Crying, need help

[mahiisland]

Hi there.  Just had my midwife appointment.  Baby still not here 41w5d.  Agreed to a membrane sweep.  Midwife tired, but could not reach my cervix.  Apparently baby is just not down there enough.  She stated wondering what the problem is.  I have had cramps and BH since 37 weeks, so we have thought we would have this baby a long time ago!  So now we are wondering what the problem might be. Midwife is not sure that the baby has not gone breech again, she thinks it is head down, but just not sure.  It is lateral posterior in any case.  I decided to go in for a little ultrasound tomorrow lunchtime to see what the problem is.  If it is breech, they just want to do a csection pretty quickly, there is no one that is qualified to do a breech for a FTM apparently.  

Before the midwife did the internal check we were thinking about getting an induction with the prostaglandin cream sometime early next week, my midwife is lovely and has really been trying to get me the natural, waterbirth, hypnobabies homebirth that I have wanted.  It jsut seemed to all go south today.  First I was trying to get my head around an induction, although she said they would just do the gel, and try like crazy to avoid pitocin.  So that is when I decided the membrane sweep sounded good for today, but when we tried she found the baby was not where it was supposed to be.  That was my first internal check, they are a lot less interventionist here. 

I got a lot of plug out yesterday.  I have been losing plug since 37 weeks, and getting some great practice runs!  But it seems like something may be wrong as my body is trying so hard to get the baby out but nothing is happening. baby is just not low enough to push on cervix.  I just don't understand what.  Been looking after my health and researching like crazy to try to give baby the best birth possible and I don't even understand this.  Tried so long to conceive too, thought that was hard enough, did not realize it would be such a challenge to get baby out too!  So I am just confused and upset, I need some time to process all of this.  Don't know what is wrong or what I can do about it.  Will be just so heartbroken to get a csection, been trying so hard to do everything to avoid it, prepare myself and be educated, but right now I just don't know which way is up. 

And on top of that the damn chiro is closed today, was planning just to run there for help!  But baby seems healthy, active and is kicking like crazy, so that is good.  I know the most important thing is a healthy baby, it is just so hard to get my head around nature maybe just not going right or not being able to give my baby that 'ideal' birth.  Any feedback?  I just don't know what to think right now, just too upset.  Thanks.

[Climbergirl]

Big hugs!  That is so hard and I wish you were not going through that.  I think the first thing you need to do is take a deep breath.  Nothing is set in stone until they have you on the operating table.  It sounds like your midwife is doing everything she can.  Hopefully, the ultrasound will give you some answers so you can figure out a path forward. 

Can you do some more natural induction methods?  Has she suggested anything like that?  Do you have an acupuncturist that could help?

Have you done a fear cleansing session with this new info?

I think you have to let go of the ideal birth.  You have done so much to bring a healthy baby into this world and I feel confident that you will.  And I disagree with the "only thing that matters is a healthy baby".  The only thing that matters is a healthy baby and mom.  To me, that also mean a birth that is respectful and empowering to you (regardless of the type of birth).  You can have an empowered c-section and maybe to help you calm your fears, you can discuss that possibility with your midwife.

As much as I hated DS1's birth, that birth changed me in such a good way.  I know now that I HAD to go through that experience to become the mom I am.  And DS2's birth was everything I wanted it to be.  But my idea of an ideal birth before DS1 totally changed before DS2.  I truly believe that things happen for a reason.  And the more I allow some of that to happen, the more I realize how true that is.  Sorry, I know this sounds hokey and corny, but it is how I feel.

Good luck tomorrow!

[sarahn4639]

1st thing that comes to mind is, how sure of your dates are you?  do you know when you ovulated?  if it's possible that you may not be as far along as you are, that can buy you some time.  even if you are positive i wouldn't panic quite yet, well I'd try not to at least. 

I would see the chiro on the way to the u/s tomorrow.  are there any acupuncturists around?  acupuncture has a really good showing for labor induction.  if the baby is breech i'd try acupuncture and moxi buxtion (my spelling is off on this) before a c/s. 

i agree with climbergirl that a healthy baby is not the *only* thing that matters.  A live and healthy mom is also very important.  Emotional health is also important.  Don't feel guilty or selfish for mourning a *possible* (certainly FAR from lost at this point!!) loss of your ideal birth.  Many people don't understand how important and transformational a birth is to a mother.  A c/s birth can be just as empowering as an "ideal" birth if the mother is empowered and an active participant in the process. 

