Is there a way to get out of an upside down car loan?

[MellowMama]

Back in 2007/08?, we traded in a minivan that we were having problems with and couldn't get fixed (no one could seem to figure out what was wrong with it and I spent MONTHS trying to no avail) in for another used minivan.  I can't even get into specifics, because it was a horrible deal for us and we didn't know better, but we ended up with a 5 year loan on it with a huge monthly payment.  At the time, we thought that we could afford it and really wanted the van, so we did it.  Stupid, I know.  Fast forward to 2011, and we cannot afford this payment, like, at all.  We also still owe TWICE what the car is worth now (115,000 miles), and we have 2 more years to pay on it.  The payment is late every month, and my parents have helped us with it more times than I care to mention.  I'm sure the nice ladies at the bank are sick of calling us all the time.  Our credit is seriously trashed now, but we're just trying to get by at this point.  We had a ton of CC debt that we settled/paid off within the past year (inheritance/help from parents), so we are debt free except this car payment and our mortgage.  The problem is our income vs. expenses and this huge car payment.  I work 2 jobs from home so that we don't have to pay for childcare, and DH works full time with as much overtime as he can get (however, he is involved in a custody battle, so any "extra" money is going to pay his lawyer her $15,000 fee).  I don't see any possibility of either of us getting a second or third job, so the income is probably not going to change.     

DH and I have looked at the figures, and we just don't make enough money to cover the car payment and still pay our other bills/feed our family.  The problem is that I have to have a vehicle in order to do my job, plus I have to transport the kids to and from school, etc.  DH works for 24-48 hours at a time (paramedic) and commutes to another city for his job, so we really have to be a 2 car household.  

His car is paid for, but this van is killing us.  The question now is, what should we do about the car?  We can't sell it, because we owe twice what it's worth.  We can't try to find someone to take over payments, because no one in their right mind would pay that much for a 6 year old car with high miles, LOL.  We can't trade it in on something smaller to get a lower monthly payment because we wouldn't want to roll the balance on the van into yet another car, plus our credit is destroyed.  So, what is the solution?  Let it get repossessed?  I absolutely do not want to do that, and I don't think it would "help" the situation, but that's what DH thinks we should do.  If that happened, not only would our credit take another huge hit, but then I wouldn't have a vehicle (and I certainly don't have any $$ to buy another one), and it just wouldn't be good.  I don't want that to happen.  I don't think the bank would refinance or anything like that either.  Is there a way out of this, or are we stuck in this situation for the next 2 years?  Any advice?  Thanks!  

[texmati]

Well... really, the only way out of it is to pay it off somehow. What do the numbers look like? Is the car worth 1k or 10k? Is the loan 2k or 20k?

One option is to sell the car, and see ifyou can get the bank to finance the difference. It's a smart move for them because they will be getting about half their money now, instead of a repossession.

Failing that, do you have any other assets? Could you sell both cars and pay off this loan and still have enough for some cheap cars?

[Drummer's Wife]

You could do a voluntary repo and then pay cash for another (much cheaper) vehicle. I know that sounds like an awful thing to do, but I just mention that b/c you say your credit is already trashed. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you can do. Good luck figuring it out.

Eta: thinking about it, giving the car back probably isn't a good idea b/c the bank will still come after you for the difference - which stinks b/c it's the entire worth of the car, right? So you'll be stuck paying off a car you dot have anymore. I hope someone has good advice for you.

[VisionaryMom]

So, you have essentially a mortgage, living expenses, a van, and attorney's fees. You guys have 1 FT and 2 PT jobs between you, and you cannot afford the van. I don't know what to say about the van because it depends on the specific numbers, interest rate,  your credit, etc. What I would look at, though, is whether it makes more sense for you guys to seek out other jobs with higher pay or look for a different living situation. If things are that tight, then you're going to run into this problem again and again with other expenses that crop up. Is your rent/mortgage reasonable compared to your pay?

[Caneel]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife 

You could do a voluntary repo and then pay cash for another (much cheaper) vehicle. I know that sounds like an awful thing to do, but I just mention that b/c you say your credit is already trashed. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you can do. Good luck figuring it out.

Eta: thinking about it, giving the car back probably isn't a good idea b/c the bank will still come after you for the difference - which stinks b/c it's the entire worth of the car, right? So you'll be stuck paying off a car you dot have anymore. I hope someone has good advice for you.

