Has anyone went from very relaxed to having structure? Did it work or not work for you?

[Climbing Rose]

For most of our lives as a family, we would probably be considered unschoolers. 

But I feel like we reached a point where it wasn't really working as good as it should have.

In my mind, I pictured (for instance) my DS getting really interested in castles, so we would get a bunch of books on them and maybe some DVDs and it would just be great.  And it was great when it worked.  But there were just getting to be so many times when we couldn't find good books, or we were too busy just with life, or I was pregnant/sick, or it just didn't happen.  Honestly, I don't know if I have the time right now for what I see unschooling as, being spontaneous, ready for any question, prepared for any fun educational activity, etc.

So unschooling for us ended up sometimes as not doing much more than just living life.  (Is that okay- to do just do nothing but live your life?  =)

Then there were the issues of when they did want to do something, like math or learning to read, they would have forgotten so much of it from the last time we worked on it.  I felt like we were wasting so much time relearning, because they took big breaks in the meantime.  It felt defeating.

My oldest also started to get to a point where he felt like he 'should be' learning certain things, but we were not really making time for fitting them in that well, with no set time and just general busyness.  Plus I think he kind of just wanted to know it without really having to learn it.

Plus, TBH, we are moving from an easy state to a hard state, and I have been thinking maybe we should give a little structure a try.  We have all been sick and are just sitting around on the couch anyway.

So for the past two weeks or so, we have been having 'lesson time.'  It's a few hours, and in a relaxed, fun way, we are covering the basics and doing a relaxed routine.  Math, writing, reading lesson, etc.

I am a little torn on it, because now that we have some actual text books, it is easy to feel 'behind.' 

Mostly, I don't want them to start to not like HSing or learning, and view it as something we 'have to' do everyday.

My DD-9 is not a huge fan of math, and does it sooooo slow, and I sit here now urging her on to just finish so we can do something she likes better.   I don't want her to hate math, but I don't want her to just push it aside again and forget all she's learned and not progress at all.

Another thing is that I have always went for understanding, and not drill/memorization, in math.  Now I feel like that was a mistake because it is really really adding to the slowness in doing math, as well as not progressing.  But my kids don't really want to just naturally memorize a bunch of facts.  So I feel like I have to push if I don't want them to be 'stuck.'

For a little background, I am pregnant and our DC are 11, 9, 6, 4, 2, and 1.  So that explains why we are busy.

So, any advice?  Did anyone go from unschooling to structure and regret it?  Or did you find your groove and have it start working better?  Does anyone unschool even when it's doing nothing, or do other unschoolers make time for cool educational things and dropping everything to answer questions and go to the library?

[inky leeuhhh]

we were pretty unschool-y last year when dd was in k. it was alright in some ways,  but i really felt like some structure suits her personality much better. the comprimise we came up with was to structure the basics (reading, writing, math) and be super relaxed with the rest. how do you think unschooling has worked for your older dcs so far? does it seem like they are learning the things they need to know? i felt the same way you did- like unschooling took a lot of time. i know it sounds weird, but it really was time consuming. i work full time right now, and i was not able to be as flexible with learning as unschooling required (which is a bummer, because i think it's the best way to go if you're able to do it). you have a big family, and i'd imagine you're just about as busy as i am working full time (if not more). i try to follow her cues. if she's having a rough day, we might go light on the math (her toughest subject), or skip something all together. i don't go more than two days without doing a subject too often, because i find after a couple days she gets off- track. if i feel like she's getting frusterated with something, i try to find another way to teach it, or (depending on what it is) skip it and come back to it later. we use handwriting without tears, singapore (which i may switch out for saxon), and story of the world for history. we follow sotw loosely and come up with ideas for projects based off of what we read. this is an interesting topic, i look forward to reading some of the other responses!

