this sucks

[turtle2who]

I hate sharing my baby with his dad. I know I have to. I know this is just the way it is now. I know I am the one who chose to leave him. I was so miserable at the time that the idea of sharing him didn't seem like a big deal. But I hate it!  I just need to whine about this to people who know how much it SUCKS!

When we were together we both got to see him every day.  I was with him 24/7. The one who comforted him in the night. The one who held him when he was sick.  The one who made his meals and packed his lunchbox and took him just about everywhere I went. His dad chose not to go with us on museum trips and to birthday parties. His dad chose to spend 5 hours a day 3 days a week playing golf, then worked late into the night to make up for missed time working.  He basically spent 20 minutes sitting next to him on the couch in the morning playing iphone games, then came home and ate dinner with him at night. Sometimes he read him a story at bedtime- because our counselor told him to.

Now that we don't live together he only gets to eat dinner with him 4 nights a week. Only gets to wake up with him 1 morning a week. And chooses not to read him a story the one night a week and random others here and there that he sleeps over. But he actually spends more time with him since he picks him up from school every Tuesday and Thursday and keeps him till 7.  Then has him from 5 on saturday until 7 on Sunday.

And I've been okay with that.  The split weekend visitation was ex's idea because he had to work Saturdays- and we have all liked it.  But now ex has a new gf and her kids have every other weekend visitation and so he wants that too.  And he wants to pick up ds at school on Friday and keep him until Monday morning when he plans to drop him off at school. And I hate that idea.  I hate that I wouldn't see him from Friday morning until Monday afternoon! (Then he'll go back to his dad's Tuesday and Thursday evenings.) I would never ask ex to go that long without seeing his son. But he's choosing it for himself and me. He sees him every other day now.  Why would he want to go 4 days without seeing him every other week? 

He says things like- now you'll see how it feels to be me and be away from him for days at a time. And I say- YOU SEE HIM EVERY OTHER DAY!  Ugh.  I just hate this that's all.  Everything he asks for I worry that he is trying to set the stage to ask for more.  I worry about things he hasn't even asked for yet! Like if I say yes to the sleeping over till monday morning will he then ask for sleepovers on Tuesday and Thursday as well? His gf's ex has that arrangement- and I know that is where he's getting his ideas because he was fine with the arrangement we had- he ASKED for it to be that way!

But we don't have any kind of legal agreement at this point. Just a verbal agreement. On one hand I want to say no to his request because I don't think it is best for any of us. But another part of me wants to agree just to stay out of court. I read stories here involving crazy judges and think- if I get one of those my ex might get 50/50 custody or something which would be even worse!   I know I'm rambling- sorry. I have days like this every now and then- rambling worrying days . . . .  Thanks for "listening." :-)

[MamitaM]

I'm sorry. I feel the same way about sharing. I don't share my son with his father and I hope I never have to. 

[turtle2who]

The first thing I wanted to say was- You're so lucky!  But I do realize that my son loves and needs his dad and I don't really want to take that away from him.  I just HATE worrying about what he's going to ask for next and worrying that if I agree to his "request" will it set a precedent so that if we end up in court the judge will say- well this is the way it's been so we'll just keep it that way? I hate the idea of ds sleeping at his dad's on Sunday night,  Ex has never been able to get ds to bed at a reasonable time and he has come home overtired every single time he's spent just one night at his dad's. Now ex wants him to spend 3 nights, then drive him to school across 4 towns and through city rush hour traffic on Monday morning.  What a way to start the school week.

But I'm afraid to go to court. I am unemployed and totally broke so can't hire a lawyer. If we go to court and ex hires one, I will get a free one.  I'm in CT and people don't customarily have 50/50 here but who know what a judge would decide if ex pushed it?

[MamitaM]

I hope your x realizes how hard that would be on your son. Maybe when it's explained or when he tries it then he'll understand.

I do feel very lucky for the most part, but my babes father did just threaten me so now I have some moments where I'm scared he may make good on his threat and do something illegal and make it so I'd never see mt son again. He's never met him and doesn't know a thing about him, he doesn't even know that he's a boy. I'm hoping it stays this way and that he backs off b/c I really, really do not want to share at all.

[doubledutch]

does he still work on saturdays?  if so, there is nooooooo way i'd agree to it!  if he's no longer working saturdays, i'd try to compromise.  i'd offer e-o-w but make it 48 hours, either 5pm friday to 5pm sunday; or 8am saturday to 8am monday.  that way it's only two overnights.  you might also want to suggest dropping to one weeknight visit rather than two.

how does the current arrangement seem to be working for your baby?

