Humour me...sleep questions

[MaybeJ]

I know all babies are different.  I'm not concerned with how Naomi is sleeping at night, I'm just curious about how much sleep in total other babies around her age are getting.

What time at night would you say baby goes to sleep?  And what time does baby get up for the day?  How is baby sleeping throughout the day?

I've been stressing about things lately.  I feel like Naomi is always tired and I worry this is affecting her nursing.  But maybe I'm over thinking things.  I felt okay about everything until we went away for 4 days over New Years.  Our routine was different there and it was actually nice and I enjoyed the extra hands.  She wasn't as fussy throughout the day.  Now that we're back home, I feel like everything I was doing before was wrong.  I feel like we're back to having more time where she's either dozing or so tired (cranky) that I'm trying to get her to sleep during the day....it makes me feel like a bad mom. 

Tonight for instance, Naomi has been sleeping in the living room with us since 7pm.  It's now 8:45pm and she's still asleep even with the noise and distraction.  She NEVER sleeps this long during the day.  It's always cat naps and then fussiness with some periods of happy play with mom or dad.  And 3 times today while nursing she seemed to not nurse for very long (only 5 minutes).  And she only nurses when she wakes up feeling somewhat rested.  I've never been able to nurse her to sleep during the day.    She screams if I try to nurse her when she is too tired.

Should I be putting her to bed at 7pm if she's ready to sleep then?  Any advice on how to get her to nap a little longer so that she might be more rested?  Just give it time?

Nights are fine.  Once we both are in bed (she's in a co-sleeper attached the bed) she generally sleeps for 3 hour stretches and lately has had some welcome 4 and 5 hour stretches.  She still throws some 2 hour stretches in there to keep me on my toes.  She falls right back asleep after nursing and I can live with the amount of sleep I'm getting.  We tend to stay in bed for 10-12 hours in total (maybe more for me than her?)

I just feel a little sad that she seems to be so tired and fussy during the day.  And the short nursing sessions worry me.

[brokentail]

Maggie Is in her co-sleeper @ about midnight, wakes anywhere from 2-5 hours and is up for the day at about 11. She does take a lot of little and big naps throughout the day, she is cranky too. She is also teething so maybe that's why she's cranky. I wake up for work at 7:45 my husband stays in bed til 11 when I get home at 1, i nurse her in bed then she naps then takes another nap anywhere during 5-9. Shes actually asleep on me now at 11:30 pm I will have to wake her to put her to bed. I Feel like she's getting poor quality sleep.

[Monarchgrrl]

I don't have any advice because I have no idea what I'm doing. But I can tell you about DD's sleep if it helps.

DD is 10 weeks old and still sleeps a LOT during the day. Sometimes I worry why she's so tired all the time. She sleeps a lot but it's not long naps but lots of short ones, with one long one sometime during the day. She always sleeps with lots of noise around, even at night she sleeps with a sound machine. Right now it's 8:30pm and she's asleep in the swing in the living room with the tv on (not facing her) and DW and I on our laptops and talking loudly. We put her down for bed at 9pm. We've tried earlier but it's like she knows the time because if it's at all before 9pm she will NOT stay asleep and will wake up immediately after putting her down. She wakes up usually every 4 hours at night to eat, then goes right back to sleep. She has to be swaddled, too. She coslept with us for a month but she would wake so often. She sleeps so much better in her room in her pack n play. We planned to cosleep so we didn't even buy a crib. :lol

During the day she will get up for good between 7-8am. She usually has a long nap soon after though. Usually from 9-11, so I think she's usually not actually done sleeping for the night at 8am. During the day she eats every two hours for about 10-20 minutes and about every other feeding she will fall right to sleep for a nap. And after every other feeding she will stay up to play and be awake. But she usually only stays awake for an hour (that's her MAX) and then gets fussy and wants to sleep. We usually hold her or wear her (or sit her in her swing sometimes) for naps during the day. She only sleeps in the pack n play and gets swaddled at night. Tightly wrapping her arms down (but not truly swaddling) helps her sleep for naps longer during the day. I've also noticed that the more she sleeps during the day, the longer stretches she will sleep at night. She's twice now slept 7.5 hours straight! If she is restless all day or is overstimulated and doesn't sleep much then she will wake every 2.5 hours at night.