[lmonter]

My oldest is only 7yo, so I don't have years under my belt yet, there's my caveat.  That said, we're fairly relaxed homeschoolers, but I use Sonlight K for him right now. 
I do it more on a week-type basis than day-by-day though, if that makes sense.  Maybe we read four chapters of one book in one day vs. one chapter for four days, that kind of thing, but as long as I check off the majority of things (there's been a few books I've cast aside), I call it good.  So I have the structure of him being exposed to things and we're hitting new-to-him (and sometimes me!) material, the fact that things like that chapter today and this one tomorrow are laid out for the mommy at the end of her rope (four is *really* testing me), I have some records should I ever need them, etc.

Like you've mentioned, yeah, I can't drop everything (wake up kids from naps, halt dinner for an extra hour or two, spend two hours shoveling out the driveway when I should be folding laundry) to go to the library or hit an unplanned fire station tour and such.  Best I can do is have a nice supply of goodies on hand for an "I'm bored" day or they want to sit and tap away on our interactive globe for an hour.  Yup, my kids even watched two IMAX things on Netflix today - one about underwater volcanoes and the other was caves-something.  Mommy needed to nurse a baby down for a nap and take a shower.  ;)

[Greenmama2]

Hmm, quite possibly this is us. We are experimenting right now. DD is only K age but we gradually embraced radical unschooling and have been RU for around 2 years. I still cnsider us RU - we have no bedtimes. the children eat when they want and have a large say in what (within bidget limits etc) but we have found that having some academic structure not only suits DD, it actually seems to help her emotional regulation. She is rather bright and some days I suspect SPD or even on the spectrum. Our experiment has only lasted a week so far but the difference in our days and our suddenly calm little girl when I say "OK, it's time for some school. Would you like to do x or y now?" is amazing.

As always, I guess you just have to parent the child you have rather than sticking to any kind of dogma.

[Tigeresse]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2 

As always, I guess you just have to parent the child you have rather than sticking to any kind of dogma.

Absolutely!  We have moved to more structure and do not regret it at all, although applying more discipline to our days can be challenging!  I look at our approach now as more "needs based".  Trusting that I, as mom, can recognize and meet the needs of my kids and family as a whole even if they are not outwardly expressed or even desired.

[littlest birds]

We have and we are all a lot happier with structure.  My children vary in interest and ability.

We do not do every subject every day (we work in units that emphasize a couple of areas at a time) and even our oldest is completing three classes at a time (quickly) rather than six daily all semester/all year.  So 2-3 main things per day, with a little skills practice like math/spelling/music that needs steady attention included or added.  We have 3 or sometimes 4 structured mornings per week with a little bit of overflow into the afternoons.

With math we skip pages and I cross out half the problems per page with ds who loves and is good at math but cannot operate or write quickly. 

With 8yo dd we do math verbally a lot--for instance practicing multiplication--or she can for instance tell me how to do borrowing/carrying on our blackboard so I am writing it out and she is being the director; when she feels really good at it then she can practice on paper in small quantities.  If something is not finished then it is fine for another day.  I do not worry much about being behind but I do worry about losing their interest because that will get us truly behind.  I care whether dd has made the effort to do what she can of course, but working on her relationship with my expectations is more about parenting than academics.  I am always learning how to be fair and compassionate while still conveying expectations that they will care about meeting.  It can be hard to create a shared sense of importance for the schoolwork.  I definitely agree with the role of practice/drill in math, but it works best if it is something they have had an introduction to that makes them feel positive about proceeding.  Easier said than done, I know.

I think dd appreciates when I get up and do something myself for/with her and put a real effort into what I am offering.  There is no shortcut for that and it is hard hard hard to keep going with it and make time and keep myself rolling.  The big blackboard is a new thing, we are liking it a lot right now for sharing visually and focusing and I try to make it pretty and special and stick with it.  Anyhow, they see me doing math, they see me for instance taking the compass and making something truly interesting.  I am interested, they are interested.  I make an effort right there with them and so they get a message (over and over) that it's worth an effort.  I act like the structure matters, and so do they.  (Structure does not come easily to me, either!)  I show that I like these subjects!  (Fortunately I really do and I want to keep tapping into that side of myself)  It is so easy for us all to end up feeling schoolwork is almost like a chore list complete with the automatic toe-dragging, but that just doesn't work for us so I have had to really work on my attitudes toward all of it so we won't be in that place.

