How/Do I tell the mother

[Notyet11]

The question is how/do I tell the mother of two young children that her husband is spanking them, I am almost certain she does not know.  The background is that I am the nanny for this family with two young children.  The mother and I both tend toward the crunchy side and favor gentle discipline. 

She has been out of town this week and the kids have had a rough time coping with that coupled with some other transitions in life.  The youngest who is 2.5 has had some huge tantrums when faced with doing some necessary things and blatantly refused. This behavior is 100% developmentally appropriate and in light of the topsy turvy-ness of her world right now completely understandable.  The father however has taken to spanking her for this behavior.  There were two other instances this week where I am 90% sure this took place as well, for equally absurd things if it makes a difference.  I feel awful that today is the first time I made it clear and that I knew it was happening.  As soon as it happened I went upstairs and took her and said that getting her to give in was not worth it.  The sickening part was that she was so deep into this fit that she had already wet herself before he added to her distress (this behavior in and of itself is quite out of the ordinary.) 

So, at the end of the day it was made pretty clear that the mother does not know he has started spanking the children (the older child was one of the other two incidences-- also this child was having a melt down in an unsafe spot and when I moved him to his bedroom he cowered and covered his face like afraid of being hit.) 

So do I tell her or don't I? And how do you tell someone something like that?  I do not want to be stuck in the middle and I don't want a miserably awkward work situation but it is paramount to me that the children be in a safe place.  If for some reason I am under the wrong impression and she is now on board with this I also do not want to work for them, timing isn't wonderful but I cannot work in that environment.  Aside from the ridiculousness of spanking a kid for crying I am 99.99% sure there isn't any further abuse taking place.

Thank you for any insights you might have into this situation.  I feel really stuck.

[nextcommercial]

Hmm.. I would not tell her.  Or if I did, I'd tell her passive aggressively.  Maybe mention it in passing somehow.  I'm not sure how you can slip that into a conversation.

[starling&diesel]

If I felt safe, I would tell the father that I was uncomfortable knowing that he spanks the children, when the mother doesn't know and wouldn't approve.  I would suggest that he have a discussion with his wife about it, and let me know what their decision is, in order to help me better do my job or decide if I would be staying, being that I don't condone spanking. If I didn't feel safe approaching him, I would take the mom aside and tell her my concerns, using clear language and sticking to what I knew for sure.  What a hard situation.  I'm sorry that you need to deal with this.  

[VisionaryMom]

I would talk to the mom as an employee/employer issue if you usually deal with mom on these things. Tell her that when you took the job that it was with the understanding that they do not spank. Now that you have been in the house when the Dad has spanked the children, you need to know if they have had a change in parenting philosophy so that you'll know how you need to proceed.

[AislinCarys]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

I would talk to the mom as an employee/employer issue if you usually deal with mom on these things. Tell her that when you took the job that it was with the understanding that they do not spank. Now that you have been in the house when the Dad has spanked the children, you need to know if they have had a change in parenting philosophy so that you'll know how you need to proceed.

This. As a former, and hopefully future nanny, I really think it is vital to be upfront with employers, and that they are with you. If you aren't things slowly spiral out of control, and you end on bad terms. I wouldn't be comfortable working with a family that spanks their kids. And I would just be upfront about that. If the mother knows where you stand, you could just say "Well, you know how I feel about spanking. I really love working for your family, but I don't think I can continue if your children get spanked." It is blunt, but it puts the ball in her court, and it isn't telling tales, it is stating how it affects you, and your relationship. Or you could ask if they have changed the way they discipline their kids, reminding her how you feel about the topic.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

I would talk to the mom as an employee/employer issue if you usually deal with mom on these things. Tell her that when you took the job that it was with the understanding that they do not spank. Now that you have been in the house when the Dad has spanked the children, you need to know if they have had a change in parenting philosophy so that you'll know how you need to proceed.

that's what I'd do too.

[hildare]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

I would talk to the mom as an employee/employer issue if you usually deal with mom on these things. Tell her that when you took the job that it was with the understanding that they do not spank. Now that you have been in the house when the Dad has spanked the children, you need to know if they have had a change in parenting philosophy so that you'll know how you need to proceed.

that's what I'd do too.

i agree.. that is the mature/ethical way to respond to it.  use those 'i' statements so it doesn't sound accusatory, but you are only being honest.  it DOES make you uncomfortable and it ISN'T what you signed up for. 

[LROM]

I definitely support this idea of stating it as something you understood they did not do, now apparently they do, and you're uncomfortable with it.  But I'm curious why so many of you are suggesting she only have the conversation with mom?

The scenario I immediately see playing out if she only talks to mom... then mom talks to dad without OP around... is that dad will either deny it or rationalize what happened away from "spanking".  It seems much more honest but also more productive to ask to speak to both of them, since they are both the parents and OP nannies the children that they both parent.  I also think that means if dad says it isn't true, that conversation about when actually he did spank them happens in front of mom.