[Melly24]

Beth, Sophia's sleeping sounds just like my DD's when she was little. She slept heaps during the day, and her max time awake was 1 hour right up until she was 5 months old. Then she could go two hours without a nap. When she was wee, probably about 18 - 20 hours of her day was spent sleeping, until about 3 months old.

Amanda, Naomi's sleep sounds just like DS. He sleeps great a night. Really great, actually. Has done since he was born and I'm so thankful for that! He goes down for the night anywhere between 9 - 10.30pm and wakes anywhere between 2 - 5am to nurse, then straight back to sleep til 8ish. 

Then we spend the day with a fussy baby trying to get him to take a nap, which finally works at about midday. He'll sleep for a couple of hours if I'm lucky, then he'll be awake with short 15 minute cat naps on me or in his bouncy chair until bedtime.

I think it's so easy to start over thinking infant sleep. I used to worry about how much DD slept, and then after the 4 month sleep regression how much she didnt! The main things I've learnt are;

- Follow their cues

- You cant force a baby who is not ready for sleep to sleep

- Never wake a sleeping baby (except jaundiced, low birth weight or sick babies) 

- Just when you think you've got it all figured out, they'll change it on you!

[BirthIsAwesome]

I don't have any advice, just <hugs> and I'll share my son's "schedule" below (note that this is not a schedule I imposed, simply the routine that he fell into naturally :) )

This is typical, but sometimes he takes his longer nap in the morning...it just depends on the day.

Malachi wakes up around 6am when Dh gets up to get ready for work, I nurse him and then he sleeps till 9 which I consider our "waking up for good" time. We nurse, and then he generally is awake for an hour. Then he takes a short nap from 10ish-11ish and nurses when he wakes up. Then he has a two hour stretch of "wake time", and I nurse him to sleep around 1pm for his long nap which usually lasts 3 hours. By 4pm he is up and hungry, so we nurse and then play for 2 hours. At six he nurses and then falls asleep for his second short nap, from 6-7pm. By then Dh is home and he plays with the baby while I make supper. Malachi is usually awake and hanging out with us till 9:30pm or so, when I change his last diaper for the night, change him into a nightgown or sleeper, nurse him, and then we all go to sleep together for the night by 10. A couple nights a week I put him in the co-sleeper for his first night sleep stretch so hubby and I can have "our" time, which Malachi has never objected to, but then he comes back into our bed for the rest of the night. He generally wakes up twice between 10pm and 6am to "dream feed". 

[MaybeJ]

Thank you so much to everyone for sharing!!  I do feel quite a bit better.  I just feel like Naomi is so tired all the time and I was wondering if that was "normal".  She does seem to get sleepy during the day after only being awake for an hour or 1.5 hours....2 hours would be the max!  I do think she would benefit from a longer nap during the day.  I am going to try to swaddle her to see if she'll nap longer, but if not, I'll just keep rocking her to sleep all day and not worry about it.   

[miso_soup]

Lol! Me neither! But here is Dylan's basic 'routine', one that has just kind of emerged naturally over the last few weeks.

I feel very fortunate that Dylan sleeps through the night, and has done since he was about 2 months old. As a result, he usually wakes anywhere between 5:30 and 7:00 in the morning, super-hungry! Once he's eaten, he usually drops back to sleep for another 90 minutes or so - which is great, because it gives me chance to get myself ready for the day and eat breakfast, etc.

Amanda, Dylan is kind of like Naomi during the day though - he really doesn't take any substantial naps. Probably 2 or 3 'cat naps' of around 20 or 30 minutes or so - a hour MAX (and that's if I'm lucky). I too kind of wish he would take a longer nap, because by around 5pm he's pretty over-tired and probably over-stimulated, and gets a bit fussy. I haven't actually tried putting him in his crib for a nap, though - I usually just put him in his pack 'n play downstairs, or in his swing. So it's possible that he might sleep better during the day if he's upstairs where it's quiet. I do swaddle Dylan at night (I think this is one of the reasons that he sleeps so well), but I'm reluctant to do so during the day. I'm not entirely sure why! Does anyone else swaddle for naps?