It is definitely not picture perfect, but this at least is what I striving for and sometimes succeeding with.  I work to create an overall family atmosphere of valuing the commitment to give our lessons a given claim on our time and attention by setting that as an example. 

[Storm Bride]

I'm still totally figuring out what we're doing. I tend to be kind of unschool-y, but...between pregnancy exhaustion (dd1's K year), new baby in the house (dd1's 1st grade year) and then the run of illness that knocked us all down - over and over and over and over - throughout the Fall, I'm feeling as though things just aren't working.

I'm trying to impose a very general structure, but I'm the weak link. I'm just so tired, and between that and dealing with toddler antics, I'm not even managing to remember what my structure's supposed to be!

Generally, I've started making sure the kids do some seatwork every day. It's mostly workbooks, but I have some really cool science stuff (light, magnets, electricity and aerodynamics) ordered, and shipping soon. Our real structure right now is like this:

Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday: Some seatwork at some point. Some outside time. Read aloud. No set times for any of it.

Thursday: Some seat work in the morning. DS2 has a dance class at 1:30, and dd1 either helps toddler wrangle, or draws during the class. He also has Tae Kwon Do at 4:00, and the same applies.

Friday: Alternating. Every other Friday, we attend a homelearning social meetup with a bunch of other kids - this is almost all social time, but they do a craft (optional). On the alternating Friday, we hit the library and stock up on DVDs and books, which the kids choose.

My ideal schedule would be:

Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday: Get up. Have breakfast. Go for a walk/playground time (depending partly on the weather). Do some seatwork. Then, after lunch, one of these days would be art day, where we'd work on a craft. One of these days will be the day for dd1's piano lesson, but I don't know which one yet. The other day...maybe more art, but probably a semi-major science experiment. (Small science experiments/craft projects will be ongoing and spontaneous, once I'm set up a little better.)

Thursday: Start off with the walk and seatwork, then ds2's classes (this will change once he finishes the dance class in March, though).

Friday: Same as it is now.

Weekends are pretty open, but dd1 now has her ballet class on Saturday afternoons. They (dd1 and ds2) also have a nature program at the local Ecology Center about once a month, and it's always on Sunday. I'm really trying to keep one day very loose, but we'lll see how it plays out. I also want to make sure they have lots of outside time, but that part's going okay.

I also want to start doing more board games, which kind of faded out, because dd1 and ds2 were both wigging out. They're a little tricky with dd2 around, though. And, my schedule will be open to changes, because dd1 also wants to start Tae Kwon Do (will be at a different time than ds2's, because they're not the same age), and ds2's dance class will permanently wind up in March (it's only open to age 5, and only runs Sept-March).

I'm really, really, really, really, really hoping this will all come together a little better when I don't have a toddler, anymore!

[Aeress]

It does get easier as the toddler grows a bit, last year was tough with my 2 yr old. This year, I have activities that she can do that are like what we are doing, so she doesn't feel left out. This has helped a lot.

We were more unschooly until this year, when we decided that math and reading were a most for everyday. So, I do require reading and math everyday. As mentioned, I felt that the kids were loosing whatever they had learned because we weren't always getting back to it- 2 things I did to keep us on track, 1- bought an online subscription to a math program, 2- found a reading/writing/spelling approach that made sense to us. We are also using a Montessori approach, which has really helped. I know some people disagree with the idea of setting the environment for the child, they see it as manipulative, but it allows for more freedom of choice than if I wanted to follow a more traditional approach.

