Having a hard time merging finances

[Jane91]

My husband and I are finally merging finances after marriage, and I'm finding it very difficult emotionally.  We are happily married but I'm still struggling with this.

I am the major breadwinner, and both of us have continued to work after our girls were born this past spring.  I have always made a very good wage and have been very independent for the past 12 years.

I am feeling a loss of independence, control and freedom (which is what money has always emotionally meant to me). 

While I'm not ashamed or embarrassed by my spending choices, I hate this feeling that my husband will now be "checking up" on them.  Before, if I thought the girls needed new shoes or a new toy or I wanted to eat out for lunch -- it's all been invisible spending to my husband.  I hate that he will now have the ability to review and comment on items.

Also, I know I am feeling a bit guilty -- we are doing renovations on the house, and we are borrowing a bit against my 401(k) just to get us over the hump (will be repaid in the same year the loan is made).  I do have a chunk of change from prior to my marriage set aside in a separate bank account that I have not touched since our marriage.  That money would mean that we would not need the loan -- however, using it would essentially convert a pre-marital asset (mine alone in case of divorce) into a joint asset (improvements to the jointly owned house), so I didn't suggest using it.  That seems fair to me, since no one is being shorted by the loan/repayment (which is against my 401(k) and not his anyway), but I wonder if I am coming at this whole thing from the wrong angle (rather than joint love and trust, worrying instead about the worst case scenario). 

Anyone have any suggestions about how to feel better about this situation, or how to come at it from a more positive angle?

[AnalogWife]

I'm reading a lot of trust issues.  I myself am a somewhat distrustful person, but when it comes to my husband and my marriage, distrust is something I don't even want to afford.  We got married in the Catholic Church where they make you take this day-long retreat before the ceremony, and in that retreat they advised that the money should be going into one big pot.  After living together for 3 years (after having known one another for 6 weeks) and having some of our utilities shut off because we couldn't get our goofy money power-struggle situations straightened out, the Big Pot was sooooo appealing to both of us (and DH is far from Catholic.)  Nowadays I'm a SAHM with a child with a disability and DH is the main breadwinner, I don't feel at all guilty spending "his" money because I know it is there for all of us, and he's happy to provide it.

I would definitely be uncomfortable if someone/my spouse was hovering over and critiquing my spending.  My DH and I spend very little frivolously, and I know I definitely spend more than he does because I'm the one in charge of the finances---he loves it, he doesn't have to think about when the light bill is due because he knows I'm taking care of it.  He's at the point now where he's happy if I buy a stack of Garanamals for DS or if I go out with girlfriends once in a blue moon because it means our household is working.  Another thing we discussed before going into marriage, is that divorce is not an option which creates a healthy, loving, respectful, TRUSTFUL atmosphere for our family----hiding a large sum of money in case of divorce is a predicament I don't want to be in, I'm sorry you're going through this.  Do you think you could trust your husband?

[LifewithSage]

I also sense a lot of distrust.  I have to ask, has your husband given you any reason to believe that he would critique your daily expenses?  While sharing money generally means talking to one another before making big purchases, those little everyday purchases (including buying the girls shoes or eating your lunch out) are generally ones in which no discussion is needed.  However, once you pool your money I would strongly suggest putting together a budget (sit down and do this together so that no one feels as though they are getting the shaft).  That way, as long as your everyday purchases are within budget, there should be no discussion regarding it. 

Does your husband know about your savings account?  Another reason I sense a trust issue is that you'd rather take a loan out on your 401k (which is never a great financial decision if you have other means of paying for whatever it is you need) than use money that is seemingly sitting in a bank account earning very little interest. 

I am also the breadwinner in my family.  I always have been.  In fact, now that we have kids DH only works part-time to get out of the house and give my mom some time with her grandkids.  So the wage earning disparity is large.  I've always felt as though our marriage was a partnership and our lives were meant to be shared, including our finances.  I've always approached it from a standpoint that we divorce is not an option and therefore there is no need to plan for in case of one.  I realize that this is not the case nor is this easy for everyone, but this is just my feelings on it.  I also don't believe that our partnership is 50/50.  There are things that where he pulls the bulk of the weight (like cleaning, child rearing, etc) and things that I pull more weight on (like paychecks, laundry, night-time parenting). 

So, now that I'm done with my ramblings... is there anyway to combine your money and then each of you have a small "mad money" account?  Each of you could have the funds deposited directly from your paycheck into a seperate account to be used for personal purchases that you don't wish the other to know about or be allowed to critique?  I have friends that use this method and it works very well for them.  Plus, they like the convenience of being able to buy gifts for one another without the other noticing a charge on the credit card or whatever.

