Why not give Tylenol/Motrin?

[doglver77]

I'll admit, before I joined this forum I was a pretty hardcore Tylenol/Motrin giver   But, now that I've been perusing, I see that there seems to be some pretty strong arguments against giving it, which I honestly was never even aware of. So, I'm trying to educate myself -- why do you not give Tylenol/Motrin? Are there any circumstances in which you would give it? What are the benefits to not giving it? Thank you in advance! I already know I won't be reaching for it like I've been doing.

[Panserbjorne]

I can't think of a reason I'd give it.  There's too many other things I can use that are very effective for pain/inflammation and I don't ever look to reduce fevers.  There are many reasons why not to use it, but the biggest for me is that it suppresses the body's glutathione, which is needed most during illness. 

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by doglver77 

I'll admit, before I joined this forum I was a pretty hardcore Tylenol/Motrin giver   But, now that I've been perusing, I see that there seems to be some pretty strong arguments against giving it, which I honestly was never even aware of. So, I'm trying to educate myself -- why do you not give Tylenol/Motrin? Are there any circumstances in which you would give it? What are the benefits to not giving it? Thank you in advance! I already know I won't be reaching for it like I've been doing.

I'm one who used to give it without much thought, and now we don't have tylenol in the house and I try to give the ibuprofen as rarely as possible--someday I hope to learn enough to not use it at all.

I used to not think much about what's involved when we consume something non-food.  It uses up nutrients to metabolize it--I have to admit, I used to just assume it was almost a magical, automatic process that happened.  But it's physical, our bodies use vitamins and minerals and chemicals our bodies have made to get this stuff out.  I don't want to be cavalier about depleting my kids' nutrients, they have a lot of other things going on that they could be using those for instead.  And using up nutrients puts stresses elsewhere, slowing down something else that's probably important.  When the kids are sick is particularly _not_ when I want to add stresses elsewhere, yk?  For tylenol in particular, the glutathione issue is most important to me, but more and more, I'm finding other stuff that just makes pharmaceuticals irrelevant.

I think the hardest part of the transition is figuring out what to do instead.  It's not a choice between doing something (tylenol) or doing nothing, it's figuring out what other things will achieve a similar goal.  Well--my goal isn't to lower fevers anymore, but most parents would say that they just want their kids to get well as quickly and easily as possible.  So figuring out other supportive stuff that helps the kids (or ourselves) get better faster will naturally result in a shorter time sick and often lower fevers. 

Some kids get better faster if their fevers aren't medicated.  I stopped long enough ago that I don't know if that's the case for my kids, but I do know that, in my son, _getting_ a fever is a good thing.  When he was little, he got sick a lot and didn't run fevers, and his immune system was a lot more sluggish than a couple years down the road, when he now runs fevers. 

Right now, I don't have enough good things in my toolbox for injuries beyond the immediate fall/bruise/cry/go play scenario.  Homeopathic arnica helps with that stuff, but I didn't know what to do recently when I pulled a muscle and over the course of a couple days, it started seriously throbbing.  I took a lot of ibuprofen to help the inflammation, and I think it helped, but I bet there's another way.

For illness, I'm really not comfortable giving either when the kids, or even we as adults, are sick.  But I've gotten enough ideas that help us through illnesses so that we're not miserable, it doesn't drag out forever--it's manageable, and often seems quicker and easier than other peoples' experiences. 

[ttcintexas]

PB--Your input in this forum is so wonderful. You are a fabulous resource to us mamas looking to take care of ourselves and our kiddos. I am wondering what you do for a child with a headache. I do not use Motrin to reduce fevers, but there have been a few times lately where my children have been miserable with headaches associated with some illness (cold? flu?) to the point where I have given them some Motrin--this morning for my son, in fact. This is rare, but I would really like an alternative. I do work with a homeopath (via phone many states away from me), but cannot call her for every little illness/headache (too expensive and not realistic). So, I guess my question is do you have a recommendation for a way to treat a headache or similar painful symptom? I know that natural treatments are usually not that general, but while I am learning to better treat my family naturally...is there an easy way to treat for headaches/pain. Thanks.

[Panserbjorne]

for headaches, cell salts can do a fabulous job and that's probably my first go-to.  Mag phos is the biggie, but kali phos can help a lot as well.  It's basically learning the indications and matching them up, and with the salts there's only 12 to learn!  Very user friendly.  Most of my headaches are calc phos (but I'm a calcy person) whereas someone else might be nat mur.  It's often easiest to start out with 5 phos as that covers most of your bases.  Nat mur is the wild card!

Other than that, magnesium is excellent.  Naturalcalm is lovely to drink and can help headaches immensely.  I love that one of the bigger biochemic/homeopathic indications for magnesium is that the situation is better for heat, and naturalcalm is meant to be taken warm.

Homeopathy also excels here.  Having a grip on a few first aid remedies can generally get you though.  Headaches will often come with specific enough symptoms to find a good fit (is it back, front, right sided, left sided, throbbing, aching, like a nail being hammered in etc.)  You don't have to be dead on to get relief.

