BF on cue but meals/snacks on schedule?

[crunchy_mommy]

(Maybe this should go in Toddlers but I'm thinking of it more as a general parenting discussion but feel free to move it if necessary!)

I was just reading Our Babies, Ourselves (great read by the way, if you haven't read it!) and it got me thinking about something.

When our babies are little, we are encouraged to feed them on cue... which I guess everyone takes to different extremes (my DS nursed several times an hour but it seems like most babies nurse every 1-3 hours?) 

Then it seems like the advice I see here most often (a la Ellyn Satter - sp?) is to only offer foods at set times throughout the day.

I guess what I'm confused about is, why the disconnect? Why nurse on cue but offer table food on a schedule? Is it because of the fat/protein/calorie/digestibility difference of breastmilk vs. table food? Has anyone given table food on demand, and had it work out great? (or not great?) Does this concept change as kids get older? 

My DS is only 2 & as I said, he nursed several times an hour until he reached about 18mos (& I reached a breaking point!) I guess now he is still somewhat nursed on cue but sometimes I dissuade/distract/etc. I have also always given him table food on demand, although until recently he wasn't overly interested & rarely asked for food on his own. Of course we still have our regular meal times too (plus snacks). I have thought about the 'only have food at set times' thing but can't seem to make the jump from cue-feeding to scheduled feeding. Though I can see this may have advantages in the real world where most people eat on schedules (I don't, I eat when I'm hungry, but largely because I'm hypoglycemic). I also don't love the concept of 3 main meals & prefer just eating whatever, whenever, as long as it's healthy/nutritionally complete.

So. I thought this could be an interesting discussion... I'm very curious how other parents feel about this issue!

[newbiemama09]

i BF DD on demand, but i never force foods on a schedule. i make sure she gets all 3 meals, plus 3 snacks a day because i believe that's what is recommended. sometimes DD asks for snack, sometimes i just provide her with one. i never force her to eat meals, she's only 21 months and won't understand "you have to try your food before you leave the table" for a long time!!

i'm not sure why the book would distinct between BF and meals??

[lifeguard]

We've gone with meal times but if at any time ds says he's hungry & requests something else he can have it. And quite frankly I don't pay much attention to how much he eats during our mealtimes - I know it balances out at the end of the day/week. So I guess we kind of due on demand.

[BetsyS]

We eat real food on a schedule.  Mostly because of two things.  The first is that my furst child was delayed verbally, and it ensured he wasn'y ever too hungry.  The 2nd is that it's a lot easier with three needy littles and one lazy mama to get in, then get out of the kitchen and move on to something else.else.

[MrsH]

I also nurse on cue and now that she's 20 months old I do often distract or try to offer an alternative.  But we do have set meal and snack times for the family at this point.  I think that having regular times does help me to provide more balanced options and also helps us to actually all sit down and eat together.  That I think is a super huge key towards helping children become competent eaters.  While we have set times, the kids can grab fruit or cut up veggies at any time they feel hungry.  Also, if a child chooses not to eat something that's offered, then they can pretty much choose to eat that anytime before the next planned meal or snack, if they want.  So for example, a child complains that he doesn't like his grilled cheese because it tastes "weird," or doesn't want to have the chili because it looks "weird," I just say ok that's fine, just ask your body what it needs and only eat what it needs.  Then if the child gets hungry a little later, I just say "oh, you're welcome to fruit/veggies, or that grilled cheese/chili.  Would you like one of those?  We'll have a different snack after we pick DD up from school."

Does that make any sense?  It's been a while since I read Ellyn Satter's book, but I believe she recommends weaning once the child is about a year.  I love her work on feeding slightly older kids, but remember strongly disagreeing with her breastfeeding advice!

[Learning_Mum]

Well we have set meal times now because I found otherwise the kids would end up grazing (which isn't a bad thing in itself) but because they were basically snacking all day they weren't really eating at meal times and therefore weren't getting a particularly balanced diet. They were eating far too many carbs and though I always tried to include a protein they really weren't getting enough protein or fruits and vegetables. Also, when there's more than one person to prepare food for, you end up being in the kitchen all day getting someone something.

[July09Mama]

We used to let dd graze all day, but then we found out that she has cavities and her teeth should be brushed 3x a day, so now I try to encourage her to eat more set meals and snacks so she's not eating right after her teeth have been brushed. She still snacks a lot, but not quite as much. Just an idea as to why some families might not demand-feed solids; it's what I believe in, but in practice it doesn't work for us. DD does still nurse on demand, though.