I really hope you can find peace with whatever decision you two make.

[Jane91]

Just to clarify -- the chunk of change isn't hidden.  My husband is aware of all my retirement and other savings. I'm just not excited about converting my pre-marital assets (where in a divorce I could make the claim that I should be solely entitled to them, as they were earned before my marriage) into joint assets that are 50/50 his.

Part of me feels that I am not being trusting in the way that I should be in my marriage (and I have absolutely no reason to distrust my husband).  The other part says that I am a woman, and a woman with small children, and that I should not make myself any more economically vulnerable than I can avoid.

I probably need to not assume that my husband will be difficult about my spending before he actually is -- but I just know (knowing him and certain differences on spending, etc.) that its going to be an issue.  I'm going to feel like a small child, and resent the heck out of it.

[LifewithSage]

I think you probably need to sit down and have a talk with him then.  I would air your concerns and discuss setting a budget for your spending and his and make a rule that if you are within your budget then there can be no discussion or nagging about purchases.  I truly think it's natural within any marriage or partnership that one person is a bigger spender than the other.  It's just different personalities and needs/wants.

The husband and I have a very stern pact that as long as we are within budget every month then nobody is to say anything about how we spend our money. 

[honeybunmom]

My dh and I are in counseling and moving towards financial transparency.  I, too, am the primary breadwinner.  However, while I know he does not pay close attention, he's not oblivious to my purchases because most of them come in via the mail.  And he is at home to receive the mail and I'm not.  Plus, I usually discuss the purchases with him, albeit after the fact.

Does your husband question you about these purchases now?  If not, what makes you think he will begin to do so?

I suspect that this is going to be a process for you.  For those of us who have major trust issues based on prior life experience, at the end of the day, I don't know that it is anything more that sheer will that moves us from distrust to trust.  That, and your partner's behaviour and your ability as a couple to have open discussion about things.  For us, a lack of open communication has only served to continue to fuel my distrust of others around finances.  Recently, though (after 6 mos of weekly counseling) my husband is beginning to behave in a way that reads "full partner" rather than room mate.  And this is making me more open and hopeful for our next step of adding him to my main account.

I would also consider whether there are any issues in your current relationship that feed these emotions and concerns.  Obviously, if there are, they will have to be addressed jointly.  If these issues are carry overs from your prior marriage, then, gently, it may be that the onus is on you to deal with these issues. 

Oh, and a more positive angle would be to consider this as an additional step down the path of becoming a unit rather than two individuals.  I'm very excited to finally be headed toward the oneness I was hoping to experience in marriage.

[Jane91]

Thanks Ashli -- I think we're definitely going to have to have that talk.  I wish I could be more trusting in the way you describe, but I have seen too many friends and acquaintances blind-sided by divorce and its economic fall out.  I think we're just going to have to talk and keep talking about it, to make sure the issue isn't damaging.  Fortunately, my husband is very laid back and a great guy. 

I totally hear you on the "big spender" part -- my husband loves picking up his work clothes at Meijer while doing a grocery shopping run, and will only spend the $ on a Great Clips haircut after I've been annoying him for a month about his hair being too long.  My work requires suits, and a very professional appearance (many women have regular manicures and designer bags, while, for example ownership of a certain "level" of car is expected as part of the work culture once you reach a certain station at the office). 

Edited by Jane91 - 1/10/11 at 2:05pm

[LifewithSage]

Originally Posted by Jane91 

Thanks Ashli -- I think we're definitely going to have to have that talk.  I wish I could be more trusting in the way you describe, but I have seen too many friends and acquaintances blind-sided by divorce and its economic fall out.  I think we're just going to have to talk and keep talking about it, to make sure the issue isn't damaging.  Fortunately, my husband is very laid back and a great guy. 

I totally hear you on the "big spender" part -- my husband loves picking up his work clothes at Meijer while doing a grocery shopping run, and will only spend the $ on a Great Clips haircut after I've been annoying him for a month about his hair being too long.  My work requires suits, and a very professional appearance (many women have regular manicures and designer bags, while, for example ownership of a certain "level" of car is expected as part of the work culture once you reach a certain station at the office). 

I often wonder if it doesn't have to do with the way I was raised.  My parents always shared a bank account and so it was something that was absolutely normal to me.  Plus, we were married so young (I was 22 and he was 25) that we didn't really have an pre-marital assets, which makes a HUGE difference.  It's much easier for me to put forth the kind of trust I do since I've never been financially independent from him.  Plus, it also helps that none of our friends have had messy financial divorces, so I have stayed blissfully ignorant to that.  I might feel the same way as you, especially if we'd never shared an account, if I had seen the fallout from friends or family.

