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Isn't it illogical not to vaccinate? - Page 4

post #61 of 69
This is something that you have to decide for your own family. A lot of people decide to do selective vax and there's a subforum here for discussing just that. It is a lot like playing russian roulette like a pp said. There are pros and cons either way you go. I decided that if I did vax selective vax was much better for us. There is even a chart on the CDC site for a 'catch up schedule' you may want to look at. It shows what vaccines a child needs and the spacing between the vaxes. It is meant for people who simply missed a vax but I used it to decide how to selective vax. On the chart it shows that a child needs less vaccines if you wait on certain ones. That works for me. Some vaccines I don't feel are necessary at all (like chicken pox). For the others that I couldn't decide on I chose to use the catchup schedule to lessen the # of vaxes we do, I decided not to vax at all until at least 2 years old and to spread out the vaxes we get. That works for me. I don't take a chance on some and the ones I feel 'may' be beneficial I can hopefully lower the chance of reactions. You just need to decide what is best for your family and remember that you are the mother. No one knows what is better for YOUR children than you do! Check out the CDC catch up schedule and the delayed/selective vax subforum here and see if that helps you any.
post #62 of 69
Thread Starter 

thanks, I'm on this forum because I'm really interested in the information/opinion of non-vaxers, since about 99% of information you get elsewhere is biased towards vaxing.  I'm leaning towards not vaccinating at all, which is also why I'm posting here.  I've been lurking on the selective vax forum though.

post #63 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma View Post

too liberal with which numbers?

 

I just ordered "Make an Informed Vaccine Decision" I'd like to compare the numbers with The Vaccine Book.


They try to wash over many of the ingrediants by using big words they know parents won't understand, but won't consent to the vaccination if they knew what it was in lay language. Plus, they recommend many shots that are nonsense.

post #64 of 69

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Edited by member234098 - 6/10/12 at 9:44pm
post #65 of 69

For me, vaccination started as a "oh, that's a neat idea" thing....can't remember his name saw that milkmaids who came across cows who had cowpox didn't end up getting smallpox as much.  So then he started getting the pus from cowpox pustules on milkmaids and injecting that into other poeple, and they then didn't get smallpox. 

 

Interesting idea, right?  Kinda neat?

 

But then it became industrialized, and they all all that junk in!  Just give me the cow pus, ya know? 

 

Because really they are putting something into your system so that your body reacts to it and has a small immune reaction, so when you come across it in the future you can have a bigger reaction, and perhaps not get it or not get it as bad.

 

But again, there's all that stuff in it.  And the stuff HAS TO have effects on people.  I wouldn't go inject formaldehyde and chicken egg embryo and human "diploid cells" into my system; I don't know anyone who would do that willingly. 

 

So, to me, just give me the disease, we'll deal with it.

 

More importantly, we won't choose physicians on "is it OK if I don't vaccinate", but on "do you know how to PROPERLY deal with these illnesses so YOU don't kill us if we get the diseases?"  That, to me, is FAR more important than if they'll "let" you into their practice.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma View Post

...and I'm considering getting the Pertussis shot for myself and husband.


 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post


The TDaP for adults has not been shown to prevent transmission.  Basically, you could be carrying the bacteria and not know it because you would be asymptomatic.  so, in a sense, you could be more dangerous to your LOs because you wouldn't know you were contagious.  The vaccine does not prevent you from getting pertussis, it only prevents the bacteria from killing off the scillia and making you cough


Wanted to say "yeah, that".

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post
If they were even collected here, sometimes, like with the DTP, the people who supposedly died from Pertussis actually were people where the child's parents failed to care properly for their children. The children never once went to the doctor until they were dead essentually.


Or, IMO, worse...if they took their kids to a doctor who did not know how to properly care for that person with the disease, and made it all much much worse.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma View Post

ok...I'm open to hearing how others have calculated the risk...can you give me an example of figures to show me how it would be calculated?  I'm a little confused how I'm suppose know the % of unvaccinated...


Just doesn't matter to me!  The theory of vaxes is interesting, but ultimately I'd rather deal with the disease.

 

I know from previous schooling and meeting a woman who was being trained as a nurse at the time of the polio outbreaks, that they taught one way of defining "polio" during the beginning of the outbreak.  Certain fever, certain time the fever lasted, etc.  As soon as the vaccine came out, mysteriously, the definition for polio changed.  The fever had to be higher.  It had to last longer.  etc.  It became harder to be DIAGNOSED with polio; who knows if it was harder to GET polio.  They changed the playing field.  

 

As for diphtheria, if the membrane grows in the throat, open throat, stick in finger, sweep the membrane away.  Do again and again.  That way you won't choke on it.  My great grandfather got to do this for his daughter.  One of EIGHT children at home (at home!) who got this disease.  Small house, 10 people, ONE kid got it.  He stayed up day and night with her as her body worked through the disease, when her breathing was impacted by the membrane, he swept it away (family lore says it is a tough membrane, which is likely why he did this instead of my great grandmother).  She got through it. 

 

It just goes on and on. 

 

The only thing that even vaguely scares me is meningitis, but I've read a lot about how the particular strain that they have the vaccine for might be lessened, but it's caused OTHER strains to strengthen!  OH great.  So ultimately all the vaccine has done is made it easier to get meningitis from the other strains.  Brilliant.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma View Post

I don't think the vaccine is that effective though, for example in NJ in 2009 there was an outbreak, and 100% of kids were fully vaccinated against it...also as another poster noted, being vaccinated doesn't mean you're immune and won't spread it to others.


