Should I let my daughter go to Turkey at age 3?

[tnmom66]

My child's Turkish father has just expressed interest in taking her for a month long visit to his family's home in Turkey.  He hasn't been there in 5 years himself to see his dad or brothers, but his mother has been here a couple of times.  The last time, she missed her flight because the connecting one was delayed and she was stuck in NYC, speaking no English for an extra day or so.  I can't imagine an older woman, traveling along running into that kind of problem.  I wonder if that is why she doesn't want to come back.

Her going this spring is totally out of the question.  She is still breastfeeding. I said I might agree to this fall, if I can feel good about it. She spends one night a week with her dad. I have 2 older children with my ex-husband and we have a pretty nice home life. She does adore her father and he sees her about 5 days out of the week, for a couple of hours at a time.  She hasn't spent more than 24 hours or so without seeing me.

He says it is basically a 2 day trip to get to his destination and less than a 30 day visit isn't practical. I tried to convince him to go just for 2 weeks, but he thinks it isn't long enough.

My daughter hasn't taken any extended trips and on a very busy day might spend 3 hours in the car.

Lots of people are worried about abduction, but I don't know if that is a real concern. If he was wanting to take her and never bring her back, he'd have been happy to say he'd bring her back in 2 weeks.

I'd like feedback/ advice especially from anyone who has taken a preschooler on a trip like this alone.

She does not have a passport. I don't know if she can Travel on his--as far as I know, he hasn't applied for Turkish citizenship for her.

I wonder if he can get court permission even if I don't agree for her to go.  We have joint custody and I am the primary residential parent.

He is a great Dad, but he doesn't especially like me and I don't feel very secure. He insists that our daughter needs me and he has no interest in taking her away from me and her siblings.

[Alyantavid]

Regardless of the situation with her father, there is no way I would be away from my 3 year old for a month.  I'd let her go in a few years  Though I can totally see his side, I personally couldn't be away from my kid for that long.

[ilovemygirl]

I very highly doubt a court would force a child that young to take a trip away from the parent they live with ... especially a trip that long and to a foreign country. 

Even if you were still married and desperately in love and had no fear about what would happen or if he would bring her back - I just can't imagine how awful it would be for a LO to be without their mommy in a strange place for a month ... eek!

[starling&diesel]

Originally Posted by tnmom66 

He is a great Dad, but he doesn't especially like me and I don't feel very secure. He insists that our daughter needs me and he has no interest in taking her away from me and her siblings.

I wouldn't let my child go in the same circumstance.  First and foremost, it's the distance between you and your child, and the length of time away.

That you don't feel secure about it is the only red flag you need.  If it's important to him that she has a relationship with her Turkish relatives, could you take her on a trip yourself, when he's also in Turkey?  Even then, I'd still be worried that he'd find a way to keep her there.

[Katielady]

Yeah I think 30 days is WAY too long for a child that age. And really, it's just not true that one MUST spend that amount of time in order to make the travel time worth it. I know people who've gone for a week to go to a wedding. It sounds like he would just PREFER to go for that amount of time. Well, part of parenting is making compromises.

I think you should tell him He can either take her for less time, or wait til she's older. End of story.

If it were me I'd also worry just a leeeetle that he was planning to take her and stay there with her, a la "Not Without my Daughter." Just the fact that he wants her there for such an extended period of time at such a young age, and is trying to convince you about it, is unnerving to me. Something to watch out for as plans progress. Make sure you get a passport for yourself as well as for her.

[gbailey]

OP, I personally wouldn't do it especially since you are having so many reservations about it. Being away from you for an entire month in another country when she's not around you for long periods of time would worry me greatly.

I know you say you're not worried about abduction but are you really not in the least bit concerned? You mentioned you're not sure if he's applied for Turkish citizenship for her. That's something you should know and if the situation were reversed the dad should know.