It sounds like your mw is supporting you and working to help you have the birth you want, that's awesome!  A good care provider is a wonderful thing! 

I would recommend doing a fear release session, seeing a chiro and acupuncturist, and push for more time.  let us know how things go tomorrow and if there is anything we can do!!!

many good thoughts and virtual hugs for you!!!

[owlgirl]

I agree with Sarah and Climbergirl on everything!  Especially re: the accuracy of the dates. I am curious as to the positioning of the baby. Have you looked into herbal inductions? Having lots of sex? Nipple stimulation? Maybe once the u/s is done and you know the position isn't breech you can work on these other options to get baby out. Patience and trust in the process, sending you good thoughts and strength during this hard time!! Good luck and keep us posted!!

[elisheva]

ddcc...

With both my last two births, my mw (normal size, normal length fingers :) hasn't been able to reach my cervix ON THE DAY THEY WERE BORN. So I went from babe-not-engaged to a vaginal homebirth inside of twelve hours. Bodies do things differently. 

[mahiisland]

Thanks mamas, you women are wonderful!

I am completely sure of my dates, I have a computer program that was recording my fertility with temp charting so I know exactly when I ovulated (April8) and when we had sex. 

I don't listen to doctors often, but I had a lot of respect for my midwife when she told me that many babies over 42 weeks come out a bit skinny with worn placentas.  It is just anecdotal, but she has been around a while.  So that got me nervous, don't want to be starving the baby!  That is why I figured I would do an u/s, been avoiding them so far, using a fetoscope.

If you turned down an induction, how did you overcome fear that something was not right?  How did you know when your body was working and to let the baby come out when ready, and how do you know when you need help?  How did you tough mamas go past 42 weeks and not get freaked out?

What is this gel prostaglandin stuff?  The midwife said they would apply it every 6 hours for up to 3 times, with monitoring to make sure baby is ok.  I am surprised I don't really know anythng about it.  My midwife said that she will try that first as it gets most women going, rather than the pitocin induction. It does not sound that bad to me, but I am currently uninformed! I don't like the monitoring that goes with it though.  What do you natural mamas think of it? 

Is membrane sweeping ok?  it sounds pretty harmless to me at this late stage!

Surely the baby will engage?  Don't they have to?  My belly is dropping, I lose plug, I mean, stuff is happening!  It is not like my body forgot it was pregnant!

And darn it, the acupuncturists are all on vacation till next week!  And the chiro was shut this one day that I went to town (I live in the middle of nowhere...)  Oh well, trying a shiatsu massage chair tonight, will walk and crawl and all that stuff, and try to get a decent night's sleep.  This 9.5 month preggie thing is hard work!  Why don't you mamas complain more to warn us first timers ;-)?.....

Sorry for all the questions, but thank you so much for your support!!!

[coraljean]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I have been there. Both of my babies went over 42 weeks. With my first, Dylan, I went to 42 weeks 3 days (but the midwives had a date 3 days later so they thought I was only 42 weeks). They had a strict transfer at 42 week policy, which was really stressful as you know from what you are going through. With my first I eventually went into labor after castor oil, etc. He ended up being born by c-section after a long pushing phase. I think all of the stress about trying to rush to get him out contributed to the c-section honestly. I felt like they were trying to rush my labor the whole time, and rushed me into pushing before I felt an urge. This time I actually went to 42 weeks 5 days. The baby was the same exact size and came out just fine even though he had a nuchal arm. The big difference to me was that nobody was rushing me this time. If I could go back in time to my first birth, I think I would decide not to let their conception of when babies are supposed to be born bother me so much, and if I went past their cutoff I would probably just not show up for a medical induction. Easier said than done though, I know.

Anyways, here are some thoughts:

- Just because you haven't gone into labor yet, it doesn't mean anything is wrong. Some of us just go late. Do you know how many weeks your mother and grandmother were when they gave birth?

- If you get a good idea of the babies position you can see what you can do to change that around. Have you looked at the spinning babies site? Sitting on a birth ball is really good too.

- Have you thought about trying castor oil. It is what I eventually did with both my babies, and it seem to put me into labor both times, although this last time it worked so quickly that my midwife thinks maybe I was just going to go into labor anyways. It is kind of gross, but it's not really that bad. It is just a laxative basically. My midwife instructed me to take 2oz in a milk shake in the morning, and then another 2oz 3 hours later. I didn't need the second dose this time though.