 I used to work at a bank that did a big business in vehicle loans and dealing with problem loans/write down was part of my job.

Voluntary repos are very common.  People would regularly walk into the branch and hand over the keys.  

How it worked with normal vehicle loans is the bank would then send that vehicle to auction, use the proceeds to pay down the loan and right off the balance.  With normal vehcile loans, the vehicle is the only collateral and the bank can't go after the borrower for the difference.  Yes, they can ask for it but in my experience, the bank has no legal right to anything above and beyond the actual vehicle.   The unpaid balance will be a black mark against your credit but if your credit is trashed already, how much worse will it make it? 

OP - did anyone co-sign the loan?  If so, the bank would absolutely go after any co-signers for the difference and when that happens, the co-signers must pay.

Probably the most important question - is this car loan from a regular bank or a finance company?  or a buy-here, pay-here type of place?  A finance company or buy-here, pay-here may have the note structured differently where they could enter a judgement against you for unpaid balances. 

[texmati]

They should be able to sue her for the difference. If I have money in the bank, and just give back the keys, I can't imagine that the only recourse for the bank is to put something on my credit report.
 

Originally Posted by Caneel 

How it worked with normal vehicle loans is the bank would then send that vehicle to auction, use the proceeds to pay down the loan and right off the balance.  With normal vehcile loans, the vehicle is the only collateral and the bank can't go after the borrower for the difference.  Yes, they can ask for it but in my experience, the bank has no legal right to anything above and beyond the actual vehicle.   The unpaid balance will be a black mark against your credit but if your credit is trashed already, how much worse will it make it? 

[Caneel]

It depends on how the note is written. 

The normal notes for loans secured by titled vehicles to regular consumers were nonrecourse loans, meaning the bank could only seize the collateral, nothing more.  I never saw a consumer car/truck loan with recourse, the right of the bank to go after the borrower's other assets. 

(This is probably too much information but banks will often purchase gap insurance to cover their losses in case of repossession.  The bank I worked at provided financing for 10 or so very large new/used dealerships.  When a particularly iffy borrower came through the system, the bank would buy insurance to cover the difference between the loan balance and vehicle value.) 

Commercial loans for car/trucks are a difference story, those are typically written to include the personal guaranty and/or a recourse clause so the bank can go after the borrower for the difference.

[Momsteader]

I would let them repo it as there will be added fees. I'd definitely talk with the financing agent, because you could end up owing a bunch of fees if it's repo'd. Selling a car at auction is going to get perhaps 1/4 or less of the current value after the bank takes the fees. Say, the car is worth 10K, you owe 18K, and the bank get 4K for it, but has 1500 in fees, You'd get only 2500 and still owe 15500 on the car you don't even have whereas if you sold it privately, you could probably get at least 7500 for it. Again, fake numbers...but just looking at a scenario.

Probably your best bet would be to sell the car and finance the balance, but not sure if that would be possible with your credit.

Do you have any extras? Cable? Cell phones? You are in crisis mode. You should have NOTHING extra--not even organic food at this point. What good is 'good' food if you can't keep your house/car. You say you settled CC debt, why did you choose that over the car when you need the car? Too late now to change it, but just wondering.  CC's have such a minimum payment that yes, you're not getting anywhere, but you could just pay on them and keep them current without paying down the principal.

You need to re-evaluate jobs as well. You say your hubby is a medic/emt. That should be decent pay. Is your mortgage huge? Are you upside down on that as well? How far is 'another city' for your dh? Is it a 30 min commute? an hour commute?  Would it make sense to live there?  If he's gone for 24-48 hours, you could take him to work/pick him up. YES not convenient, but that it what you'd be down to if you lose the van without replacement. I'm assuming you have no savings to purchase even a $500 or 1000 car for you.

[texmati]

wow! I had no idea. I just did some quick googling, and apparently the state can require lenders to offer these non-recourse loans. OP-- I'd definitely find out what kind of loan you have.

I'm pretty sure that we had a recourse loan on our car (never borrowing for a car again!), and that the bank asked us if we wanted to pay for 'gap insurance' to cover the remainder of the loan if the car was totaled.

Originally Posted by Caneel 

It depends on how the note is written. 

