Sooo conflicted over visitation schedule, need advice!

[trixiedeluxe]

helloooo all you fabulous mamas -- am so happy to be here.  STBX and i separated 3 mos ago, he never ever ever parented but now of course is demanding 50/50 visitation with our 4 and 8 yo DSs.  i really really really need some support and advice!

currently we have a 5 days out of 14 sched, negotiated in mediation, that neither of us are happy with: every other weekend fri pm - mon am, plus weds overnights.

*i* think he should have every other weekend fri/sat, and one week night visit -- overnight on vacation/holidays, only for the evening on school nights.  *he* wants either 7 on/7 off or 2/2/3. 

my feelings are this: kids need one home.  they need a place they know is home, a context, a stable base.  divided visitation (we are going to share legal custody) totally undermines this -- the kids feel like they live in a hotel, they don't *belong* anywhere.  and i feel it's even harder for younger children -- i mean, my 4yo still nurses!  he struggles with being away from me for 3 nights, much less 7.

STBX just doesn't give a crap.  he gives all kinds of lip service to doing what is best for the boys but bottom line wants his equal time and that's that.  i work at home and am able to be present for them.  when he has them he takes them to school early and leaves them late, uses other paid caregivers during "his" time when he can't be with them, tells me 'that's just how it's going to be and you better get used to it."

he also ONLY cares about overnights. doesn't call the boys when he doesn't have them, no interest in participating in their lives or activities on nights that arent his because, he says, that renders him the "visiting" parent. 

all this despite the family therapist we are all seeing together talking to him about how kids need to wake up in their own beds -- the same beds -- every school morning, that 2/2/3 undermines them, that they really need ongoing and fluid contact with BOTH parents (ie phone calls, show up at school plays etc even when it's not your night). 

arrrgggghhh.  so i guess what i am mainly asking is for support to keep fighting for what i know is right for them.  he has so much more money than i do, and frankly bullies and threatens me to get his way.  it just goes on and on and on, and i get so tired of fighting.  i start rationalizing that the boys do need their dad (and he is OK with them, not great, but way better than i would have ever guessed he'd be capable of) and there has to be some way to work out a 50% split that isn't 2/2/3 always shuffling the boys around and leaving them insecure and rootless, or 7 on/7 off that is just way too long for them to be away from their mama (esp since i am the only real caregiver they've known since birth). 

but also i just really want to hear real life stories about how thinking, caring AP mamas have worked out their visitation scheds.  are there good sides to 2/2/3 i just don't know about?  every single parent i know and respect seems to have started out 2/2/3 and then ended up changing it if they could (or just really really wanting to change it but unable to due to objecting ex) because the kids struggled.  my ex is def in that category -- all along i've been saying we need to take this slowly and build up to completely shared time when they're ready for it, likely not til they're older, and he wants it NOW.  and i know if it was going badly i'd never be able to get back any days i give him now unless i pried them from his cold, dead, fingers...

i am so very thankful for this forum -- for a safe place to talk this through -- i can't wait to hear about other people's experiences and perspectives re: sharing time between separated parents.

trixie

[NolaRiordan]

Do you know what the courts are like in your area? Here the default is 50-50 parenting time. If that's the case where you are then there may be little point in wasting the time and money to keep fighting. Do you have a lawyer? If so what does he / she say?

We have 2-2-3. I agree it's not ideal. But I have to say my kids have done fairly well with it. They were 5 and 8 when we started. It's been 2 years now of that schedule.

[NolaRiordan]

Actually rereading your post I think what you've agreed to in mediation at this point sounds pretty good to me. I would be tempted to give that a try.

I would not do week by week for the ages of kids you have. Our mediator said the rule of thumb is that a kid should not be away from either parent for more days than they are old. So 4 days would be the max for a 4 year old.

[orangecanoe]

I don't think the one house thing is going to fly. Have you read Mom's House, Dad's House? It might give you a different perspective than the family therapist is offering. I actually think the plan you mediated sounds pretty ideal. I would be willing to give that a try for a length of time (6 months to a year) and know that the kids' needs will change over time.

[NolaRiordan]

Originally Posted by orangecanoe 

I don't think the one house thing is going to fly.

Right. The therapist may say that but a judge likely would not agree. Around here the idea is that the court feels parents should have equal access to the kids. And each parent has a right to raise the kids the way they see fit as long as there is not gross negligence or abuse. It would be good to know what the feeling of the court is where you are. I do believe there are some places where there's preference for the mom. So if you have gotten him to agree to less than 50% of the overnights at this time I would probably go with that and count myself lucky. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, and it's a tough lesson to learn. Believe me I went through the same thing.