LOL I'm the big spender in our household as well.  My husband has his splurges, but maybe since he doesn't work as much and isn't in a corporate environment, doesn't see the need to constantly churn his clothes wardrobe and handbag stash to keep up with the latest trends.  IDK... or maybe it's just because he's a guy LOL.  Thankfully, I now work at a very small company and the days of needing to wear expensive suits and carry crazy pricey handbags are no more... although, my obsession with handbags is a biproduct of that culture that I have yet to give up LOL
 

[Smithie]

This household is 100% financially combined, I run all the money stuff, and I would accept nothing less. If this guy who promised me forever used the phrase "premarital asset" in front of me, it would be nuclear war. In point of fact, our emergency fund is an account that I don't think my husband can access (he's on it, but doesn't know the account numbers or passwords or have an ATM card for it). I'm a SAHM making a small salary on the side. Running the money is part of MY protection for the day that my high-earning DH meets a lovely stewardess and decides not to come home. 

But I am not your husband. If he's a laid-back guy, then I think you're borrowing trouble. If/when he comments on your purchases, say "look, honey, money squabbles freak me out. I've managed my spending responsibly for 12 years and that's not going to change. Please don't quiz me on the bank statements, I freaking hate it." If that's sufficient, then just spend the next couple of years getting over your trust issues, and be glad that you've picked a laid-back guy who will give you the time and space you need to adjust to being in a family. 

[texmati]

Aren't these two statements contradicting each other?

Originally Posted by Smithie 

This household is 100% financially combined, I run all the money stuff, and I would accept nothing less. If this guy who promised me forever used the phrase "premarital asset" in front of me, it would be nuclear war. In point of fact, our emergency fund is an account that I don't think my husband can access (he's on it, but doesn't know the account numbers or passwords or have an ATM card for it). I'm a SAHM making a small salary on the side. Running the money is part of MY protection for the day that my high-earning DH meets a lovely stewardess and decides not to come home. 

But I am not your husband. If he's a laid-back guy, then I think you're borrowing trouble. If/when he comments on your purchases, say "look, honey, money squabbles freak me out. I've managed my spending responsibly for 12 years and that's not going to change. Please don't quiz me on the bank statements, I freaking hate it." If that's sufficient, then just spend the next couple of years getting over your trust issues, and be glad that you've picked a laid-back guy who will give you the time and space you need to adjust to being in a family. 

[texmati]

OP, I really don't think these are financial issues, but intimacy issues. You want some level of separation from your husband-- you want to spend without his input, you want to keep money on the side in case of divorce. That's fine as long as he's on board. But if you are trying to join your assets, I don't really think it's fair.

Just to let you know how we think of it positively---

We have joint (really joint) everything, and we operate our finances with a shared future in mind. I had money saved when I came into the marriage and it was used for a down payment on our home. It was an asset I brought to our marriage and was used to better our future. My husband brought his work ethic, his college degree and his much keener social sense-- all of which have benefited our family considerably more than the 50k or so that I brought in. You can divide, and calculate etc but in the end, what really matters is how much you add up to as a whole. Yes sometimes you'll have 'answer' to your husband on some spending, but it's no different from any other commitment he makes to you (housework, childcare, girls, etc). This will bring you closer, and make you stronger.

Right now you have take a loan from your 401k-- hurting your shared future, to continue to protect a future where you aren't married. Hopefully soon you can start investing in your future together.

[Maluhia]

It certainly seems less like a financial issue and much more like a trust issue connected either to your current spouse or to your fears from the experiences of others, a previous marriage or something of the sort.  It honestly sounds like you are not emotionally ready to merge finances with your husband. 

[happysmileylady]

 If this guy who promised me forever used the phrase "premarital asset" in front of me, it would be nuclear war

Yeah, this.

Like others have posted I sense a lot of distrust.  Being worried about converting a pre-marital assset to a joint assent and the implications of that in case of divorce really sounds like a HUGE trust issue to me.  And, being worried about your spouse, the person you are sharing the rest of your life and your body with, worrying about that person being able to see how much you are spending on lunch out, yeah, that signals distrust to me.

[Jane91]

Strangely enough, I just spent a little time this morning talking to a friend who is spending today trying to keep her sister and her 5 kids off the streets and out of a homeless shelter.  Her sister's ex has not paid a dime of child support in 10 years.  I'm sure when she married him she never thought he would refuse to work and refuse to support his children.