And I know it can feel like you are behind, but I have found that kids can get caught pretty quickly.

[lachingona1]

Your post sounds very similar to us. We unschool, that is how I always pictured us and really believe in.

I am finding, like you mentioned, I don't really have the time for the spontaneous things or these super crafty ideas that dd1 comes up with.  I think right now it is because I have an 18 month old and a 3 month old.  My dd is only 6, but she has these big ideas and I cannot just drop everything and go do them, that is not very practical anymore. I don't think she is falling behind, she can read and write well but I feel like she is just going to stop showing interest in certain things because I cannot find lots of time to do those things. Lately I have noticed she would rather go watch a movie, not a documentary, a kids movie.  My 3 yo is very interested in writing letters and numbers now, I feel like if I don't embrace this moment she will not be interested for awhile. Then the guilt sets in. 

I am going to try out a schedule, have my dd1 help plan it, and really, really try to stick with it.  I have never been one for routines or schedules but for my own sanity I am going to try one.  I am sure this will all pass as the littlest ones get older but right now it is overwhelming.

[Starflower]

We're also experimenting with structure. We're adding in a little bit at a time. So far, none is even academic, although I do have Math U See and plan to start using it soon. I was going to start doing cursive with DD (7) but she liked the book and started it on her own. DD is a perfectionist and sees a therapist for anxiety. Earlier this year, she was in a depression, so we had to make some changes. The frustrating part is that while DD definitely needs structure to feel in control, she resists much of it - especially in the beginning. I am hoping that eventually we'll get the right mix of structure to our days and our parenting.

We have started having weekly family meetings. DD hates meetings, even though she gets to have her say and input. (I so would've loved to have had some input when I was a kid.) These meetings are structured using "Positive Discipline" techniques by Jane Nelson. While DD isn't happy about them, she is responding well to them. And so are we. We make our decisions as a family and then we all have to be accountable for meeting our agreements. This is harder than one would think. The main obstacle to keeping our structures in place until they become habits seems to be me and DH. Last night I had to force myself to not take an extra 5 minutes for reading at bedtime. Instead, I told DD: "Bummer. I don't have time to do my crossword tonight because I took too long getting ready for bed."

I know a lot of structured families may find revelations like this obvious, but for us, this is very new territory. In the past, I would try to make too many changes at once, and then get angry at the new structure - even though I'd imposed it upon myself - and just let everything go.

I think I'll be able to add in the math stuff soon as we get more rhythm to our days. Another key for us seems to be regulating media. And on that cue, I will sign off since I am 7 minutes past the time I told myself I'd get off of here.

[Aeress]

Forgot to mention we do school officially from 9-11:30-12. Everyday, we head up to our school room by 9. I find having a set time helps with the grumping, whining, complaining. Sometimes we are done early, sometimes we go longer, it just depends. If they get their math/reading done, they are welcome to explore other areas and work independetly until lunch. After lunch, they all have rest- which is usally a book, book on tape or quiet activity. Once I have exercised they are welcome to continue a project, play, or do what they please until dinner time. The kids know what to expect but we also have flexibility in our day. 

Do you have a routine?

[lizzie]

I am going through some of the same things, including moving from a very laid back state to a much stricter state. We've been flying by the seat of our pants since the beginning even though we told ourselves we'd be all hardcore and classical when I first started convincing DH that homeschool was the way. Then we woke up... I mean, I would still love to have done that, and am always impressed with the families that have, but our lives got a little... crazy and it was always next month, next season, next year, and now 5 years into it, we're not even close. And all things considered, with all that we've been through, and considering the kids having had no formal schooling ever, I'm pretty happy with where we're at now. Really pleased with who my kids are and what they know. I think we've learned a lot together, just living our crazy life, that we would've missed out on with more structure in our lives.