To travel out of the country she's going to need a passport. She can't travel on his. To get the passport you both need to be present and give permission. I doubt a court would allow him to take a three year old away from the primary caregiver for a full month especially if there's concern that he may not bring her back. Maybe I am paranoia because I watch a lot of Dateline and followed the David Goldman case very closely) I'd find out what the laws are regarding parental custody in Turkey and what the U.S.'s relationship is with Turkey. It doesn't seem worth risking.

[leighi123]

She needs her own passport for sure, the only time you might get away with just a birth certificate is to Canada for an overnight, or on a cruise where its a "closed loop" trip with no other way to get back other than on the ship (I've done both with ds).  I've never heard of a child 'traveling on' someone else's passport.  I've had mine from when I was a week old and have been all over the world.  

I also dont get why she HAS to stay for a month, thats way too long for a vacation.   Why does it take 2 days to get there?  I've been on flights that are 16+ hours and things, and it takes ALL day, but never 2 whole days unless something goes wrong, or you stop somewhere for some reason, unless its somewhere in the middle of nowhere?   I've been to remote islands where its a plane ride, then a tiny plane ride, then a 2 hour drive, then a 6 seater plane ride, then another 2 hour car ride, and then a 2 hour boat ride.  I think it took us close to 24 hours to get there.  

Either way, 2 days of travel to me doesnt seem like enough to jusitify staying for a whole month without you.  2 weeks, maybe, but not 4.  

Can you go with her on the trip?  I would figure out a way to do that.  

[tnmom66]

We were never married, but we do have a court-signed custody agreement. We do not have a parenting plan that addresses travel, etc. He has been away from her for one week since she was born.

I have at least 10 months to come to a good feeling about letting her go, or less than that if it takes much time to get a passport. I think at 5 she may be able to go for a month, but at 3, I am not sure she'd understand what was going on.  She also doesn't speak Turkish, but we're working on learning it because even if she doesn't go to Turkey, she should be able to speak to her grandparents. If and when she does go to Turkey, I think she'll be better off if she can communicate.

He hasn't been insistent (other than IF he goes, it needs to be longer than 2 weeks.) and I really want to be considerate of him and his family.  I can't get over how 30 days is a huge block out of a 3 year old's life. 

He hasn't offered to take me with him, but if he did, that would get rid of many of my reservations.

My sister pointed out that her stepson's mother in Germany will ONLY let her 12 year old  come to the states if she comes and stays with him.  I would expect it would be awkward to have my husband's ex-wife move in for a few weeks, which is what she has done at least 2 times in the past 4 years.

[newbiemama09]

i haven't done any extended trips myself, but my biggest concerns would be: being away from a child that long; general safety of the trip (esp. since there was just a flash flood in Turkey); the logistics of the trip itself (flying, layovers, cabs, etc). i'm not sure if i would worry about the father abducting the child, but it's alwasy a possibility that the trip would get delayed/extended because "oh i just wanted one more week with her here".

i think she's just too young to take such a long and far away trip. if she was staying in the states, that would be one thing. but a cross-ocean-hundreds of miles really concerns me. i do believe a court would back you up regarding inter-national trips if you can concern for cause.

best of luck! it's a tough decision, even just to think about it!

[newbiemama09]

PLUS think of how hard it would be on your daughter!! to go on such a long trip with her father, who she doesn't primarly live with, leave her mother, meet all kinds of strange people in a completely different enviornment. i think it would be emotionally very hard for her, especially at night. the trip can wait a few years.  

[Petie1104]

I'm going to throw my two cents in, but I'm not sure if it's even worth two cents. 

A child at 3 can pick up on a language fairly easily.  My dss's mom has a son with a Kazakstani man and about the time the child was 2.5 or 3 they started taking him to Kazakstan for that reason.  It took about 2 to 3 weeks for the child to start picking up the language, and then they would stay for another 2 months (usually 3 months at a time) so that the child could really start speaking the language confidently.  Now, at 5, it takes longer for them to pick it up, so for your daughter to start being able to communicate with her grandparents it would take longer than a month to do so.