"If this guy who promised me forever used the phrase "premarital asset" in front of me, it would be nuclear war." ."

In a situation where you have chosen to become economically dependent on your husband, I can see why it would.

However, both my husband and I continue to work, we have both spent substantial (and roughly equivalent) monies saved prior to marriage on our home, a car that meets our family's needs, medical spending for the girls, etc., etc.  We came to marriage at 36 and 39 years old, both with prior savings and in his case a small inheritance.

I have saved more prior to marriage because I made some different choices, choices that my husband could have easily made given his abilities and background.  He chose the 9-5, free on weekends, don't have to think about the job after you clock out route.  I chose a job that requires me to work a number of weekends, long hours (including occasional overnights) and a level of responsibility that sometimes wakes me up in the middle of the night worried about whether I handled an issue appropriately. 

I am 100% fine with his benefiting economically (which he is) from my job while we are married.  I benefit from his job as well, while we both benefit even more from all the other intangible things we bring to each other within the marriage (which is a source of great happiness to both of us).

I am not sure why, if we were to divorce, he should be entitled to half of my labor and of my savings that occurred prior to my marriage.  Further, I'm not sure why I should somehow have to make that available to him now as "proof" of my love and trust.  In part, I feel I owe it to my kids to make sure that no matter what happens within our marriage that they will be well taken care of and protected and these pre-marital savings could help ensure that.

I do agree that I need to work on getting comfortable with merging our current ongoing finances, and I think I can get there (though we may have some real rip-roaring "discussions" in the meantime).

[Momsteader]

OP, I do see where you're coming from and I don't see it as a huge trust issue. I know how it is to be independent with your money and how it feels different to be all combined.

Dh and I were independent as well before marriage, each set in our ways.  So, our solution was to have one joint 'pot' for salaries to come into and then two separate accounts attached to it--one for each.  So, we essentially have a 'bills' account, his account, and my account. We also each have our own IRAs and he has 401K and other retirement savings through work. I am a SAHM with a small at home business and I contribute my max to my IRA each year. We own a rental and this also has a separate account where we get/pay the mortgage on that house. We also have an emergency fund savings account. We are all on every acount, though I never go and scrutinize his account and I have no idea if he does mine as he never says anything to me about it.

Our money goes into the 'pot', then we each get an 'allowance' to our own accounts for personal use. The main account is for all bills--rent, utilities, family purchases, things for the children, etc.

Aside from each of us wanting some financial independence, our other reason for doing this is that he travels a lot and so do I. We aren't great about checking the joint account daily for a balance. He does the main budgeting and keeps things pretty tight in the main account $$ wise. So, it's easier for us each to have our 'own' accounts for those little daily/weekly personal purchases so we don't have to check the balance to see what the other has spent--we know since it's our responsibility on our account. And, it also means that we can do what we wish with the money. I think this works well when both parties are financially responsible and have been on their own before. I understand what you mean about having your purchases critiqued even if they haven't been. It's just that 'feeling'.

I might buy something for the boys from my 'allowance' but I'd not ask to be 'reimbursed' from the main account and he wouldn't either. It just all balances out, and saves stress for us. We know our big bills are all covered and we each have our spending money. We know how much we have. If we want to purchase something personal that is big $$ wise, we could talk about it and get the money from the main account if it was something that warranted that, or we could just save ourselves and buy it no questions asked.

Example, I haven't been working my business very much in the last year due to our cross country move, and so I haven't had very much to add lately. I need a new laptop. In the past, I'd probably have just worked some more and let dh know that I was going to pull some money for the new laptop, and that would have been fine. Not being able to do that, instead I saved some of the allowance money and then we also agreed it was a need and the rest was funded from the main bills account like any other bigger ticket purchase would be.   Another, dh bought a Kindle recently since he spends $5-10 a trip on reading materials. He spent from his allowance as it wasn't a huge expense and it was already something he was pulling out on a regular basis (the reading $$ each trip).

[annethcz]

I don't know, OP I can understand wanting to hold onto pre-marital assets.  It's a fine line between preparing for a shared future, while maintaining some sort of back-up plan in case of a worst case scenario. 

My DH and I have completely shared finances.  Joint accounts, the whole shebang.  But I can also say that I will likely be receiving a significant inheritance in the next few years (my wealthy grandparents are in very poor health), and when that happens I do plan to open a separate account for those funds.  I was a SAHM for 10 years, I now work part-time 13.5 hours/week, and I have 4 kids.  I love my DH, but since we're on track with many of our financial goals, I will feel comfortable keeping the money in an account just for me, as my back-up plan.  DH is aware of this and is fine with it.