The normal notes for loans secured by titled vehicles to regular consumers were nonrecourse loans, meaning the bank could only seize the collateral, nothing more.  I never saw a consumer car/truck loan with recourse, the right of the bank to go after the borrower's other assets. 

(This is probably too much information but banks will often purchase gap insurance to cover their losses in case of repossession.  The bank I worked at provided financing for 10 or so very large new/used dealerships.  When a particularly iffy borrower came through the system, the bank would buy insurance to cover the difference between the loan balance and vehicle value.) 

Commercial loans for car/trucks are a difference story, those are typically written to include the personal guaranty and/or a recourse clause so the bank can go after the borrower for the difference.

[velochic]

Unfortunately for the OP, Florida is a recourse state, so she may be in a bit of a pickle.

OP - I don't know what the answer is.  I think you're probably liable for the amount of the loan, not the cost of the vehicle.  I think you're going to have to get creative in ways to save money to afford the payment.  You said that you had tons of credit card debt that you took care of with an inheritance and that your parents are helping you out a lot.  It sounds like you are simply living beyond your means and have done so in the past.  You have to figure out a way to trim costs.  The gals around here can help with a dose of reality if you post your budget.  You say you can't increase income.  You have to reduce expenses.  Period.  I don't think you can get out of the loan, but check into that.  Still, you will have to have cash for a vehicle.  Where will that come from.  Best of luck.  It's a tough situation.

[MellowMama]

Thanks so much for the ideas and advice!  To answer some of the questions, the car loan is from a regular bank, but I do think we would be held responsible for the balance, because I remember them trying to sell us gap insurance.  The van is worth $9,000 (and needs about $2,000 of work done, mostly cosmetic but some mechanical as well), and our remaining payments total around $13,500 (so it's not twice the value like I thought).  Selling it and financing the difference might help a little as far as the payments go, but that would leave us still making monthly payments but not having the van.  I also don't think the bank would be interested in a new loan to us because of our credit.  

Our mortgage is about $1,100 per month, which includes insurance and taxes, so it's about the same as renting here (we have 3 kids, ages 12, 9, and almost 5, 2 dogs, one being 80 pounds, and 2 cats...our rental options would be seriously limited).  We bought our house in 2003, so we've been paying on it for 8 years (30 year fixed).  In that time, the value of our house dropped by 50%, so there's really no good way out of the house either since we are upside down in that as well, nor do we want to give up our house (and it is a very modest, 1300 SF house built in 1987 in a working class neighborhood, nothing fancy), especially since there's no way we'd get approved for another mortgage while our kids are still young, so we'd be stuck renting until our kids are grown, basically.  DH does commute to work, but it's different every month.  It's anywhere from 15-20 minutes to the station at the county line, to 1 hour for the furthest station...most of the time, it is a 30-40 minute drive for him.  Our house is right off of the interstate that DH takes to work, so it's a good location for us, plus DD is in a good school here, my job is here (I work from home and deliver the work daily), etc.      

As for the job situation, my husband went through years of school to become a paramedic, and he's worked for the same county for 10 years and will get retirement benefits.  We also have really good health and dental insurance for the whole family through the county.  He is not in a position to get a higher paying job (his college education is specific to being a paramedic), and the stability and benefits of his current job are worth hanging onto.  I own my own business, but the income is kind of "feast or famine".  Sometimes I can make $500-$1,000 in a month, and then I can have 3 months of making 0.  I never know, and when I do make money, it is always used to catch up on the car payment since it's usually at least a month late, or other bills that we've neglected to pay so that we can buy gas or groceries.  I also work part time for my family's company where I used to work full time and make a decent living, but they are hurting in this economy and they cannot offer me my full time job back.  They are just barely staying afloat.  I do not have a college degree or any marketable skills, so my job prospects would be in the minimum wage realm.  I am already getting a regular paycheck from my part time job that I do from home, plus making some money with my business.  It would not make sense for me to get a low paying full time job and then have to pay for childcare, etc.  High paying jobs for unqualified applicants simply do not exist here, and I don't have the time or money to go back to college.  I keep hoping that I will be able to get my old job back next year, when my youngest starts kindergarten, but that all depends on whether or not there is a huge upswing in the economy.  I could possibly get a third job at that point, as long as the hours coincided with the kids being in school, but then I would have to start on my other 2 jobs at 3:00 in the afternoon and work instead of taking care of my kids, and I don't think that would work.  I am on my own with them half of the time, so I'm it.    