I don't know what his reasoning is for taking her for a month, but it seems more plausible if he is trying to immerse her into the language so that she can communicate with her grandparents.  If that is the case, then 2 weeks wouldn't be long enough for THAT purpose.

With that said, I don't know what I'd do.  If I trusted him, I'd probably let her go.  I just like traveling and I don't think I could keep my kids from experiencing a new culture, especially if it's the culture of one of their parents.

[Petie1104]

Oh, I wanted to add that it is easy for me to say that I'd let my child go because my child doesn't have that possibility.  If I'm ever in your position, I'd like to think I would do that, but I'm not sure if I'd be strong enough to let them go. 

[Birdie B.]

I am also not in your position, or likely to ever be, but I think I would let her go.  I don't understand why people seem to think that a child's relationship with her father is not as important as one with her mother.  If you trust him to take good care of her and to bring her back, then she should be fine.  Of course, the optimal thing would be for you to go too, if you can.  30 days is a long time to go without seeing each other. Although I know lots of divorced parents who share custody face these things.

I have several close friends who are Turkish, and I have traveled there with them.  It seems like when my friends go to visit their families, or the families come here, it is rarely for less than a month.  I don't know why, but that jsut seems like how they do it.  It is a long way to travel, and when you haven't seen your parents or siblings for years, 2 weeks is a pretty short visit.  Turkey is a safe country, relatively speaking, and in my opinion people are friendly open and caring. 

It sounds like a tough decision. Good luck OP!

[Super~Single~Mama]

No way.  ESPECIALLY if you have a bad gut feeling about it.  I wouldn't trust Turkey to uphold the Hague Convention, and I wouldn't get her a passport, or agree to him getting her one (both of you have to sign, or there are alternative ways, but basically both parents have to provide consent), and if you DO get her a passport, make sure YOU are the holder of it.

ETA - after seeing what Birdie said, I feel like I should qualify my statement.  My ds turned 2 yesterday, and has a wonderful relationship with his father.  He spends EOW with him (3days/nights) and one night on the off weeks.  He has stayed with his dad for 1week (plus or minus a day) 3 times already and has done WONDERFULLY (and in a year or 2, a month would not be outside my comfort zone I don't think).  I would trust my ex to take ds across state lines, but NOT out of country.  Why?  B/c if he left the country with DS, and decided not to come back, even if the country HAD signed the Hague Convention and ratified it, it would be the BIGGEST PITA to get ds back to the US.  I'm not willing to go through that, or put my ds through that.  Under ANY circumstances, family or not.

I too would like to think that I trust my ex wholeheartedly, and that he would come back for sure, and that everything would be peachy, but I can't.  The risks are way too high.  Now, if your dd was 15 or 16 that would be an entirely different question.

[gbailey]

I don't think PP's suggested the relationship with the father is not as important as it was for the mama. If the father were the full time parent and the mom wanted to take DD away from him for a full month I would tell him he shouldn't allow it. I'd be concerned for a mother with an ex partner, who she says does not even like her, taking their child away for a month to a country that she has never been to and separated from the primary parent. OP's ex may not be in the least bit interested in never returning with their DD but the truth is parental abduction is at an all time high especially of children born to parents who are natives of another country. Personally, I would not be okay with this trip and would not sign off on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdie B. 

I am also not in your position, or likely to ever be, but I think I would let her go.  I don't understand why people seem to think that a child's relationship with her father is not as important as one with her mother.  If you trust him to take good care of her and to bring her back, then she should be fine.  Of course, the optimal thing would be for you to go too, if you can.  30 days is a long time to go without seeing each other. Although I know lots of divorced parents who share custody face these things.