However, to my amazement, what I've found is that *I* am the one who needs the structure! That combined with the move and knowing my third little love is due in late May, I'm feeling the need to get more organized and set up a system (or find a curriculum we can work with) where the kids and I will know what needs to happen each day so we can at least achieve the minimum even when I'm not able to participate as fully as I'd like to do. In the past, when we've done a more traditional approach here and there, it was typically a day or two of whining followed up by handling is just fine when they knew what was going to be expected of them. I'm sure it will be similar this time around, but we're just starting to settle in after the move so we're still working out our details. :)

[Lakeeffectsnow]

Hi, this is my first post in this forum.  We unschooled our older two children, DD 12 and DSS 13.  The results varied.  My daughter really took to it, especially when it was just the two of us.  I was in school when she was born, and I'd study with her on my back in her sling.  Even as baby and a toddler, she was content to page through books and scribble on paper while I was busy.  From the moment she could talk, she had so many questions and wanted, needed to find the answers.

When my now husband and stepson entered our lives, my stepson had come from a very structured childcare setting and he seemed bewildered by the freedom.  Even as a toddler, he was two when we met, he'd wander aimlessly until someone told him what to do.  He has always like rules, boundaries, and schedules.  

 I continued for several years to unschool them, even after I had my two younger boys.  I loved the idea of unschooling since I read the "  teenage liberation handbook" in high school, I devoured everything I could find by John Holt while I pregnant with my daughter.  Again my daughter is quite content to learn at her own accelerated pace.  If she wanted to learn math, she'd either go on line and find on line games to teach herself or she'd ask DH or I to get her a work book.  If she's interested in mummies, she'd ask for a ride to the library and check out everything she could find and ask for more from inter library loans.  She easily reads at a college level and takes on line high school level math classes.  She's on a home school swim team, takes ballet, and trades babysitting for art lessons.  Basically she's the dream unschooling student.

My stepson, his dad and I have complete custody, was never happy with unschooling.  He was discontented, restless, and had no interests.  He never attended school or even structured day care after the age of three.  He'd continually ask for grades, schedules and "real school work".  I made the mistake of trying to US him because it was my dream and because I "thought" it should work.  He didn't want to learn at his own pace, he wanted me to tell him what to do.  Oddly, he's a pretty opinionated about anything outside of schooling.  He has definite opinions about his clothes, how he wears his hair, the kind of music he likes ect.  It's almost as if he needs the structure so he has something to push back against.  Finally, when he was 8 years old, he couldn't read, write, or count past 20, I broke down and bought a boxed curriculum.  He loved it!  He learned to read within of six weeks.  He's happy to whiz through his daily curriculum so he play WOW, skate board, and read.  

I've been much more structured with my two younger boys, ages 8 and 7.  I have 7 week old baby girl, so I'm trying to be organized to keep everything going.  But, for the last six months I've been letting things slide with them.  My 8 year old is more like his sister and seems to thrive going at his own pace.  He's content to explore his interests, play legos, read a bit, do some on line math games, go to cub scouts.  My 7 year old, has ADHD and other challenges.  Left to his own devices, he's dismantle the washing machine, destroy something, and cry for hours because he feels so bad about what he has done.  He has a daily schedule posted on the refrigerator.  We have him scheduled for activities every day of the week.  My husband works 3-11, so he ferries DS7 to his daily activities, Monday home school swim, Tuesday martial arts, Wednesday home school gymnastics, Thursday martial arts, and Friday another home school swim.  Plus he does cub scouts with his older brother and park day every Friday afternoon.  We do his school work every morning from 8am to 9am.  He seems happiest with knowing exactly what to expect.

[Greenmama2]

This has become such an interesting thread. Lakeeffectsnow, I wanted to thank you for posting. It really helps to know there are other unschoolers who have DC that don't fit the stereotypical unschooling mould.

I should update too that our added structure is working out really well. DD has been so much calmer and happier all round.