[ChristyMarie]

We eat when we're hungry but it falls into a somewhat "schedule" but just because we seem to get hungry at about the same time each day.

When we were transitioning to solids we had a snack tray out all the time for DS to snack on.  He was very resistant to solids and this really helped.  I think we started that at about 18 months.

Now I make sure he has a snack or meal about every 2 hours.  We both eat all day - small snacks and small meals - but we're also both hypoglycemic so this regulates our blood sugar nicely.

But if he says he's hungry before I think to offer?  Sure, let the kid eat.

[velochic]

I don't think it's all or nothing.  And although I have only read her website, there is a lot of Ellen Satter that I don't agree with.  One of those things that I disagree with most is feeding on a strict schedule at any age.  I don't think it is good for the digestion or teeth to eat tiny bits all day long, but saying, for example, that breakfast is at 7:00am and lunch is at 12:00pm and supper is at 6:00pm, with snacks two hours afters breakfast and lunch is absolutely ridiculous.  What if you have a big breakfast out with a friend?  Are you then supposed to eat lunch at 12:00 even if you're not hungry?  What about (like my dd) you don't like to eat when you get up in the morning?  She doesn't eat breakfast until 10:30 or so and doesn't want lunch until after 2pm.  There can be flexibility within structured meals.  (For example, only one person is hungry at 5pm... have a small fruit snack to tide them over until you server supper at 6:30.)

Breastfeeding on demand is because a baby's stomach is very tiny and breastmilk is digested very easily.  Each child's digestion is going to be unique and take a little longer or be faster (probably due to genetic metabolism) so they'll eat when they are hungry.  They don't have teeth, so it's not a big deal to have a sugary food (breastmilk) in the mouth all the time.  Breastfeeding on demand makes sense because a child's stomach, like the rest of them, is growing and can't hold much at one time.

When solids are introduced, I think that there is a period where you do have to feed on demand (and it may be that they take only one bite of a food and leave the rest), and slowly transition to "meal times".  I think that meal times have to be flexible.  The cook doesn't want to be in the kitchen all the time.  And if you have food on-hand for anytime, is it going to be junk convenience food or freshly-made healthy food from scratch.  You can't have healthy scratch food prepared all the time (no preservatives... it goes bad more quickly).  So, you need to find that healthy medium, and it is not going to be an overnight transition.  It will take time.

[Alyantavid]

Originally Posted by ChristyMarie 

We eat when we're hungry but it falls into a somewhat "schedule" but just because we seem to get hungry at about the same time each day.

Now I make sure he has a snack or meal about every 2 hours.  We both eat all day - small snacks and small meals - but we're also both hypoglycemic so this regulates our blood sugar nicely.

But if he says he's hungry before I think to offer?  Sure, let the kid eat.

That's what we do.  I bf on demand and we pretty much eat on demand now.  We do have typical meals throughout the day but if they want a snack, that's totally fine.  I only limit snacking if it's within an hour or so of dinner.

[crunchy_mommy]

Hmm maybe I misunderstood Ellyn Satter, never read her book just browsed her site a bit & kind of had a hard time agreeing with her on some things but thought maybe there was something I was missing since so maybe people on MDC seem to agree with & follow her advice. 

I like feeding on request because I hated when, growing up, my mom would say "wait until dinner" -- they didn't know back then that I was hypoglycemic, and I was getting nauseous & physically ill from waiting that extra 10-30-60-etc. minutes until dinner. And it seems like more and more people are hypoglycemic so I almost wonder if we all are (to some degree) and it just affects some people more than others. I wonder if we were meant to mostly graze all day, and the 'eat only at certain times' thing evolved out of convenience rather than health... I could understand the cavity thing though (fortunately we are not prone to cavities in my family!) 

[rightkindofme]

My issue with free feeding all day long is my daughter wants me to prepare different snack foods for her every 15 minutes so she can take one bite.  Drives me insane.  No thanks.  So I only give her fairly set meals/snacks.  It's a selfish thing and I'm good with that. :)

[bodhitree]

I checked out Ellyn Satter's book after seeing it recommended on here, and I didn't really like it. I felt like she was saying you're doing your child a disservice if you let them eat when they're hungry instead of controlling when they are allowed to eat. But it took me a long time as an adult to recover the ability of eating when hungry and not eating when not hungry, so I don't choose to be controlling about when DD eats. If she asks for a snack, she gets one. If she were asking every fifteen minutes and then only eating one bite of the snack, then yeah, I'd probably change strategies a bit.