I think the important thing is that both of you are on the same page and that there is an open dialog between you.

[texmati]

Originally Posted by Jane91 

Strangely enough, I just spent a little time this morning talking to a friend who is spending today trying to keep her sister and her 5 kids off the streets and out of a homeless shelter.  Her sister's ex has not paid a dime of child support in 10 years.  I'm sure when she married him she never thought he would refuse to work and refuse to support his children.

"If this guy who promised me forever used the phrase "premarital asset" in front of me, it would be nuclear war." ."

In a situation where you have chosen to become economically dependent on your husband, I can see why it would.

However, both my husband and I continue to work, we have both spent substantial (and roughly equivalent) monies saved prior to marriage on our home, a car that meets our family's needs, medical spending for the girls, etc., etc.  We came to marriage at 36 and 39 years old, both with prior savings and in his case a small inheritance.

I have saved more prior to marriage because I made some different choices, choices that my husband could have easily made given his abilities and background.  He chose the 9-5, free on weekends, don't have to think about the job after you clock out route.  I chose a job that requires me to work a number of weekends, long hours (including occasional overnights) and a level of responsibility that sometimes wakes me up in the middle of the night worried about whether I handled an issue appropriately. 

I am 100% fine with his benefiting economically (which he is) from my job while we are married.  I benefit from his job as well, while we both benefit even more from all the other intangible things we bring to each other within the marriage (which is a source of great happiness to both of us).

I am not sure why, if we were to divorce, he should be entitled to half of my labor and of my savings that occurred prior to my marriage.  Further, I'm not sure why I should somehow have to make that available to him now as "proof" of my love and trust.  In part, I feel I owe it to my kids to make sure that no matter what happens within our marriage that they will be well taken care of and protected and these pre-marital savings could help ensure that.

I do agree that I need to work on getting comfortable with merging our current ongoing finances, and I think I can get there (though we may have some real rip-roaring "discussions" in the meantime).

It's not wrong-- not wrong at all to feel this way as long as you are both upfront and agree to it. That being said, it seems like you are hesitant to also be on the same page regarding your current finances (spending etc). I would give some thought as to how much of your current relationship you are willing to sacrifice in order to protect a yourself in the future.

[AnalogWife]

Again, I'm thankful that I don't have those fears of "what if something happens."  My husband is IN my future and even if something went horribly awry, I trust that he wouldn't try to stiff us.  These scenarios don't even run through my mind, perhaps because I don't have some cautiously protected lump of money itching the back of my brain. 

[Smithie]

"Aren't these two statements contradicting each other?"

Yes, totally. I didn't realize the situation until I was sitting here typing and thinking about where we keep our $$$. 

But I'm not too fussed about it either way, because the point, for me and DH, is to have everything in common and to know what we have. Were we to divorce, I couldn't (not to mention wouldn't) try to stiff him on his half of the EF. He knows how much is there. There is a discrepancy, though, in that right now he could not bleed it to spend on Helga the Pilates Instructor without me immediately knowing, and I could probably bleed it for a year buying stuff Swen the Reiki Master and DH wouldn't have a clue.  So maybe I should give him a little tutorial in our financial usernames and passwords. Or, I could just decide not to be a thieving cheating UAV. Or both. 

OP, you and I took very different life paths. I married my husband when he was 20 years old and I was 22. We didn't have separate adult lives, and never will unless one of us dies too soon. So it's kind of obvious that neither one of would treasure the notion of creating separate financial assets as some kind of breakaway from a household that has always been an interrelated economic unit. If you make different decisions about your assets, well, I can see why. 

[Jane91]

"Again, I'm thankful that I don't have those fears of "what if something happens."  My husband is IN my future and even if something went horribly awry, I trust that he wouldn't try to stiff us.  These scenarios don't even run through my mind, perhaps because I don't have some cautiously protected lump of money itching the back of my brain. " 

I have always been a pragmatist, which has been reinforced by my job which is focused, in part, on advising clients on how to mitigate or eliminate risk.

I have also always been a planner.  This is not something that is constantly running through my mind -- its more of a, if this happens, then what?  Then I put together a general plan, and then leave it at that.  I also have general plans and supplies for certain household emergencies or if I get stuck in a snowdrift with two small infants, etc., etc., but I don't worry every day if the house is going to burn down.

I find the idea that a woman, who is responsible for the well-being of small children and is not independently wealthy, has failed to give any thought to what would happen in case of a divorce to be extremely troubling.  Some of the reasons why children and women are more economically vulnerable are within women's control.