For me, vaccination started as a "oh, that's a neat idea" thing....can't remember his name saw that milkmaids who came across cows who had cowpox didn't end up getting smallpox as much. So then he started getting the pus from cowpox pustules on milkmaids and injecting that into other poeple, and they then didn't get smallpox.
Interesting idea, right? Kinda neat?
But then it became industrialized, and they all all that junk in! Just give me the cow pus, ya know?
Because really they are putting something into your system so that your body reacts to it and has a small immune reaction, so when you come across it in the future you can have a bigger reaction, and perhaps not get it or not get it as bad.
But again, there's all that stuff in it. And the stuff HAS TO have effects on people. I wouldn't go inject formaldehyde and chicken egg embryo and human "diploid cells" into my system; I don't know anyone who would do that willingly.
So, to me, just give me the disease, we'll deal with it.
More importantly, we won't choose physicians on "is it OK if I don't vaccinate", but on "do you know how to PROPERLY deal with these illnesses so YOU don't kill us if we get the diseases?" That, to me, is FAR more important than if they'll "let" you into their practice.
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Originally Posted by
lovebeingamomma 
...and I'm considering getting the Pertussis shot for myself and husband.
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Originally Posted by
Fyrestorm
The TDaP for adults has not been shown to prevent transmission. Basically, you could be carrying the bacteria and not know it because you would be asymptomatic. so, in a sense, you could be more dangerous to your LOs because you wouldn't know you were contagious. The vaccine does not prevent you from getting pertussis, it only prevents the bacteria from killing off the scillia and making you cough
Wanted to say "yeah, that".
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Originally Posted by
Lisa1970
If they were even collected here, sometimes, like with the DTP, the people who supposedly died from Pertussis actually were people where the child's parents failed to care properly for their children. The children never once went to the doctor until they were dead essentually.
Or, IMO, worse...if they took their kids to a doctor who did not know how to properly care for that person with the disease, and made it all much much worse.
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Originally Posted by
lovebeingamomma
ok...I'm open to hearing how others have calculated the risk...can you give me an example of figures to show me how it would be calculated? I'm a little confused how I'm suppose know the % of unvaccinated...
Just doesn't matter to me! The theory of vaxes is interesting, but ultimately I'd rather deal with the disease.
I know from previous schooling and meeting a woman who was being trained as a nurse at the time of the polio outbreaks, that they taught one way of defining "polio" during the beginning of the outbreak. Certain fever, certain time the fever lasted, etc. As soon as the vaccine came out, mysteriously, the definition for polio changed. The fever had to be higher. It had to last longer. etc. It became harder to be DIAGNOSED with polio; who knows if it was harder to GET polio. They changed the playing field.
As for diphtheria, if the membrane grows in the throat, open throat, stick in finger, sweep the membrane away. Do again and again. That way you won't choke on it. My great grandfather got to do this for his daughter. One of EIGHT children at home (at home!) who got this disease. Small house, 10 people, ONE kid got it. He stayed up day and night with her as her body worked through the disease, when her breathing was impacted by the membrane, he swept it away (family lore says it is a tough membrane, which is likely why he did this instead of my great grandmother). She got through it.
It just goes on and on.
The only thing that even vaguely scares me is meningitis, but I've read a lot about how the particular strain that they have the vaccine for might be lessened, but it's caused OTHER strains to strengthen! OH great. So ultimately all the vaccine has done is made it easier to get meningitis from the other strains. Brilliant.
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Originally Posted by
lovebeingamomma
I don't think the vaccine is that effective though, for example in NJ in 2009 there was an outbreak, and 100% of kids were fully vaccinated against it...also as another poster noted, being vaccinated doesn't mean you're immune and won't spread it to others.
And, in fact, the vaccine isn't MEANT to make you immune. All the vaccine does is stop the toxoid from being made by the body, which causes the telltale cough. So you would HAVE pertussis but not know it. So you wouldln't keep yourself away from others, you wouldn't stay at home, you would go all over the place, infecting others. It's not created to stop you from getting it. IT's created to stop the cough. Period.
And honestly I don't know the mechanism that causes death from pertussis, but I'm not sure it's the *cough*, so I'm not sure that the vaccine does anything to prevent death at all. It's just...if you are not vaccinated for pertussis, a doctor is going to test you for pertussis...if you ARE vaccinated, it's going to be a whole lot harder to get someone to do those tests....
I believe in a whole immune system, and I'm so glad I have been able to do that for my son! I got vaccines, even smallpox despite being born in late 1969...in 1970 the doctor filling in for my ped was told that we might be moving to CAnada, he decided that Canada was dangerous, got the shot ready, grabbed me from my mother's arms, put me facedown, and gave me the shot right in my spine! I still have the smallpox scar, the same look as the one on the arm, but much bigger because backs grow more than arms do, right over T4/T5. Which is a very unstable area of my spine, which I know b/c I am (though I do not practice) a chiropractor, and have been under care since I was 15, and I know my weak spot and that's it. I have a really ridiculous immune system, allergies to everything. My husband's immune system is better, but he didn't get the smallpox (born in '72), though he did get other stuff since his family traveled to Asia and believed in the shots. That said, when he gets sick he gets SICK, as in he's had two brain tumors kind of sick (one that could have killed him, but he healed with macrobiotics and NO western medicine, the other a pituitary tumor that he is using western medicine to diminish), so....
Every friend that I have who has had NO vaccines has an incredible immune system. I mean, amazing. They fight things off with ease and only rarely get really sick. When really sick, they take it easy, rest, do all the things you should do when sick (none of this dose yourself with something so you don't feel sick stuff), and they heal up.
So I choose a whole immune system.
Though if someone had pus from cowpox, I might consider that.
Anyway, after all that...why do you need the ped to begin with? We took DS to a naturopath from when he was 2 weeks old, had the occasional visit, he had his 1 year checkup, and I just never took him back. He's had two ER visits and they were great. "Is he up to date on his shots?" (because that's relevant when dealing with a burn from helping dad cook dinner, or from falling on a metal clothing rack stand and changing mental behavior) "Well, WA doesn't require you to be, so looking at it that way, YES we are." "OK, thanks."
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