[rightkindofme]

It's also worth mentioning that I have a horrible ant problem that has been going on for months.  We really can't leave any food out at all or we get swarms in minutes.  I'm about to say forget being eco-friendly we need to bomb the heck out of this house.  I've tried every non-toxic method there is. :(  So that's part of why I have such a stick up my you-know-what about making her new snack foods every time she asks.  I have to go make it and then clean up after it when she takes one bite.  If I could leave a couple of bowls or a tray on a table I would. :)  I'm not philosophically opposed to free feeding. :)

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by rightkindofme 

It's also worth mentioning that I have a horrible ant problem that has been going on for months.  We really can't leave any food out at all or we get swarms in minutes.  I'm about to say forget being eco-friendly we need to bomb the heck out of this house.  I've tried every non-toxic method there is. :(  So that's part of why I have such a stick up my you-know-what about making her new snack foods every time she asks.  I have to go make it and then clean up after it when she takes one bite.  If I could leave a couple of bowls or a tray on a table I would. :)  I'm not philosophically opposed to free feeding. :)

LOL I can totally relate, we had an ant problem for a while too though not quite as severe!! Eventually they just went away, not sure why, though we still seem to get lots of spiders etc. 

And it would definitely drive me nuts if DS took just one bite after I made him something. Usually snacks around here are fruit, leftovers, or hummus, so there isn't much prep involved. If he doesn't finish the snack, we just put it in the fridge for later that day or whatever. He is still a very messy eater so that's annoying, lots of cleanup. 

But I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one isn't crazy about the Ellyn Satter methods. Yeah Bodhitree, I feel like it's just too controlling or something for my preferences. From the posts on here previously, it sounded like hers were the *gold standards* of feeding -- obviously that doesn't mean I have to follow it, but it made me wonder what I was missing, you know?

[mamazee]

I let my kids snack when they're hungry, but the older one eventually started getting hungry for snacks at roughly the same times every day.  The little one is starting to fall into that as well.  But it's based on when they're hungry and not the clock.

[Peony]

My children can eat whenever they want, I have no set schedule as far as snacking goes. DD1 gets breakfast the same time every day since she goes to school, and dinner is usually around the same time just because I cook ahead and when we get home from after school activities,t hey are are hungry. Everything else is whenever they are hungry. I am a big snacker, I need to eat frequently or else I get dizzy, grumpy, and my children seem to be similar, 3 snacks and 2 snacks a day would never cut it in this house. It isn't uncommon for us to eat two "lunches". My mom was really big on not "spoiling our dinner" and that never settled well with me, i remember being staving but wasn't allowed to eat because dinner was an hour away, I could eat a snack and then still eat dinner. aAnd my children are the same. I am big on teaching children to listen to their bodies about food, when they are hungry, when they have had enough, all important for life long healthy eating habits, and I think strict schedules teach children to ignore their cues. 

[rubidoux]

Originally Posted by Peony 

My children can eat whenever they want, I have no set schedule as far as snacking goes. DD1 gets breakfast the same time every day since she goes to school, and dinner is usually around the same time just because I cook ahead and when we get home from after school activities,t hey are are hungry. Everything else is whenever they are hungry. I am a big snacker, I need to eat frequently or else I get dizzy, grumpy, and my children seem to be similar, 3 snacks and 2 snacks a day would never cut it in this house. It isn't uncommon for us to eat two "lunches". My mom was really big on not "spoiling our dinner" and that never settled well with me, i remember being staving but wasn't allowed to eat because dinner was an hour away, I could eat a snack and then still eat dinner. aAnd my children are the same. I am big on teaching children to listen to their bodies about food, when they are hungry, when they have had enough, all important for life long healthy eating habits, and I think strict schedules teach children to ignore their cues. 

ITA with this.  I don't think I could do a better job deciding when and how much they should be eating than they do.  Now that ds1 is seven and he's got stuff going on all day almost every day, I feel like I have to feed him every chance I get.  He's always hungry -- so I feed him b'fast before driving him to school, of course I send a lunch in w him, then I pick him up and bring him a snack that he eats on the way to swimming/soccer/karate/basketball, by the time we get home he's starving, and I swear an hour after that he's starving again.  My younger is just the opposite, never hungry, and is definitely not interested in a meal.  

[Mama Mko]

We don't feed on a schedule at all. My oldest is 5 1/2. My youngest is 4 months old. They all get fed whenever they're hungry, all day long. I don't eat on a schedule and feel better when I can just eat whenever I feel the need.