Starting solids- soupy or simply mashing?

[zenmumajen]

Hello everyone.

We started my son with maybe a TBS. of oatmeal and 3 TBS or more of breastmilk so it was very soupy. I'm not sure he is into the oatmeal anymore, so I was planning on trying a little banana today. How much should i give him? Should I just mash it or mix it with breastmilk?

[sapphire_chan]

Since you're starting complementary foods, he can sit up by himself and no longer has a tongue thrust reflex. Therefore, he doesn't need to be fed a liquid diet. 

Just give him like a 1/4 of a banana, with 1/2 the peel off (leave 1/2 the peel to give him a grip. He'll handle mashing it himself. He might even get some in his mouth. Use 1/4 a banana so there's less waste.

Soupy purees are for infants with a medical reason to start solids before they're ready, or for infants with feeding issues of the sort that makes it likely that they will require occupational therapy.

[zenmumajen]

Okay- well thank you. I gave him the banana yesterday, he was confused and sucked it but I ripped off a tiny piece and he ate it. Though, for some reason I am more worried to fee him the food dry because I am worried about choking. Is this possible? 

Also, his pincer grasp seems to be well established and I read somewhere that they can eat finger foods once they have this reflex. Still...I'm worried about what finger foods to give him and him choking. 

[Knitting Mama]

Remember, gagging and choking are two different things! Gagging is totally normal. It is how your baby learns how to move food that goes into the back of his mouth forward so he can chew it, and it is how he overcomes his gag reflex, which as an infant is farther forward in his mouth. Choking is different. It is generally silent or wheezy because the food blocks the airways. I would hold off on any more solids until you feel comfortable identifying the difference-- maybe take an infant CPR class?

[BirthIsAwesome]

I would just mash up banana or avacado, or chop into tiny pieces. You needn't make it soupy, but I would rather let my baby eat something slightly mashed or chopped instead of gagging, etc. Even mama birds chew the food before regurgitating it for their chicks. I think there is a stage in between "needs more than breastmilk" and "is mature enough, mentally and physically, to choose all foods for themselves and feed it to themselves in the whole form". But, that is totally just different parenting styles talking...I'm not really hot on hardcore BLW, but that's just me.

[Knitting Mama]

Originally Posted by BirthIsAwesome 

I think there is a stage in between "needs more than breastmilk" and "is mature enough, mentally and physically, to choose all foods for themselves and feed it to themselves in the whole form".

This, I disagree with. It's cool if you want to do purees and cereals versus BLW, but this phrase I disagree with. Babies don't actually need more than breastmilk for the first year of their life and even beyond for some babies. Eating early on is about learning how to eat, not eating for nutrition.

[karen1968]

And we are not birds! We are mammals, and more specifically we are primates. So, if you feel a need to look to the animal kingdom for advice on feeding your baby, you'd do better to look at gorillas or chimps than birds.

If your son can sit unassisted and has a good pincher grasp, there is no reason not to give him whole (but soft!) foods. Give him a big enough chunk of banana, pear, steamed broccoli, etc. that he can hold it in his hand and gnaw on it. He is less likely to gag or choke if he is deciding how much goes into his mouth.

We started DS off with a mostly-eaten pear (enough flesh that he wouldn't eat the seeds, but no peel) and he really enjoyed just mouthing that. As the weeks went by and we tried more foods, he got better and better and breaking off little bits to gum and swallow.

[Snapdragon]

I am of a totally different opinion than others here on this- but I will share mine-

I only give ds (almost 10 months) food that I puree first- I too fear that he will choke on chunks. to me there seems no benifit and a huge risk to giving him somehting he could choke on! I just really don't see the point. I know all about peoples' opinions on this and have read many many threads at length on why people like giving their babies chunks, blw, etc. but for me personally, I do not feel comfortable giving him anything that he could gag or choke on- yes I know gagging is different than choking- but I do not wan thim to do either! I give him wonderful yummy food- but I simply puree it first. To me this doesn't mean I am forcing him  to eat or whatever- he is very opinionated and likes many tihngs but says no thanks to others. I just don't see the point in rushing it.

[Snapdragon]

and regarding a banana- for example- I usually put it through the hand puree and then mix in a little water to thin it

[sapphire_chan]

They're going to gag whenever they first have to manage chunks on their own. Thing is, at 6 months the gag reflex is farther forward in the mouth than it is at a year. So at 6 months the baby gags and the food falls out (which is why you only feed a baby who is sitting upright, never reclined). At a year, the baby gags and the food is so far back that it doesn't necessarily just fall out, instead, compared to the 6 month old, it's more likely to end up where it can choke the baby. Meanwhile, the baby who got to learn about how food works by playing when the gag reflex was farther forward can already chew and swallow by the time the gag reflex is too far back to really protect them.

Physiologically speaking, it's really dangerous not to let babies learn how to move food around in their mouths and chew.  Purees and such can be a convenience like for traveling, but only feeding purees is just so risky.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Snapdragon 

I am of a totally different opinion than others here on this- but I will share mine-

I only give ds (almost 10 months) food that I puree first- I too fear that he will choke on chunks. to me there seems no benifit and a huge risk to giving him somehting he could choke on! I just really don't see the point. I know all about peoples' opinions on this and have read many many threads at length on why people like giving their babies chunks, blw, etc. but for me personally, I do not feel comfortable giving him anything that he could gag or choke on- yes I know gagging is different than choking- but I do not wan thim to do either! I give him wonderful yummy food- but I simply puree it first. To me this doesn't mean I am forcing him  to eat or whatever- he is very opinionated and likes many tihngs but says no thanks to others. I just don't see the point in rushing it.