- The ultrasound will give you a good idea of how the baby is doing, so hopefully that will be reassuring. The best indicator you have of how your baby is doing is really baby's movement. A lot of people will try to make you worried about going past 42 weeks. How do you feel baby is doing? With my first I was worried because everyone else was worried, but deep down I knew my baby was fine, and I was right. A lot of the other people are partly just worried about themselves and their own liability, so just keep that in mind when they are trying to scare you.

- The chiropractor would be great if you can go to them. If it is just a misalignment or something keeping baby up high, I think chiropractic would probably work better than acupuncture anyways.

- Membrane sweeps didn't work for me the first time, but I don't think they are really harmful. I understand wanting to do everything you can to avoid medical induction.

- If you want to talk to other moms who have gone so late and others who have had c-sections, the ICAN yahoogroup can be a great source of support: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICAN-online/ There are a lot of people on there who have gone past 42 weeks. There are also a lot of people on there who have had c-sections and can help you prepare if it turns out baby is breech and you decide to go that route.

- Don't forget: This is your body, and your baby. Everyone else is making recommendations, but YOU are the one who gets to make all final decisions. Just because someone says you need to be induced, etc. does not mean that you have to do what they tell you. You can always put them off "Oh, that is not a good day for me, lets do it in a few days" or get a flat tire on the way, or have a family emergency, etc.

- Some babies just don't engage until labor starts.

Good luck! Please feel free to be in touch with me if you need support from another 42 week plus mom!

Coral Jean

[mckittre]

That sounds hard!  I only went to 42+1, and never had a cervical check until labor, but it was hard to go against the grain and wait that long.  In my case, I consented to the biophysical profile (ultrasound where they looked at the placenta and fluid volume, etc...), and the non-stress test.  The fact that those were absolutely perfect, and the intuition I had that my baby was just fine (moving around as much as ever, etc...) gave me the confidence to keep going.  I was going to try the castor oil at 42w, but at that point, I was having bloody show and a few contractions, so I was able to trust that things would happen soon.

It was helpful to me to think about how any risks of going post-dates would be increasing slowly over time - not magically kicking in once the 42 week "magic number" was past.  The answer doesn't have to be all or nothing.  If you think baby's OK, you can wait a couple more days, then think about it again after that, etc... 

Another helpful thing was to remind myself that not having gone into labor yet didn't mean it was less likely to happen soon - it meant it was MORE likely to happen soon. 

For what it's worth, my 42+1 girl had a perfect placenta and looked just like a 40 weeker according to my midwife (and my dates could have been a little off, but not by more than a few days). 

[lawmama1984]

Originally Posted by sarahn4639 

1st thing that comes to mind is, how sure of your dates are you?  do you know when you ovulated?  if it's possible that you may not be as far along as you are, that can buy you some time.  even if you are positive i wouldn't panic quite yet, well I'd try not to at least. 

I would see the chiro on the way to the u/s tomorrow.  are there any acupuncturists around?  acupuncture has a really good showing for labor induction.  if the baby is breech i'd try acupuncture and moxi buxtion (my spelling is off on this) before a c/s. 

i agree with climbergirl that a healthy baby is not the *only* thing that matters.  A live and healthy mom is also very important.  Emotional health is also important.  Don't feel guilty or selfish for mourning a *possible* (certainly FAR from lost at this point!!) loss of your ideal birth.  Many people don't understand how important and transformational a birth is to a mother.  A c/s birth can be just as empowering as an "ideal" birth if the mother is empowered and an active participant in the process. 

It sounds like your mw is supporting you and working to help you have the birth you want, that's awesome!  A good care provider is a wonderful thing! 

I would recommend doing a fear release session, seeing a chiro and acupuncturist, and push for more time.  let us know how things go tomorrow and if there is anything we can do!!!

many good thoughts and virtual hugs for you!!!

This. I never thought I would type this, but I had the *best* c/s experience with my 2nd son 2 weeks and a day ago. I had my heart set on a HB and I labored at home for 2 days before we transferred, but I had a simply amazing birth experience. I thought for sure I would be devastated, but I had such a powerful and beautiful birth. I hope you don't wind up with a c/s, but please allow yourself to be open to the possibility that it doesn't have to be devastating. Mine was even under general anesthesia and I still feel awesome about it! Big (((hugs))), I know this is such an emotional time for you

[northcountrymamma]

So many hugs mamma while you process all of this. There are some excellent details already listed on here about how you can still trust that going past 42w doesn't have to mean induction. It is your baby and your body and YOU get to make the decisions. And it is so true that a healthy baby is NOT the only thing that is important as you being healthy in mind body and spirit ALSO contributes to the healthy baby that you have been preparing for.