There is a branch of clinical homeopathy that isn't widely used by laypeople, but should be called drainage remedies.  I have found that drainage remedies that target and support the liver can be amazing for headaches.

Acupressure is also fairly easy to learn in terms of basic point and can be invaluable for things like this.

Last but not least...having a chiropractor is a blessing!  The cranials do tend to shift during illness as a result of dural tension.  Having a chiro that does CST or myofascial release can be invaluable and it let's the remedies go deeper IME.

There are so many other things you can do...but that's my basic go to list!

And Tanya-arnica, bryonia ruta and rhus tox are all good best for pulled muscles homeopathically.  Mag phos/calc fluor cell salts taken acutely can also be a huge blessing and never forget the castor oil pack during the inflammatory stage!

[tanyalynn]

And Tanya-arnica, bryonia ruta and rhus tox are all good best for pulled muscles homeopathically.  Mag phos/calc fluor cell salts taken acutely can also be a huge blessing and never forget the castor oil pack during the inflammatory stage!

Thank you, and the bold?  Doh, that's why I got the stuff to make one, and I totally forgot about it!

Taking notes on the headache stuff myself, DD is prone though not during illnesses, another area I need to learn more.  Is there a place to read about drainage remedies?  Or would I really need to take a class or something because I know her liver could use a bit more support.  Thanks for the question, ttcintexas!

[Panserbjorne]

ahhh, the drainage.  There are some good books out there, but none really deal with drainage combos that I know of.  Those are going to be far easier for mamas.  I use seroyal/UNDA and bestmade.  the chelidonium plex by seroyal knocks out my headaches amazingly well.  It's not "for headaches" it's just for liver support and my headaches (migraines, really) are liver based.  I use this until I can get my hands on a good remedy, but many times I can just carry on with this and it does it all.

[ASusan]

PB - or anyone else who might know - is there a good online resource to read about getting rid of headaches naturally? Using cell salts, homeopathy, liver support...someplace(s) where this is all explained in a little depth?

To the op - DS (3 yrs) has never had Tylenol, and we've let every fever he's had run it's course. He's been easy, though, in the pain department. For example, we never knew when he was teething. Once, I recall looking in his mouth and seeing 4 new teeth.

This past summer, I was able to resolve a significant toe/foot stubbing with arnica gel that I applied, and an arnica liquid that I took orally. This was a case where, in the past, I most certainly would have turned to Motrin/ibuprofen and taken it over several days. But, the arnica worked a miracle, as far as I'm concerned. The toes were completely swollen and unbendable and almost black the day after it happened, and 2 days later, I spent 2 solid days on my feet walking around NYC. No pain, no swelling, no drugs. It was incredible.

However, headaches are one thing I still grab ibuprofen for (and have 3 times in the past 2 weeks, I'm not proud to admit). It just seems to *work*, and I am able to get on with my day after I take it. I'm not often certain *why* I have the headache, or what alternative treatment to use, and I feel like I would be randomly selecting something to try to get rid of it.

[Panserbjorne]

Sadly there's nowhere that I know of that has all that kind of information compiled.    If you google cell salts you will get a LOT of free online information, so no worries there.  Some sites are better than others, but the basic info is out there.

Drainage-there's nothing that I know of.  I'm always suprised by that, but there you go.  You can check out the UNDA numbers, but there's no where online that has published info beyond the real basic stuff as far as I know. 

Homeopathy, you can always search homeopathy + headaches.  You'll get more than you wanted, but you'll get information.  A good, basic at home prescribing book would be your best bet.  Failing that www.abchomeopathy.com is loved by many.  It drives me nuts, but that's not hard to do.

[joanna0707]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

There are many reasons why not to use it, but the biggest for me is that it suppresses the body's glutathione, which is needed most during illness. 

What is glutathione's function during illness? I'd like to learn more about glutathione and it's functions in the body, any good websites you can recommend?

[sunnysandiegan]

I stopped taking Tylenol and Motrin myself before becoming a mother. I cannot recall why I stopped taking Tylenol (second one I stopped), but I stopped taking Motrin/ibuprofen shortly after discovering it because it made me soooo sick to my stomach every single time I took it.

The only reason I know this now is because I had kidney stones this past summer and my DD and I were committed to a Girl Scout camping trip. I was under the care of an Ayurveda practitioner (via email, but I also see her in person...we weren't able to connect in person at that time because she was out of the country) and taking gokshura (Ayurveda herb for kidneys; thank goodness for amazon prime one day $4 shipping!) and drinking warm beer (she's German! LOL). However, I had to drive an hour to the mountains and couldn't be drinking beer. My neighbor gave me some Motrin for the car ride and the camping trip. The pain was pretty darn intense from the stones (I was doubled over in the early stages), but the stomach problems after I took just one Motrin were FAR WORSE!!!

In any case, I just don't use either item. We don't have either one in our house at all. We did have children's tylenol and children's motrin because others bought them for us (baby shower gifts), but they expired and I never replaced them. I actually just tossed out the last half-dozen bottles of OTC meds from our medicine cabinet in December. They had expired in 2003-2007! DH was the one who purchased them and I guess took some of them. I didn't even realize they were in there.