As long as you're willing to keep cutting his food up in to tiny pieces and watching every bite until he's 4, go for it. That's what my SIL did with her kids and they never choked (that I observed). Had some bad gagging (that I observed), but as long as she kept a close eye on them and only let them have 3-5 pieces of food on their plate at a time they could manage well enough. 

Of course, my dd never choked, gagged fewer times than just the number of times I saw her cousin gag, could use a spoon and fork better than them at 2 years younger, and can just sit and eat a meal with us without fuss and bother.

[poorlittlefish]

I make my own babyfood and I initially start my kids on purees that are fairly thin....about the thickness of yogurt and gradually work them up to chunkier until they are old, then on to whole pcs.  I also don't really see the point in BLW. I don't think that feeding kids only puree's is "risky."  I don't like my baby to gag and choke and as I work them up to chunkier textures they figure it out.  I never had any issues with my DD1 and she ate purees. 

As far as the stage where they "need more then BM" I agree that purees are good for that.  My DD1 wasn't much of a solids eater, didn't really eat any of it until at least 9 months and was totally content on a 98% BM diet until she was past 1.  Enter, DD2.  This kid wants food and lots of it AND lots of milk.  She gets frustrated if I try to give her pieces because she can't really get it in her mouth very well.  We started her on solids 1 week shy of her 6 month birthday and that was a stretch.  She wanted it.  So, my point is, some babies are hungry and even though BM can fill their needs nutritionally, some of them want more. 

Anyways, I am getting off track.  My point is, do puree's, do BLW, do whatever you are comfortable with. I just don't buy that 1 is better than the other.  That wasn't even your origional question...how did I get on this track?

[Asiago]

I say go with your instinct, whatever it is.

In many traditional societies (but also some modern ones as well) baby's first solids are premasticated foods, which are mushy consistency.

Incidentally this offers important immological benefits, along with digestive enzymes, that begin to break the food down. Mashing would offer a similar consistancy but without the other benefits. That said, the medical community is unsupportive of  practice of premastication due to cases of disease transmission. As far as purees, I think the baby food industry made them popular in order to feed extremely young infants and thus gain that market.

Apologies, in response to your banana question, I don't think you need to mash it with breast milk so long as you are breastfeeding frequently. Breastfeeding will protect him from many of the food borne pathogens he will now be in contact with which are a way of life when starting solids.

[zenmumajen]

I am going to go with my instincts on this...thank you everyone for your feedback. I didn't realize how overwhelming this all is...

Every since I was really young I've had this terrible fear of choking and gagging (I wouldn't eat mozzarella sticks for a long time and I still can't get my throat swabbed) and I don't want to instill that fear in my son but at the same time I just want to be cautious...

Is there any good resources out there that you all refer back to- besides kellymom? 

[Knitting Mama]

That's the best thing you can do, mama! Trust your instincts, but definitely try not to pass that overriding fear onto your child.

The resources I have are all BLW ones, since we're not puree people.

[zenmumajen]

I will take BLW sources---and anything else so that I can make an educated decision based off that. Thanks!! 

[karen1968]

Here are a couple of baby-led weaning resources:

http://babyledweaning.blogware.com/

http://www.babyledweaning.com/

I just wanted to add my 2¢ (again) regarding purees. It is my belief, based on my own experiences, that many food avoidance issues have as much to do with texture as with flavor. Commercial baby food takes away both the natural texture of foods and the natural flavor. Home made purees (should) retain the flavor, but you are still mashing or blending out the natural textures of foods.  Letting your baby taste and play with natural whole foods introduces them to the way foods should feel in their mouth - banana and avocado are mushy straight out of the peel, but broccoli, carrots, meats and grains are bumpy or stringy or tough or some other texture.

Personally, I still - at age 42 - can not eat certain foods because their texture is somehow "wrong" to my brain. This is one of the main reasons I chose BLW for my son (and will use it for my daughter).  Also, it is much easier than pureeing/mashing everything.

Of course, every family and every kid is different. My friend's son would not have done well with BLW - even at age 4, he has choking issues on occasion. Trust your mama instincts, but do so from a place of knowledge

[karen1968]

Erg. Didn't realize those were actually the same source!  Here's a link to the page of the originator of BLW,  The "Guidelines" pdf has some good info. In regards to what kinds of foods to offer, she says: "DO offer a variety of foods.  There is no need to limit your baby’s experience with food any more than you do with toys." I'm not sure that's much help to you!

[Snapdragon]

Ironically, we are visiting with dh's dad right now- and just tonight he was saying it might be good to start to offer ds a few small self feeding things- so we gave him some cracker which he chewed and swallowe (he has 2 bottom teeth) and he was saying ds might be ready for a few small things, but mostly purees- but to start teaching him a little how to manage food himself ( I really respect his opinons )- so anyway- I just realized that as a first time mom, and with my personality- I definately err on the side of caution with this whole issue! But I guess ultimately I think it is good to do purees first and then slowly introduce chunks. I do still get nervous though! Maybe if it was my second child I would know more that it is all oakya- but I still am learning the boundries of things.

[Knitting Mama]

Oh, I totally get that, Snapdragon. Most of my mom friends have more than one child. It's really interesting to see how rigorous they were with their first child's food intake, and how much that has changed with subsequent kids!

Oh, and I totally agree with Karen on the texture thing! Here are a couple more BLW resources:

http://babyledweaning.blogware.com/blog/GettingStartedFingerFoodBasics

http://www.wholesomebabyfood.com/babyledweaning.htm