My further advice to OP would be to just keep being matter of fact about it, not accusatory or horrified, just matter of fact that spanking is happening (if you're absolutely sure it is, which honestly I wasn't clear you were 100% sure) and that that isn't the nanny scenario you understood yourself stepping into.

It may also be helpful to the parents to be specific about the impact that the spanking seems to have on the kids and why you are concerned.  If they seem more fearful, more likely to meltdown after being spanked, etc, it's very important to be specific about that.  Otherwise it just becomes a general conversation about how you're against spanking and misses the chance for them to maybe see how it negatively impacts their kids.

[Notyet11]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts about this, I was really at a loss as to how to handle it.  The biggest concern was the fact that during the last conversation I had with the mother about spanking (which was in a philosophical sense) she was adamantly opposed to it and then while she was away her husband decided to start spanking behind her back so to speak.  It turned out that she definitely does not know about (which was my suspicion) but the father spoke to me about it this morning and I was assured it was a mistake on his part and he would not be doing it again.  He did not specifically ask me not to tell her but it was implied.  I very much trust both of them and we have an excellent relationship so I feel comfortable letting go of the issue for now provided it does not keep happening.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by Notyet11 

the father spoke to me about it this morning and I was assured it was a mistake on his part and he would not be doing it again.  He did not specifically ask me not to tell her but it was implied.  I very much trust both of them and we have an excellent relationship so I feel comfortable letting go of the issue for now provided it does not keep happening.

I'm glad that the father didn't try to rationalize or minimize what he did. In light of that, I would let it go too, although prior to reading this post I would have been on board with you talking to one or both parents about your concerns. 

[hildare]

Originally Posted by Notyet11 

Thank you all so much for your thoughts about this, I was really at a loss as to how to handle it.  The biggest concern was the fact that during the last conversation I had with the mother about spanking (which was in a philosophical sense) she was adamantly opposed to it and then while she was away her husband decided to start spanking behind her back so to speak.  It turned out that she definitely does not know about (which was my suspicion) but the father spoke to me about it this morning and I was assured it was a mistake on his part and he would not be doing it again.  He did not specifically ask me not to tell her but it was implied.  I very much trust both of them and we have an excellent relationship so I feel comfortable letting go of the issue for now provided it does not keep happening.

man, that would make me extremely uncomfortable.  keeping secrets from the mom?  one such as that.. i would just totally freak out if that happened and i was that mom (which i know dh would never do, nor would he not tell me, but STILL).  you might want to consider that it is pretty unfair of dad to put you in that situation and also think about what mom would do if she finds out AND finds out you knew and didn't tell her.  i think it signifies a problem too that dad wouldn't tell her himself.  yikes.
 

[texmati]

wow... I'm suprised at some of the responses. I'm a WOHM with a WAH dad who employs a nanny. So there is quite a bit of opportunity for something like this to happen.  I do not see my nanny at the end of the day, but I do in the morning.  We chat about how he's doing/time he woke up/last bottle etc. I expect her to let me know of anything unusual-- bad tantrum, rash, or when he learned his numbers.

If I found out the nanny was keeping something major or unusual from me she'd be fired in a heartbeat-- even if she was colluding with my husband. It would be easier to find a new nanny than divorce my husband.

[texmati]

And as for how to tell her... just pick up the phone and call her after work today and let her know. also let her know that you value this position and do not want to lose it or cause problems between her and her husband, but just thought that she shoudl know.

[Belia]

Originally Posted by texmati 

If I found out the nanny was keeping something major or unusual from me she'd be fired in a heartbeat-- even if she was colluding with my husband. It would be easier to find a new nanny than divorce my husband.

I usually agree with you on many posts, Tex, but not here.  If the DH has changed his discipline philosophy or has made a mistake, he's responsible for owning up to it with his wife.  He's the one who changed.  Not the nanny.

With your philosophy, Tex, the nanny really can't win.  If she doesn't tell, the mom is mad at her for "keeping secrets."  If she does tell, the dad is mad at her for "tattling."  That fact alone tells me that this is not her issue and really not fair to blame her for any of it.

Let's look at this way more simply.  What's the goal here?  We don't want the kids to be spanked.  Originally, I would say talking to the parents and bringing the spanking out in the open would be the best way to meet that goal.

But in the update, Dad brought it up with the nanny and basically said that it was an aberration and there would be no more spanking.  OP believes him.  Problem solved:  no more spanking.  If it recurs, OP can address it in the future.

And if mom ever tried calling me on "keeping a secret" or whatever, I would just say that I assumed that the parents had been communicating with each other.  After all, the nanny isn't having duplicate conversations with each parent on every single issue.