The reason we settled our CC debt was because we had good credit back in the day, but were living way beyond our means for a while, mostly when our youngest was a baby and I had no income for a while.  We had a series of bad things happen, we were in a really bad place emotionally and with our marriage, and our finances spiraled out of control.  Most of what we charged was stuff like gas and groceries, thinking we could pay it off next payday, whatever.  Then something else would come up, and our balances got out of control.  It was like a snowball that took off, and we ended up unable to even pay all the minimums.  DH, in a deep depression, decided to throw his hands up and STOP paying the credit card bills.  I know it was my responsibility too, but I just stuck my head in the sand because he had ALWAYS handled the bills, and I let him.  When he said "We can't afford to pay our bills, so I'm not going to anymore", I thought it was an empty threat, but he really did it.  The late fees and interest started piling up, and then the non stop phone calls started.  The phone was ringing from 8 am until 9 pm, everyday.  It got to the point that some of the creditors were about to start legal action against us.  My dad had inherited a large sum of money from my grandmother (who I was very close with and her death contributed to my emotional state), and he offered to help us settle with our creditors instead of us filing for bankruptcy.  Since the car loan doesn't have a high interest rate like our credit cards did, he felt that it would be best to settle the debts and be done with them rather than pay off the car loan.  Now that the credit cards have been settled, we are on our own with the car.         

We do have cable, internet, and phone.  Internet is a necessity because I have to have it to work.  I have to have a phone for work as well, although work will not pay for either expense.  Cable we could do without, so I will look into cancelling it.  It is bundled in with our phone and internet service and we are under contract, so I'm not sure how that would work.  We try to eat inexpensively, but that is a challenge.  I know there are some places we could cut back.  I think it is probably best for us to keep hanging on with the car loan for as long as we can rather than repo-ing it.  I hate the feeling of being trapped, but I would hate to still have the debt but not the vehicle!  DH and I had a serious talk the other day about finances, and we are ready to start off the new year fresh and try to get everything under control, now that our crushing credit card debt is gone.  If I make some good sales with my business, I can put aside some money for the car payment.  I just can't count on that money coming in, so it's hard to budget.  I am going to sit down with DH this week and go over all of our income/expenses right now and maybe we can get something resembling a budget hammered out and figure out exactly where we stand.  I would love any additional advice, especially on how to budget with an uncertain income.  Thanks again, everyone!  

[texmati]

Originally Posted by MellowMama 

Thanks so much for the ideas and advice!  To answer some of the questions, the car loan is from a regular bank, but I do think we would be held responsible for the balance, because I remember them trying to sell us gap insurance.  The van is worth $9,000 (and needs about $2,000 of work done, mostly cosmetic but some mechanical as well), and our remaining payments total around $13,500 (so it's not twice the value like I thought).  Selling it and financing the difference might help a little as far as the payments go, but that would leave us still making monthly payments but not having the van.  I also don't think the bank would be interested in a new loan to us because of our credit.  

But payments on 4500 would be either smaller or done faster than 13500, right? And the van is going to continue going down in value, just making you more and more stuck. The bank knows that which is why they might be willing to get some of their money out now instead of later.

[MellowMama]

Originally Posted by texmati 

But payments on 4500 would be either smaller or done faster than 13500, right? And the van is going to continue going down in value, just making you more and more stuck. The bank knows that which is why they might be willing to get some of their money out now instead of later.