So anyway, he generally gets a little fussy between 5 and 7, so myself and DH take turns playing with him and holding him to distract him! We also give him a bath during this time, because he LOVES baths, and sometimes this can kick him out of his grouchy mood. Then at around 8:30 or so, we read him a story and put him down for the night. He's a GREAT sleeper, and hardly ever fusses at bedtime - he just lies there looking around and then drops off about half an hour later. He'll generally sleep from 9pm straight through until 6am or so, which is AMAZING to me, as I just naturally expected that he would still be waking to eat until he was at least 6 months old or something (that's what everyone told me, anyway). 

So that's our 'routine', so to speak. I too would be interested in tips on how to master the daytime nap!

Originally Posted by Monarchgrrl 

I don't have any advice because I have no idea what I'm doing.

[MaybeJ]

I meant to comment on your comment too, Monarchgrrl!  LOL - I think I spend way too much time obsessing about everything, particularly about how I feel like I have no idea.  Ha!

miso soup - I don't swaddle Naomi at night to sleep.  We only swaddle when she's so tired/fussy that she becomes inconsolable.  A swaddle seems to calm her down quickly.  I've just heard the suggestion of swaddling during the day to help them sleep longer stretches.  I have no idea if it would work or become counterproductive.

Naomi seems to do the majority of her nursing at night, though it doesn't keep her awake between feedings.  I wonder if I should try swaddling her at night....maybe nursing more during the day would be good?

And like Melly's #4 point, I also feel like as soon as I figure something out (if I figure anything out), what works is likely to change anyway!  (All good advice, btw, Melly)

I think I'm in good company.

[kallyn]

I have no idea what I'm doing either but here is how Lilah sleeps. 

She usually wakes up for the day at 7:30.  Then all day long she will stay awake for 1-2 hours max and then get sleepy/cranky and take a nap.  She used to fall asleep nursing but almost never does that anymore - she prefers to be walked around.  Naps are anywhere from 30 min to 2 hours.  If I set her down they're always shorter, she'll only go down for 2 hours if she's on me.  Swaddling helps her sleep a little longer by herself if I need to get something done.  She's almost never stayed awake longer than 2 hours at a time.  She falls asleep for the night usually between 8 and 10 and spends the evening on me on the couch until I take her into bed with me around 10:30.  If she falls asleep too early (before 8) she'll usually wake up around 10 and stay awake for about 30 min before going to sleep for the night.  She never really wakes at night, just rustles around enough to wake me up and then nurses side-lying in her sleep.  She currently eats about twice overnight.  Up at 7:30, repeat.  :)

[Melly24]

Sounds like you know exactly what you're doing, which is following her cues and responding to her needs.  I'd love Ben to have formed his own semi-predictable routine by now (DD had by his age...). He's such a complex wee guy

[sheashea]

Originally Posted by Melly24 

I think it's so easy to start over thinking infant sleep. I used to worry about how much DD slept, and then after the 4 month sleep regression how much she didnt! The main things I've learnt are;

- Follow their cues

- You cant force a baby who is not ready for sleep to sleep

- Never wake a sleeping baby (except jaundiced, low birth weight or sick babies) 

- Just when you think you've got it all figured out, they'll change it on you!

I totally agree with Melly's statement.  Awesome advice.  Having had two very different babies, I have started to understand that sleep patterns are largely connected to the baby's personality and temperament, not whether parents are using the "right" or "wrong" techniques.  

Melly, my DS (now 2.5) sounds exactly like Ben.  Other than the fact that we went through some serious sleep regressions at 4 and 9 months where he was up to nurse far more often, he has always been a great night sleeper and not much of a napper during the day. He completely dropped his afternoon nap at about two. Although he will still nap on some days, mostly in the car, an afternoon nap can definitely not be relied upon. When he was a baby,  I felt like a one trick pony because nursing him was the only way I could get him to sleep, to comfort him, and of course to deal with hunger.  Well, maybe a two-trick pony because he would also nap in the carrier. 

DD Niamh is an amazing sleeper.  She takes long naps during the day and can actually be soothed to sleep by rocking and put down in a bassinet (wonder of wonders!) so I can get something done. She also sleeps well at night with the exception of over stimulating days or growth-spurts.  We are still happily co-sleeping with her in the bed, although I plan to start having her spend the first part of the night in the crib, which is immediately beside the bed.  This will allow DH and I to have some time together downstairs in the evening.  Wish me luck!