[texmati]

I see what you are saying-- but at this point the nanny feels like she's keeping a secret from the mom (also her employer). ITA that the dad is ultimately in the wrong and also responsible for this situation and also responsible for telling the mom, but I honestly don't think I'd keep a nanny on if I was the mom in this situation.

But in my book, spanking is more along the lines of abuse than 'change in discipline method' especially if nanny is being asked to keep it a secret-- so that may be coloring my feelings about this.

[PoppyMama]

I don't know.  I would feel like I couldn't trust the nanny if I found out she was keeping this secret and allowing me to wonder why my children were cowering and traumatized.  He spanked a 2 year old when she was so upset she'd wet herself...there will be behaviors that will cause questions.  I think she needs to tell the father he needs to discuss this with his wife.  She might want to avoid leaving until he's taken a parenting or anger management class.  

[mbhf]

Originally Posted by texmati 

wow... I'm suprised at some of the responses. I'm a WOHM with a WAH dad who employs a nanny. So there is quite a bit of opportunity for something like this to happen.  I do not see my nanny at the end of the day, but I do in the morning.  We chat about how he's doing/time he woke up/last bottle etc. I expect her to let me know of anything unusual-- bad tantrum, rash, or when he learned his numbers.

If I found out the nanny was keeping something major or unusual from me she'd be fired in a heartbeat-- even if she was colluding with my husband. It would be easier to find a new nanny than divorce my husband.

He didn't ask the nanny not to tell his wife, he implied that he didn't want her to. But even if he had asked her specifically not to say a word to his wife about it that doesn't mean he didn't intend to tell her himself, it just means that he doesn't particularly want the nanny to tell her. If I was the dh in this situation, I also wouldn't want the nanny to tell my wife, I would want to tell her myself. Regardless, this is an issue between a husband and a wife. You/the mother in this situation could certainly blame the nanny either way, for butting into the marriage or for not telling about the spanking, but it would still be an issue between the husband and the wife, not something firing the nanny would fix. It is not the nanny's job to keep both parents informed about the other parent's actions, and I can't think that many employers would want that. The nanny and the father have spoken. She has been assured it will not happen again. She is still more than welcome to quit if she feels uncomfortable. I do not think bringing it up with the mother will do anyone (kids included) any good.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by texmati 
If I found out the nanny was keeping something major or unusual from me she'd be fired in a heartbeat-- even if she was colluding with my husband. 

I agree.

I'm also very aware that the dad is following the cycle of abusers. 1) Abuse. 2) Promise you've seen the error of your ways and that it won't happen again. 3) Make it clear that silence is best because it will only make the problem worse.

Perhaps the OP totally believes that this was a one-off situation and that the dad is on board, but I'd have a hard time trusting that. He spanked a child who was having a tantrum and was so upset she'd wet herself. That's not an "I'm angry and smacked my kid's bottom a couple of times and now feel terrible." That's a deliberate decision, and the OP is pretty sure (not sure what the question is, which would make a difference) that this was time #3 THIS WEEK while mom was gone. That says to me that either Dad spanks regularly and has now been caught or that Mom is the one who really believes in no spanking, and Dad's just going along when it's easier to do so (i.e. Mom is home to get angry at him). To me, the situation suggests that the OP is going to face the same thing when Mom is out of town again, not that it's truly not going to happen again. If I do something once and feel badly, I don't do it again. I can't imagine that I'd do something to discipline my child 3 times before thinking, "gee, might be cruel."

[sapphire_chan]

OP, I think you should give the dad a time limit before you tell the mom.

OTOH, you could get him to keep good behavior by making it clear that you'll be reporting it ASAP if he does it again. "Mr. Client said he discussed it with you Mrs. Client so I didn't think I needed to bring it up before..."

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

I would talk to the mom as an employee/employer issue if you usually deal with mom on these things. Tell her that when you took the job that it was with the understanding that they do not spank. Now that you have been in the house when the Dad has spanked the children, you need to know if they have had a change in parenting philosophy so that you'll know how you need to proceed.

I agree with this.  I do think it is something that they really need to work out together and that part of it has nothing to do with you.  But you do need to be upfront about your willingness to stay in this type of situation.  If you are worried they will fire you if you if you bring it up though, and especially if you have kids to support, you may need to rethink your position on working in that kind of environment though.  It is really tough to find jobs in many areas and you may not want to risk being out of work for as long as it can take to find one.  It took me six months and close to a hundred applications to get a job in a daycare despite having a degree in education and experience in childcare.

Maybe you could approach it by saying that you noticed that the dad lost his temper so you stepped in to try to diffuse the situation when you noticed him spanking the child since that is something you have noticed them trying to avoid and you hope that was okay.  She may say yes and talk to dad or she may say no and you can use that to discuss where they would like the boundaries to be when you are there. 

Edited by One_Girl - 1/8/11 at 1:32pm