[turtle2who]

My baby is actually 5 1/2- lol- and he loves it the way it is.  It is very predictable and he knows that he will always be able to see his dad "tomorrow." He can tell anyone who asks when he will see me or dad.  I have told him about the proposed change and he as said he doesn't want it to be different- he likes it the way it is. 

Ex says he will not be working Saturdays anymore- he will be telling his guys they will have to fill in one saturday a month and they will get a day off during the week.  His guys are actually my two brothers!  And they have both said they do not want to work weekends and they are going to tell him that.  We'll see.  At least if they say no I will know it and can tell him that I want the right of first refusal if he has to work on the weekend.

[doubledutch]

lol, i have a 5yo baby too. 

if you qualify for legal aid, sign up now, in case there is a waiting list.  that way, if/when he takes you to court for a formal custody agreement you are ready; or you file for one yourself. 

i guess you have to decide whether you are going to say yes (which you definitely don't want to do), say no and risk going to court (which you also sound afraid of, although in all likelihood the court would order something similar to what you're doing now or a compromise between that and what he wants), or find a compromise that you're both happy with and maybe avoid court. 

[Jmagsmommy06]

This is just my opinion because I have BTDT .... I don't know your situation so this can be altered if needed but ... Get a job if nothing else PT to hire a GOOD attorney ... when you have the money saved, hire a lawyer and file a petition for full custody allowing dad to have visitation. If he is not already paying you child support then you need to push that issue as well. I tried to be nice and get along without getting the courts involved for almost 2 years and it didn't do anything but cause me grief, emotionally and financially. The only difference in you and I is I work, I actually had to work 2 jobs to support myself and my son because my ex said he couldn't afford to help me financially. He is now paying me child support and has our son 80 days a year and I have him 285. We are going to mediation again and will probably end up having to go to court and let the judge decide because he now wants full custody and wants to "play" daddy and family now that he is married and it seems as though that's what she wants. Also .... DOCUMENT everything and be very very careful what you say to your ex or in front of your child. Go ahead and assume Everything you say and do is being monitored and documented as well because chances are ... IT IS !!!  Write down dates ect and just keep a journal for yourself. And when I say everything, I mean everything ! You may never need to use it, but trust me ... these things get VERY ugly and when you think you know someone, you better think again because they turn into demons when they want something and have someone else forcing the issue. Good luck ! 

[turtle2who]

thanks doubledutch! I have actually already contacted legal services and because I am currently unemployed I do qualify for help.  At this point I can get free legal advice and if we go to court AND ex hires an attorney I would qualify for a free attorney.  If I find a job before then, I may not qualify for an attorney- but at this point I do. And I have already printed out all of the custody/visitation paperwork from the state website and filled it all out in case I need to file it at a moment's notice.

You are right- I do NOT want to say yes to the monday drop off at school because I do not think it is best for my son.  AND I worry that if I agree to that the next thing he'll want is weeknight sleepovers on his tuesday and thursday visits. And if I don't agree he'll threaten court again and if we go to court the judge will say- well he sleeps over on school nights already so why not? 

I honestly just really like things the way they have been up till now. I wish we could just leave it this way- but if we can't then I think a compromise would be the fair way to go. And in my mind every other weekend with pick up on Sunday evening is a compromise. But he will not agree to that.  We have gone back and forth on it.  He thinks I am not bending because I won't agree to his demand- he doesn't see my sunday night suggestion as a compromise.

He has now suggested a different compromise- he has ds one full weekend a month Friday thru Monday morning and I have him one full weekend, and the other two weekends we split like we have been. I don't love the idea because it seems hard for ds to follow and remember.  And it still involves ds waking up at his house on a school day- although it's only one day a month- I still worry about the whole thing with the judge saying- well he sleeps over on a school night now so why not more if he wants it? 

Part of me would really just like to go to court and get it all decided and written out and legal- done once and for all.  But ex has made me fear court.  He has money for a lawyer and when angry- he has threatened that he will lose his business fighting me. If I force this to court- he will feel attacked and will torture me any way he can. I also know that how things go depends a lot on the judge we get. And once we go to court we lose a lot of control- everything gets decided for us.

