her mind. who knew she wanted her ears pierced at 3 years old. i still made her wait a bit. she cried her first hole. she took a few moments, recovered and then was ready for her next ear. its been 5 years and she has never ever regretted her ears being pierced.

 

having a child like her i would look at her conviction of the statement. not the age. 

 

in this case as a mandated reporter i might have to report it or lose my job. if i wasnt a mandated reporter i'd compliment the child for being able to sit thru the pain. 


 

Even though you have complete confidence that your DD would change her mind, she is still going to keep growing.  Any tattoo placed on a 7 yo is going to be stretch out completely by the time the child is a teen.  So, even if the child truly was capable of fully grasping the implications of this type of permanent body modification, they just aren't physically ready for it.

post #99 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer View Post

My bottom line is that I am not willing to assume responsibility for the bodily modification of another.  I don't think a parent has the right to make that decision for another.

 

 



And when a parent refuses to allow something, that is exactly what they are doing. They are making that decision for another person. Why is it not ok for a parent to decide their child should get a tattoo, but perfectly ok for them to decide their child shouldn't get a tattoo?



The difference is that when a parent says "no" to some thing like a tattoo, they aren't say "forever."   The child merely has to wait a few years.  If a parent says "yes" to a tattoo the child is then stuck with it forever.  "No" is not a permanent, "yes" is permanent.

post #100 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer View Post

My bottom line is that I am not willing to assume responsibility for the bodily modification of another.  I don't think a parent has the right to make that decision for another.

 

 



And when a parent refuses to allow something, that is exactly what they are doing. They are making that decision for another person. Why is it not ok for a parent to decide their child should get a tattoo, but perfectly ok for them to decide their child shouldn't get a tattoo?

The difference of opinion we seem to have is that I think there is merit to the legal age and you don't.  I do not think that any person who needs to get the consent of another person should be making permanant bodily modifications to themselves. Just because a child wants something, and even wants it in sincere earnest, does not mean that they should be given it.  Why?  Because children (in general) do not have the impulse control or the ability to comprehend long term effects of decisions.  I do not have the right to alter another's body.  If they cannot alter their body on their own (because of rules places upon age limits of piercing and tattooing by the larger society) then I am not going to be a partner to it.  I will not be a partner to something that has NO impact upon my body that has a full impact upon another's body.  It comes down to "His body, His choice" (or Her).  My children will never come back to me and ask me what I was thinking when I allowed them to get tattooed or pierced.

 

I still want someone to tell me if they would report a tattoo studio that tattooed a 7 year old. 

 

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