[NightOwlwithowlet]

I was unschooled for a while as a child both at home and at an alternative school.  The school was completely child led and no one really kept track of what we were doing.  I loved to read and spent every day at the library.  Basically, I wound up very well read with a great understanding of history and I was abismally ignorant in science and math.  I was 3-4 years behind in math, and at least two years behind in writing, language arts and science.  I caught up, but it took over a year and required lots of tutoring, several hours of week of extra work, and being placed in special ed math classes when I returned to public school.

When we first started to home school my son, he's eight years old, I tried a very structured set up.  He was quickly bored and so was I.  I tried unschooling for a few months.  That didn't work for either of us.  He has little natural interest in math or reading.  He only wanted to play video games and learn about insects.  I'm thrilled foster his interest in science, but when he plays video games a lot he gets frustrated, grumpy, and miserable.  He doesn't want to leave the house or do anything else.

For the last year, we've used a mixed approach.  He has a certain amount of math, reading, and phonics he has to do before he play video games.  Science is pretty much child lead and if he expresses an interest in doing/trying something I try foster it.  When we limit his video game playing, he's interested in life.  He plays with his friends, does martial arts, practice piano, and will at least attempt new things,  We are trying to teach him to self limit video games, just like I'm trying to self limit my internet time.

[newcastlemama]

I thought we would be unschoolers too then it seemed like ds did better with structure and goals. He is a "highly-spirited child" so it makes sense to me. I tried a curriculum that was not even totally hardcore structure-wise but that was too much. So now we have settled into what Nightowl does. We cover the basics daily in short lessons and then do more child led in everything else. He also has meltdowns with videogames/media time so dh and I do keep that to a minimum for him.

I agree with Greenmama that we have to parent the child we have..I am finding that, as motherhood journey continues, I have to be very open to change to do what is best for us.

[elizawill]

yes, we have become more structured along the way.  we've never been unschoolers, but i do believe education should be slow & gradual....therefore, we don't begin anything academic until my children are closer to age 6.  then, it just progresses each year with what we teach, how much time we spend on academics, and what my expectations are.  with each year, we add more and increase our studies.  each family is different of course, but this is what has worked well in our's.

[Climbing Rose]

It's great to hear how it is working for others!

I have a little happy update for us. 

This is the first time we have ever stuck with structure for very long at all- because in the past it always seemed frustrating after a few days (or less)!

But it has been a few weeks now- and after we got over the hump of just doing it, it has been going really well.  DC are actually remembering their math facts since we are working on them on a daily basis, and so are able to move on to more complicated (fun) math concepts.  DD is completely picking up the pace in her reading since we are doing it every day, so instead of getting hung up on sounds, the words are coming together for her.... They are all learning so much, that it is like a snowball effect and they want to do *more* and learn more.

Of course, this is probably the honeymoon period too, but honestly with seeing the leaps and bounds they have made, I definitely want to keep the 'structure' we have found.

I think the reason they didn't like the structure before, was just because they were frustrated with their general lack of understanding of what we were trying to study because it had always been so long since we had studied it, etc.... and not that they were upset at the actual structure itself, yk?  Because they really seem to be thriving now.

[SandyBeachBums]

We did. Our kids got to appoint where they wanted more of something. They seem to need it, too. We have had some set backs here and there. Just the push and pull. I get a little too excited. We started to use a VA last year. We get to decide our curriculum and plans. But, it left us accountable on a weekly and monthly basis. It was a bit of an adjustment. But, I think we are doing well and "catching up".

This year my olders started doing more on their own. They are doing pretty good. I feel busy with another on the way, but it sounds like you are, too. My oldest is going to be in High School next year. I am surprised at how he has changed over this year and I think he will do much better than I thought.

So, I wouldn't worry. Just keep adding that time in. Do anything you can together. Keep Science and History topics together. Do math with any students that are on the same level. See if an older will read to a younger. My olders are loving Teaching Textbooks. It self grades up to Algebra, I believe. SO, there is no work for me.