Honestly, our DD is super healthy and hasn't needed much in terms of doctor care nor OTC meds nor prescription meds. I ate super healthy pre- and during and post-pregnancy and I guess that made a big difference for her. I also worked in a holistic health practitioner's office during pregnancy and for nearly a year afterwards (with DD). My benefits included a monthly massage and I'm sure that, along with the serene atmosphere, really helped, too. We feed her pretty well and she doesn't have any health issues. When she does get sick, it is usually mild and short-lived with zero complications. I thank the Universe frequently!!!!

For myself, I have found excellent alternative caregivers locally and call/visit/email one of them before grabbing any OTC meds. In my case, phone calls and emails are free (included). Visits, of course, do have a fee, and I feel it is worth it when needed. I've learned quite a bit along the way for self-care, especially in herbs and certain types of supplements and natural first aid. I've dabbled a bit in flower essences for a few years now. I am just learning about cell salts. I constantly check out books from the library to expand my repertoire. Just today, DH brought me home two books I had "ordered" through the county library system (free). His office is a nice walk to a county library; our home is a nice walk to a city library...gives me access to two systems. (We also have access to a third library system via car.) One book is on the topic of dry eye syndrome, of which my eye doc has told me I have a specific type (I plan to assess this for myself), and the other book is on flower essences.

DH is more traditional and will reach for his go-to OTC meds whenever he wishes. None of us take any prescription meds. I communicate with him openly about all my natural remedies and he supports my decisions for myself and our DD. He even lets me choose and administer natural remedies for him much of the time. I keep my opinions of his OTC choices to myself as much as possible while offering other options. Sometimes he takes me up on my options; sometimes not. The tide has definitely shifted over the years, though. He hasn't even noticed I ditched the long-expired stuff in the medicine cabinet nearly a month ago.

Anyway, the only way I have felt comfortable switching over is because I have found local alternative health providers that I trust. I also like our regular allopathic doctor. Haven't seen her in several years, but she is a family practice doc and we all have her as our PCP. Haven't had the need to see her for awhile, but she is rather progressive for an allopath. In fact, the whole healthcare system she is with is rather progressive for the medical field (UCSD). I've never had a doctor or midwife in that system give me a hard time over my alternative choices. I actually learned a lot of good alternative care tips from them 5-10 years ago. I also had similar experiences with Kaiser, even though they get kind of a bad rap. I actually first learned about Chinese medicine and alternative healthcare from a few Kaiser doctors about 15 years ago. I pretty much feel like I have been led to more natural healthcare for my best interests. Nearly ALL standard medical practices are simply too harsh for me. I feel very fortunate to have met the people I have met along the way.

ETA: It was late when I babbled on above and I never said what we DO for headaches. Most of our headaches are due to dehydration/too much sun/too much heat. Drinking a large glass of plain water and resting in the coolest, darkest room of our house generally cures at least 75% of the headaches in our family. Add some food after the water and resting, and that cures an additional 20% of our headaches. The last 5% are usually from illness and the extra water, rest, food just wasn't enough (it is for most illness-related headaches for us). Sleep is the last cure; not just resting.

Edited by sunnysandiegan - 1/8/11 at 8:35am

[Koalamom]

PB- you mentioned heat was an indicator for magnesium.  What would better for cold be an indicator of?  Calcium?

PS- another no tylenol user here.  The only time when I gave it to my daughter was when she has sucha high fever (105) that I had to give it or get her to the ER.  The tylenol brought it down to a comfortable 102 and I let her ride it out form there.    Now I turn to Vit D when there is the first sign or illness and that usually stops things from getting worse or blows it out of the water.  Also soups from bone broth are a must especially in the winter.

[Panserbjorne]

Bluebird-I can't really say that from a nutritional context.  I was more comparing and contrasting salts/homeopathy/nutrition.  Keynotes of magnesium anywhere you look are "ailments better for heat" so it's just an interesting little correlation energetically for me.  Most teachers will even tell you that the cell salts will work better in warm water.

Sorry I don't have links and websites guys!  Most of what I know I learned in school, in seminars, in workshops, in books while precepting or in the clinic.  I don't tend to check the web for things (not that you shouldn't, just that I don't have that info at my fingertips.)

[Koalamom]

Thanks pb. 

Yeah imagine having years of learning at a few link of your browser.  I bet if Pat were checking this thread she would hook us up.  Hint, hint...

[ttcintexas]

Thank you, PB for all that headache info. What a learning process this all is. Yesterday I reluctantly ended up giving my son two doses of Motrin before reaching my homeopath. He was just so miserable! Luckily I did reach her, and he did get a remedy, and seems to be doing much better today. So much to learn and become comfortable with....

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 

Thanks pb. 

Yeah imagine having years of learning at a few link of your browser.  I bet if Pat were checking this thread she would hook us up.  Hint, hint...

her or Jane...the queens of linkage.