 

And, in fact, the vaccine isn't MEANT to make you immune.  All the vaccine does is stop the toxoid from being made by the body, which causes the telltale cough.  So you would HAVE pertussis but not know it.  So you wouldln't keep yourself away from others, you wouldn't stay at home, you would go all over the place, infecting others.  It's not created to stop you from getting it.  IT's created to stop the cough.  Period.

 

And honestly I don't know the mechanism that causes death from pertussis, but I'm not sure it's the *cough*, so I'm not sure that the vaccine does anything to prevent death at all.  It's just...if you are not vaccinated for pertussis, a doctor is going to test you for pertussis...if you ARE vaccinated, it's going to be a whole lot harder to get someone to do those tests....

 

 

 

 

I believe in a whole immune system, and I'm so glad I have been able to do that for my son!  I got vaccines, even smallpox despite being born in late 1969...in 1970 the doctor filling in for my ped was told that we might be moving to CAnada, he decided that Canada was dangerous, got the shot ready, grabbed me from my mother's arms, put me facedown, and gave me the shot right in my spine!  I still have the smallpox scar, the same look as the one on the arm, but much bigger because backs grow more than arms do, right over T4/T5.  Which is a very unstable area of my spine, which I know b/c I am (though I do not practice) a chiropractor, and have been under care since I was 15, and I know my weak spot and that's it.  I have a really ridiculous immune system, allergies to everything.  My husband's immune system is better, but he didn't get the smallpox (born in '72), though he did get other stuff since his family traveled to Asia and believed in the shots.  That said, when he gets sick he gets SICK, as in he's had two brain tumors kind of sick (one that could have killed him, but he healed with macrobiotics and NO western medicine, the other a pituitary tumor that he is using western medicine to diminish), so....

 

Every friend that I have who has had NO vaccines has an incredible immune system.  I mean, amazing.  They fight things off with ease and only rarely get really sick.  When really sick, they take it easy, rest, do all the things you should do when sick (none of this dose yourself with something so you don't feel sick stuff), and they heal up.

 

So I choose a whole immune system.

 

Though if someone had pus from cowpox, I might consider that. 

 

 

Anyway, after all that...why do you need the ped to begin with?  We took DS to a naturopath from when he was 2 weeks old, had the occasional visit, he had his 1 year checkup, and I just never took him back.  He's had two ER visits and they were great.  "Is he up to date on his shots?" (because that's relevant when dealing with a burn from helping dad cook dinner, or from falling on a metal clothing rack stand and changing mental behavior)  "Well, WA doesn't require you to be, so looking at it that way, YES we are."  "OK, thanks."
 

post #66 of 69
Thread Starter 

Well we've made our decision, we're not vaccinating anymore.  Thanks for the discussion!  My decision to see this Ped is because I know a lot of non-vaxers go to him, so in my interview I will see what kind of support he gives to those families. 

post #67 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkybean View Post


 

And, in fact, the vaccine isn't MEANT to make you immune.  All the vaccine does is stop the toxoid from being made by the body, which causes the telltale cough.  So you would HAVE pertussis but not know it.  So you wouldln't keep yourself away from others, you wouldn't stay at home, you would go all over the place, infecting others.  It's not created to stop you from getting it.  IT's created to stop the cough.  Period.

 

And honestly I don't know the mechanism that causes death from pertussis, but I'm not sure it's the *cough*, so I'm not sure that the vaccine does anything to prevent death at all.  It's just...if you are not vaccinated for pertussis, a doctor is going to test you for pertussis...if you ARE vaccinated, it's going to be a whole lot harder to get someone to do those tests....

 


actually, the cough itself can indeed kill an infant. they can cough uncontrollably for so long that they're unable to breathe, and they asphyxiate. i think getting them on a respirator in the ICU is very helpful at avoiding death, but the anoxia can also cause permanent brain damage.

 

also, the vaccine doesn't just protect against the toxiod. it's actually a very complex vaccine that induces something of an immune response to the bacteria itself. it's not great at preventing transmission, but it probably doesn't have zero effect either.

post #68 of 69

If your gut is telling you not to vaccinate then do not do it...why do you care what people say? or what will you say if they ask??  it is not their problem..it is not their baby...it is your baby and your decision...believe me your baby is better off without any vaccines....if you are worried that they will attack you with some questions you have to prepare yourself for it with some good knowledge. Since I found out I was preggie I never stopped educated myself on this subject and now I am mother of my very strong and healthy 8 months old baby girl and she never had any problems apart from mild cold that lasted 2 days and a few days of runny nose....If someone would ask me anything about vaccinations - they won`t catch me not able to answer that question...I am so ready that I think I actually could easily go around and run meeting with parents about this subject!!!.forget facts that doctors are telling you or you read - 99.99% of it is a lie...because not all is put on paper...there are thousands and thousands of cases that never been reported where child had a nasty reactions to vaccines or died...they would say that it wasn`t vaccines..of course they would...they would say that mother is crazy or even accuse them of abuse!! think about what these vaccines contain...it is nothing else but poison...nothing good can come out of it...you will never be able to get it out of your child`s body...mercury, formaldehyd, monkey kidneys, human aborted cells...what the hell????

 

VACCINATION IS BUSINESS BASED ON FEAR! and not only that..whole world is based on this fear and lies..but people need to wake up and open their mind and eyes....it is all so obvious...watch the details..how it all works, how they make people believe in every crap authorities say...people seem not to have their own opinions and brains anymore.....

 

don`t be afraid to speak up and stand up for what you believe in girl! and if they judge you - just tell them to shut up....

 

good luck!

 

post #69 of 69

check this out:

 

http://vran.org/

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/

 

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html  (here you can find out what vaccines contain-you might want to puke)

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