Thanks, Texmati!  Yes, the payments would certainly be lower, but depending on the terms of the loan (which no bank in their right mind would give us, but maybe this bank would want to do it in order to recoup the bulk of the original loan), the payment would be something like $210 for 2 years (I plugged the amount into a loan calculator online, but I didn't know what percentage rate to put so I used 10%...I would imagine that with our credit, it could even be higher).  The payment now is $451 (around 7% interest) and we have 2 years left, so while doing it that way would cut our payment in half, I would still be left without a vehicle and no way to purchase another one.  If I did manage to scrounge up a little to buy something really cheap ($500-$1,000), I would be really concerned about the condition of that vehicle, and the potential car repairs we would have to start making in addition to the $210 per month.  We just got rid of my husband's car (my parents used it as a trade in on a new car for them and gave us their old car) that had close to 200,000 miles on it because it needed a new engine and it would have cost more than what the car was worth to do that, so I would hate to spend $1,000 on a car that had similar issues.  Also, we have 3 kids and 2 dogs, plus a niece who frequently visits and I transport her a lot, so that makes 4 kids who need to be safely seated in our vehicle.  Our kids just barely squeeze into DH's car (one carseat, one booster, and a very uncomfortable 12 year old in the middle with a lap belt only...they spend the entire time fighting), and my niece and the dogs don't fit at all.  Also, I frequently have to travel all over the area with the back of the van filled with equipment for work for my business.  I know it's not a NEED, but we really use the minivan a lot, so I would really prefer to hang onto it.  I'm thinking that the plan right now needs to be finding a way to make that payment.  When I have a good month, I need to set aside $$ to pay it.  We need to cut our grocery bill and all other extras.  I'm feeling really depressed and anxious about the whole situation today, but I also have a little bit of hope that we can dig out of this and make permanent changes in the way we deal with our finances so that we never get into this situation again.   

[Momsteader]

Can you do home child care?  Even after school care could help the budget. It's a few hours of work a day. If you have the van, you could offer pick-up/drop-off at the same school your children go to since you're already going there. Before/after school care runs $5-15 per child per day depending on what you're providing. If you could do two children, that would be anywhere from $50-100 extra per week for only a few hours of a work a day. It's a commitment, but it's also something you can do with your children present and for not a lot of extra work on your part. My kids always really enjoyed the built in friends to play with, and I actually had extra time to do things, because they all played well together.

Definitely cancel cable and drop down to the most basic things on phone/internet that you reasonably can. If you are tied into a package or contract, ask about a temporary reduction. You are still responsible for time left on on the contract, but you can fulfill that time later or pay a termination fee if necessary at a later time.  In this economy, they're willing to do a lot to not lose you as a customer and work with you to keep your bill current.

Is your husband contributing extra to his retirement? If he is, you might look at temporarily dropping that down.  Are you getting a big tax refund?  If you are, then you should look at editing your deductions so you get more in your pocket each month. Yes, you won't get that 'windfall' each year, but in your situation, you need that each month to make bills.

[VisionaryMom]

Call the bank tomorrow. Explain the situation and see what they say. 

I also have the tendency to run through 100 scenarios and crunch numbers. In your case, though, I think you need to talk to them instead of going through "what ifs."

I've been in a similar place after a really terrible, lengthy struggle with depression. I won't lie; it's TOUGH to dig out of such a hole. It can be done, though, and I really believe my overall financial ideology and lifestyle changed for the better, but it's a long process. You really need to focus on just the immediate issues. I do think your first step is to talk to the bank and the second is to make a listing of where you are now, i.e. are you late on bills? By how much? When is the next round of bills due?

If you're up to it, I also think you should consider taking velochic's suggestion of posting a budget and getting ideas on how you can cut it down.

[Motivated Mama]

and

I'm in the same situation except we still have the credit card debt. We owe $17,500 on a vehicle worth $11,415 if we sell it out right and $9,350 if we trade it in. Monthly payments are $430 and our mortgage is also $1100. DH works part-time at the post office and full-time as a restaurant manger and delivery driver. He didn't complete college so the post office is his best prospect. I work part-time as a vet tech and stay home during the week. I did complete college and some graduate education, but without experience and with my available hours, not to mention location, I have no work prospects in my field currently (biology and public health). I am pre-med and looking at a more prospective future. We have 3 children under 5 and there is no way could we afford child care. I am not suitable for at-home child care (I just know better ).

So, I don't want to jack your thread, but I do want to offer support and read along.

[zebra15]

Here's the thing. And I'm going to be brutally honest.   You need to provide for the kids, you keep mentioning that you have pets, yes but you have KIDS... if you are in full crisis mode the pets come in second im sorry.  I am a pet owner and my son loves his dog but there may come a time when that dog needs to go to keep a roof over our heads, our tummies full and our basic needs met.  I am not buying a larger vehicle to fit the dog when I can barely provide the basics, that just doesnt make sense.

There is so much more at play here than just the car issue.  Yes your DH schedule changes frequently but there should be a way for him to get some type of 2nd income, you work from home but you could also do daycare, or something else too.  Is bundling services (phone, net, cable) the cheapest option or would prepaid cells, no cable and a diff internet be cheaper?  