As far as using prostoglandins for induction...I've gone that route and while it may have brought on my labour with dd, it brought on a long (42hrs active) struggled labour with many issues and a baby born in the posterior position. If baby is in a posterior position, I especially wouldn't recommend it. But all that said, I was able to ward off continuous monitoring and other interventions that they wanted to do to speed things up. My take...dd just wasn't ready to come out and didn't need that encouragement. Really read up on what they want to use as well...I later found out that the misoprostol they used was a very bad idea and may have contributed to some uterine conditions that I now have. It is risky stuff and some of them are not meant for use for cervical inductions. I only had one application of the prostiglandin though...which makes me wonder if she is going to use something else. If you can find out what it is called...there is a lot of info on the web that you can check out. 

http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/cytotecwagner.asp

this is one article on the misoprostol...the other one that is traditionally used is cervidil. I don't have a link for it though. 

I do have to wonder though...what good would softening the cervix with a prostiglandin do if the baby is still way up high. It sounds like baby needs to drop first, not the cervix needing to ripen. My midwife mentioned something like this when we were talking about baby's high up position before he dropped...she indicated that there was no sense in doing anything to the cervix (we were talking about membrane sweeps) because baby was so high it wouldn't change the outcome.

 if you can get into that chiro...definitely do it.  With this birth, ds was sitting WAY up high until I started seeing the chiro (at 40+5) and her adjustments I believe without a doubt made the space he needed to drop down and be born, I only saw her twice too.  Also, homeopathic pulsatilla might help to get baby into position.

Again, so many hugs and blessings for you to find peace with whatever comes of this baby's birth...baby WILL come...and maybe it will be super late, maybe it will be born in a way you weren't expecting or desiring...but I hope that YOU are able to make that decision...not be forced into any choice that comes. 

And try to keep excited that you are going to meet this baby soon!!!

[jr'smom]

Just wanted to chime in because I'm always one who goes quite late too and I remember the frustration and impatience that I feel.  My inspiration is a friend of mine who always goes 43-44 weeks!  She's had all of her babies (3) at home and is expecting another this summer. Good luck! 

[mahiisland]

Update!  Well the u/s went well!  My MIL heard the OB and the midwife discussing my case just before the u/s, and the OB says "well how about an induction?" and my midwife says "Don't even mention it!".  So he did not.  He was super encouraging, respected my wishes to use the machine as little as possible, it was probably only on me for a minute or two all up. He just zoomed in, got his measurements and took the wand off.  It was great!  blood flow, placenta, fluids and baby all looked great.  And LO kicked up a storm again impressing the heck out of both midwife and OB with the activity level.  No, that is not a starving child in there they decided.  (Bloody hell, they could listen to me on that one, I know my baby is active!)  Baby est at 7.5 lbs - that is not huge for 2 weeks over!

So OB says lots of nice things about my health and tells me there is no worries going longer if that is what I want.  Felt so good about that!  It is funny though, I visualised this meeting turning out like that.  I was nervous the night before imagining terror csection scenes and when I realized what I was doing I stopped! - and then started imagining nice happy appointments where everything is fine and no one is hassling me, and that is what happened!  I slept better that night too - go teh power of the mind when we remember to use it!

I am following all of your advice - saw the osteopath for adjustments today, have been on the herbs (blue cohosh, mugwort ect) since yesterday, even had an energy healer "talk the baby down"...   Trying all the acupressure points, still walking several miles a day, eating hot curries, sex, EPO...  Monday we will go acupuncture if we don't manage to have a weekend baby and Tues will be castor oil day (next midwife app Tues afternoon). (We are a day ahead of you BTW).

Anyway, this morning lost lots more plug, and have been cramping and BH like crazy all day, so it has to start soon - doesn't it?????.......

Baby will go down won't he/she?  I mean, I don't need medical help to get baby to go with gravity do I?.... 

Anyway, feeling much more empowered and in control.  Just lost it with fear that one day.  We will keep checking on baby's health and listening to our intuition and trying not to get freaked out by "authority figures". 

Thanks Mamas!

[sarahn4639]

congrats!!!  i've been checking for an update from you!!  my 1st 2 babies didn't drop until very late in labor, pushing even with my 1st!  most babies drop, but not all.  i'm so happy to hear a good update!