Not vaccinating in Germany?

[MittensKittens]

Hi,

An acquaintance of mine is moving to Germany, and was told that not vaccinating children is illegal over there - and that adhering to the schedule is compulsory. Does anyone here have any info for her? I did see on here that there were folks delaying vax. Is not vaccinating possible? Will an unvaccinated child have trouble getting into the country?

Thanks!

[P.J.]

I'm almost certain that's not true. From what I know it is not at all compulsory, and no school or daycare will ask...this is just what I've heard, DS is still a baby so I dont know though. For sure they don't check at the border as we just got back from the US and nobody asked.
If I remember correctly, it is against EU law to force someone to take medicine against their will and vaccines fall under that category.
Sorry but I have no links right now to prove all of this but a quick google search will find the answer.

[Tigerle]

Not true. Vaxing is strongly recommended but not compulsory.

Due to several horrific child abuse incidents (children locked up and starved to death) well-baby visits according to the (previously merely recommended) schedule are now compulsory or you will have child protection services on your case. This may be what your friend heard about.

[silklunar]

it's not true .... and she won't have any problems finding kindergarten or school placements ... as all health information is needed to be given after enrollment ...

it's also not true that "well-baby visits" are compulsatory!!!!!

the only one that is compulsory is an examination that takes place at the health office when the child is old enough to go to school - which is about 5-6 years old - parents do get an extra invitation for that visits - if they won't go to that one child protection services will be informed ...  all other pediatric visits are recommended but not mandatory ..

[AJ's mommy]

Like the others said, vaccination can be denied althought they (in my only experience) made me feel really self-concious about saying no for my DS2. But I held my ground  

Silklunar, why then do I have the social services visiting me since November to go do the U6 and the U7a examinations  (I think those are the right ones) for DS1 who is 3 1/2 and DS2 who is 15 months now??? I keep telling them I'm waiting for our insurance cards to show up in the mail. And they will truly be here in a few weeks now. But I really feel like it's compulsary. What can I do then if I really do not want to go? The social worker said something about the law enforcement will decide of our faith if we don't go .  Thanks! 

I'm in Dusseldorf by the way!

[Rlin]

I live in Germany, and well child visits are not mandatory. And neither is vaccination. But, dr's are obliged to try to talk you into vaccinating. You just have to shop around to find a pediatrician that is willing to delay vaccination or to skip them all together. How would a social service know that you didn't go to the U6 and U7a? You can choose to go to any pediatrician you like, and they are not allowed to share patient information. I guess it is just that particular social service person that has a personal problem. I would just ask for another person and discuss why you don't want to go.

Or I would just take my kid to the U6, it is nothing more than weighing, measuring, listening to heart, looking in mouth and ears. And that's it.

[Plaid Leopard]

We left Germany a couple of years ago, but I do recall that the law regarding well-baby visits had changed and certain visits were required. We did not do one of the well-baby visits because we were out of the country, and we were tracked down and ordered to take our baby to the doctor in Italy and send proof that we had done so.

As far as vaccinations - we did not have a problem with that at all. We were lucky to have a pediatrician who believed in homeopathy and other natural rememdies, and was ok with not vaccinating.

[silklunar]

Hey AJ's mommy,

I am sorry to hear about your personal story - but as I wrote well baby visits are not compulsory.

I don't know how child service got involved with you in the first place - but if they are involved NOW I would just go to the well baby visits - go to a physician that is more on the alternative side, and there are a lot of them nowadays .....

Once child service is involved you better play a while they rules - a friend of mine had visits from them for about a year as her mother-in-law was worried about her grandson (who was a completely healthy baby at that time) - but my friend is a vegan and the mother-in-law didn't like that and was so worried about the baby ... so they showed up for a visit .... and did this for about a year ...

Maybe there are ways to get out of their reach ... but I'd need to know more why/how they got involved ...

[silklunar]

Originally Posted by Plaid Leopard 

We left Germany a couple of years ago, but I do recall that the law regarding well-baby visits had changed and certain visits were required. We did not do one of the well-baby visits because we were out of the country, and we were tracked down and ordered to take our baby to the doctor in Italy and send proof that we had done so.

who? tracked you down?

the well-baby visits are still non-compulsory .... recently they changed laws in Austria ... but not Germany ...

[Plaid Leopard]

The law (recommendations?) regarding well-baby visits did change in 2007.

I took my son who was born in 2003 to a few WBV because I liked the pedi, but then we stopped and it was no big deal.

When my other son was born in 2007, our new pedi - whom I liked even more as he was very natural-minded - explained that they had just changed the laws and that certain visits were compulsory. He actually disagreed with this change but was required to follow it. If parents skipped the WBV it was somehow reported.

I can't remember the whys an wherefores and don't have time to find info at the moment, but I'll be back!

[Plaid Leopard]

Ok - It looks like in some parts of Germany (like in Saarland, where we were living) the visits U1-U9 are not obligatory but strongly encouraged. If you miss a visit, the Jugendamt will send you a letter "reminding" you to take your child to the doctor. If you refuse, or don't go for whatever reason, then they may decide to investigate to make sure that you are not endangering your child. This follows in the wake of very publicized cases of children dying from severe abuse and neglect a few years ago.

So, I suppose the letter we received was just a friendly reminder. However, we had already had to deal with Social Services a couple of years earlier and we didn't want to risk having them investigate us again - even though on the whole they were friendly and helpful during the 6 months we dealt with them. A washing-machine repair man had called them on us after he decided that our house was too messy and our kids were being neglected (which was absolutely not true, by the way),

Really, if you find a good pedi, it is much easier to take the baby to get weighed and such and avoid any problems with the Jugendamt or Social Services. Or if you don't have your insurance card, take the child to the doctor's office to show them that everything is ok, tell them you can't pay for the visit and are waiting for your card, and schedule a visit for later.