[One_Girl]

Is it possible to put a clause in the decree that gives each of you the right of first refusal before daycare is used?  That way even if he does get 50/50 he will have to let you watch the kids instead of daycare or someone else when he isn't with them.  He will still probably have the right to pick them up whenever he wants to on his days on (just as he would with daycare) but that would still be better than endless hours in daycare.

[trixiedeluxe]

i would be more than happy to keep it where it is, with every other weekend and weds overnights, but he's the one pushing for 50/50 NOW.  i'm even saying over and over again, though obviously not being heard, that i WANT to go to equal co-parenting eventually, only now is not the time. 

also that you don't just set up one visitation agreement and that's it, forever -- i mean, life happens.  things change, people's life circumstances change, children get older and develop their own lives -- you have to be able to adjust.  i'm totally willing to be periodically re-evaluating, see how everybody's doing, if any adjustments need to be made, and he wants to literally chart it out carved in stone, down to who gets which week of summer vacation from now til they graduate high school. 

mainly though i am just hugely conflict-avoidant, and there are times i want to cave in and give him what he wants just to make the harassment stop.  BUT i know the 7 days is not good for our boys right now, and i just have to steel myself to keep fighting when fighting is the last thing i want to do or feel capable of doing.  i think he knows this about me and is counting on me caving in, like i always did for the past 11 years.  it's so hard for me to stand here and just keep fighting back!

my atty says that in maryland they look favorably on 5 days out of 14, so if i do have to fight this in court that i actually have a chance of getting it.  i also have documentation from their teachers, our pediatrician, our family therapist all saying that 5/14 is the best thing for them right now.  so i have all this support, yet STILL struggle against feeling completely overwhelmed and overpowered by him, and his complete disregard for the needs of anyone other than himself...

[NolaRiordan]

Wait, where's your mediator in all of this? You should not be feeling harassed and bullied in mediation. If you are then it sounds to me like your mediator isn't doing their job. Ours made sure we talked to her and not each other, and separated us for a while which was actually helpful. After years of being bullied and manipulated by my X mediation was actually a breath of fresh air in a way because there was a 3rd party there who was able to cut through his BS. Can you switch mediators? Or have your attorney there with you? Or it might be more efficient to go right to the judge if mediation isn't getting you anywhere.

On the issue of changing schedules in the future you should work something like that into the agreement. I assumed we would be changing schedules in the future based on our kids needs, our work schedules, etc. but X has refused every request and there's nothing I can do about it. So we have had exactly the same schedule for over 2 years now. So while it's nice to think you can be flexible in the future it may not happen if your X won't agree.

[MissLotus]

OP, I completely agree about the 50/50 thing not being a good idea - it's too much shuffling around.  So stay firm and try to get what you want for your kids.  If your ex is a bully, giving in won't help anyway, as that type always needs to be bullying about something else anyway.  You also don't want to set the tone, for the forthcoming years, that all he needs to do is make announcements to make things happen.  Let him know from the get-go that you mean business, too.

And you can put the very reasonable clause in your agreement that the schedule may be re-visited in the future depending on the children's needs, activities and schedules - that could mean your ex could get more, or less time, with them in the future.  As long as you make it appear to a judge that you are flexible and quite willing to foster the kids' relationship with their father - while at the same time being aware that it's a large adjustment for them, as you've always been their primary caregiver (make a list of ALL the duties you have done, and that your ex has not), so you want to make the transition as easy as possible and maintain stability for them. 

Also the previous poster with the "first right of refusal" clause idea was right on target - you NEED to request that.  If the judge sees your ex insisting on putting them in daycare when you are available to to care for them, it should make quite clear to any judge that your children's best interests are not your ex's concern.  Good luck and do not let your ex's bullying sway you. 

[Goodmom2008]

What state are you in?  That is going to determine how successful your fight will be.  Also, chances are very good that the schedule you have now will be the one that is ordered if it goes in front of a judge. 

What I would do if I were you, if you live in one of the stupid states who don't take the kids into consideration and have a presumption of 50/50 physical, is push real hard for a right of first refusal.  Which means that you get the kids over a daycare center.  It would also work the other way, as well. 

What does your attorney say is likely to be ordered?

[kryztuh]

Hi, I'm also in Maryland and have a verbally abusive, bullying STBX, who wanted to push for 50/50 custody to reduce his child support obligation.  We also tried mediation unsuccessfully before I filed for custody and support. PM me sometime if you want to talk specifics about the Maryland system. I can share any insights with you that I've gotten from the mediator and my lawyer, who is fabulous and has pretty much squashed his dreams of world domination .

[crystal_buffaloe]

One more vote here for a right of first refusal. (And if he leaves the kids with a sitter or in daycare when you could watch them and doesn't contact you, document, document, document.)