What are your fuel costs on the van, on DH car? is it worth it to keep the van or find a car that fits every person? 

Can you get a dave ramsey book from the library and read it? Im not a hard core DR fan but some of his stuff makes sense.  If not DR, susie oreman, any of the financial planners our there, just pick one and start reading.  You need a plan.

[texmati]

I do agree that you need a plan... One thing that jumps out at me is your business-- what is the nature of your business? Could you close it down and sell the equipment and do some other work? 500-1000 only some months is just not cutting it for your family; especially if it's causing you to keep the internet, equippment and a larger car.

When making big cuts (like going to one car, etc), it's helpful to think of it as temporary. If you choose the more difficult path now, pretty soon you *will* have a nice, paid for van that you won't need to stress about each month when the payment comes due.

[fierrbugg]

Originally Posted by zebra15 

There is so much more at play here than just the car issue.  Yes your DH schedule changes frequently but there should be a way for him to get some type of 2nd income, you work from home but you could also do daycare, or something else too.  Is bundling services (phone, net, cable) the cheapest option or would prepaid cells, no cable and a diff internet be cheaper?  

What are your fuel costs on the van, on DH car? is it worth it to keep the van or find a car that fits every person? 

Can you get a dave ramsey book from the library and read it? Im not a hard core DR fan but some of his stuff makes sense.  If not DR, susie oreman, any of the financial planners our there, just pick one and start reading.  You need a plan.

My dh is also a paramedic.  So hopefully I can help w/ the budget planning thing.  It's good that you are going to look at ways you can cut down on expenses - that's a GREAT start. 

Things to consider:  You said your dh works in a million different stations - is that because of the OT?  Does he have a normal shift in one station that he can carpool to with someone?  Is there a way your dh can get a 2nd job for a small amount of time just so you can get ahead or help out someone else at work who has a company on the side?  How long is he required to hold over if they don't have relief and how would that affect the rest of your schedule if you became a 1 car family and had to drive him back and forth?  Do they have a kitty @ work where they share meal expenses and does he take advantage of that to save $ for food?

My dh's agency provides a calendar each year w/ shifts and paydays - or you can probably find calendars online.  This REALLY helps me w/ figuring out our budget which I do each month - and we are a mostly 1 income family now.  The way I do the budget is first to write it out on an excel spreadsheet (because I'm a nerd like that) - also a recommendation from Dave Ramsey.  Because of dh's shift I know that he's either going to have a paycheck that covers one of 3 options as far as hours go: 48/48, 48/72 or 72/72 (this may be different for your dh depending on the type of schedule he works).  I know approximately what his check will be with each work week so when planning, I go by a low-ball estimate that doesn't include OT shifts (for example 48/48 = $100, 48/72 = $150, 72/72 = $200 although those are obviously not the real numbers you get the idea) - and then when we get the check I apply the extra to savings or grocery or whatever. In our house, we have agreed that we will pay bills first and let the rest of the chips land where they may.  I shop using coupons and stock up on stuff we use when there's a really great sale so if there are months that we can't afford food, we're fine.  This will obviously be different for you as you have kids.  It's just 2 of us and the dogs.   

Once you get your budget written down you'll probably find ways to cut spending.  I'm sure aside from being a month behind on the van payment you are also paying through the nose in late fees (before we got a handle on our budget we were just throwing tons of $ away in fees).  Getting everything written out and tracking it and sticking to the budget helped us get everything paid on time and helped to eliminate the extra $ we were wasting each month. If you can get your expenses to fit into your dh's check (or his check + your guaranteed part-time income) then your fluctuating income can be used as gravy, but won't be something you depend on so much to make payments on the van.  hth 

[ilovemygirl]

If I may ask, what is dh's take home pay not including the OT money that is going towards the lawyer? That is the money you can regularly work with every month and it seems to me that if you have no other debt than this one car payment and your mortgage is only $1100 with everything included, there should be quite a bit left over every month from his regular salary, even if he's not making a great salary. You sound pretty stretched thin time wise so concentrating on money management is probably your best bet. Have you tried to cut expenses yet? Are you already down to the bare bones of never going out to eat, never buying anything unless it's completely necessary, saving electricity and water in the house? All that stuff can make a big difference. I know it sounds stupid but if you haven't done these things yet, I'm sure you could find the money you need there.