I have several close friends who are Turkish, and I have traveled there with them.  It seems like when my friends go to visit their families, or the families come here, it is rarely for less than a month.  I don't know why, but that jsut seems like how they do it.  It is a long way to travel, and when you haven't seen your parents or siblings for years, 2 weeks is a pretty short visit.  Turkey is a safe country, relatively speaking, and in my opinion people are friendly open and caring. 

It sounds like a tough decision. Good luck OP!

[Katielady]

Originally Posted by Petie1104 

.... but I'm not sure if I'd be strong enough to let them go. 

I think it's more a question of having the strength not to let her go.

[Smithie]

I think that most 3-year-olds are perfectly capable of spending a month with their dad and his family and having a wonderful time. I would not hesitate to send my DD on a 30-day adventure with her father. 

But a child of unmarried parents where one of them is a foreign national? That's very different. I wouldn't agree for my child to have a passport in that circumstance until she was much, much older. Like 15. 13 minimum. She has to be old enough to aggressively seek help if she's kidnapped. 

I'd say apologize, promise to sign off on a passport later in your DD's life so that she can visit Turkey if she wishes, and make it clear that if what he wants is a long vacation with your DD, that you are open to that provided he stays in the USA. This isn't about not valuing the relationship between dad and daughter - it's about not sending your child off to a place from which you cannot get her back! 

[transylvania_mom]

at that age, me and my ds took a trip to Europe to visit his grandparents. I left after a month, he stayed for one more month without me.

Ds had a great time; it was one of the very few times he had the chance to know his grandparents and other relatives. We have no family here, so it was important for us to let him know he has a large family who loves him very much.

I understand the point of not wanting a less than 30 days stay. Our trip took 24 hours one way, then it took ds a couple of days to get used to the new time zone. If it had been a two-week trip, we should have started packing our bags by then.

However, I'm not sure I'd let him travel if dh and I were separated.

[mamatoablessing]

Originally Posted by gbailey 

I don't think PP's suggested the relationship with the father is not as important as it was for the mama. If the father were the full time parent and the mom wanted to take DD away from him for a full month I would tell him he shouldn't allow it. I'd be concerned for a mother with an ex partner, who she says does not even like her, taking their child away for a month to a country that she has never been to and separated from the primary parent. OP's ex may not be in the least bit interested in never returning with their DD but the truth is parental abduction is at an all time high especially of children born to parents who are natives of another country. Personally, I would not be okay with this trip and would not sign off on it.

I really agree with gbailey here.  I have a very uncomfortable feeling in my stomach just thinking about the lack of control you will have if something happens while she's gone - i.e. medical issues, stranger abductions, parental abductions, exposure to people you wouldn't normally allow around your children,  or just your daughter's general sadness about being away from her mommy for that long. 

Your daughter's father cannot get her a passport without you if you have sole legal custody.  If you have joint, both of you must be present or a notarized letter from the missing parent must be provided:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/minors/minors_834.html

One Parent (with sole legal custody) MUST:

Appear in person with the minor Sign Form DS-11 in front of an Acceptance Agent Submit primary evidence of sole authority to apply for the child with one of the following: Minor's certified U.S. or foreign birth certificate listing only the applying parent Consular Report of Birth Abroad (Form FS-240) or Certification of Birth Abroad (Form DS-1350) listing only the applying parent Court order granting sole custody to the applying parent (unless child's travel is restricted by that order) Adoption decree (if applying parents is sole adopting parent) Court order specifically permitting applying parent's or guardian's travel with the child Judicial declaration of incompetence of non-applying parent Death certificate of non-applying parent NOTE: If none of the above documentation is available, the applying parent must submit Form DS-3053 stating why the non-applying parent/guardian's consent cannot be obtained

Good luck, OP.  I would not want to be in your shoes regarding this situation....

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by Alyantavid 

Regardless of the situation with her father, there is no way I would be away from my 3 year old for a month.  I'd let her go in a few years  Though I can totally see his side, I personally couldn't be away from my kid for that long.

I would also be very worried that he may decide to not bring her back but I am paranoid like that