With his older kids, he only had tuesday dinner and EOW friday to monday morning.  When we split he was happy to get two dinners a week and he asked for the split weekend.  Then he met the gf whose ex gets the kids for sleepovers  2 night during the school week AND EOW from friday to monday. Now he wants EOW and I worry that he will try to set the precedent for weekday sleepovers. And i worry that if we do go to court he will be so mad that he might even try to get 50/50 or something. 

How likely is any of this really?  Does anyone even know?  I'm a worrier. , . .

[turtle2who]

Originally Posted by Jmagsmommy06 

This is just my opinion because I have BTDT .... I don't know your situation so this can be altered if needed but ... Get a job if nothing else PT to hire a GOOD attorney ... when you have the money saved, hire a lawyer and file a petition for full custody allowing dad to have visitation. If he is not already paying you child support then you need to push that issue as well. I tried to be nice and get along without getting the courts involved for almost 2 years and it didn't do anything but cause me grief, emotionally and financially. The only difference in you and I is I work, I actually had to work 2 jobs to support myself and my son because my ex said he couldn't afford to help me financially. He is now paying me child support and has our son 80 days a year and I have him 285. We are going to mediation again and will probably end up having to go to court and let the judge decide because he now wants full custody and wants to "play" daddy and family now that he is married and it seems as though that's what she wants. Also .... DOCUMENT everything and be very very careful what you say to your ex or in front of your child. Go ahead and assume Everything you say and do is being monitored and documented as well because chances are ... IT IS !!!  Write down dates ect and just keep a journal for yourself. And when I say everything, I mean everything ! You may never need to use it, but trust me ... these things get VERY ugly and when you think you know someone, you better think again because they turn into demons when they want something and have someone else forcing the issue. Good luck ! 

Unfortunately I have been searching for full time work for months with no luck.  Right now I am substitute teaching and living with my mom who was laid off in August then hit by a car in November- so has lost her unemployment benefits. I am the only wage earner in the house and the tiny bit I get from substitute teaching when I can- along with child support- pays my bills and utilities and buys us food. Rent is not getting paid and mom's bills are not getting paid. If I get a better job the money I'd make is already spent- and I probably would lose the free lawyer I qualify for now.

Thanks for the advice about documenting. I HAVE been doing that since we split actually. Although I do sometimes miss things I know.  I had gotten really good at writing everything on the calendar as it happened. The the holidays got busy and the new calendar year started and I lost the flow.  I do need to catch up on that though.  And I have started thinking about the fact that he may be documenting as well.  He is incredibly disorganized and has zero ability to plan things in advance which makes me think he's incapable of documenting- but now that gf is in the picture- things are different.  I have a feeling he's trying to set the stage to say that pickups and drop offs are difficult and that's why he wants to pickup and drop off at school.  I think this because of things he's said.  And stupid me- got annoyed at him yesterday when he was supposed to get ds home and there was drama.  It was only a few texts but afterwards I was like- doh! 
 

[Jmagsmommy06]

Hopefully something will come up and you will be able to get a better paying job. So he does pay child support? You don't have to say how much, but have you by chance gone by your state's calculator comparing your income to his and making sure it's enough. As far as the documenting... good for you .. and I totally understand falling behind or forgetting ... you have a 5yo for crying out loud lol.  My ex was never organized ect and I was surprised with some things, however his new wife is the brains behind it all so to speak and she is the one who has in my opinion caused the drama ... has nothing to do with jealousy cause for one I left him for a reason and 2 I wouldn't have him back if he was the last man standing ... However the fact he allows her to dictate how things are done with OUR son really gets me and makes me want to do and say not so nice things. He denies it has anything to do with her but it's not that coincidental that as soon as she stepped in his life he wanted to start changing things ect and then accused me of alot of crap. And to top it off, she is majoring in child psychology ... doesn't have any kids but evidently thinks she know how to raise everyone elses. Not gonna happen here. Anyway, not sure how I got on that but ... I would make sure if you haven't already he is paying you enough, and think very seriously about going ahead with court proceedings because if you file first, it may be the best. 

[turtle2who]

Yes he pays child support.  For the first few months he was actually still paying for my iphone, my health insurance, and letting me use the credit card for gas- plus giving me $800 a month- which was VERY generous. Then he got mad at me because I wouldn't agree to his new visitation plan and threatened court and canceled my credit card and threatened to cancel my phone.  So I went out and got my own phone.  He still pays for my health insurance but I am working on getting the state insurance right now so i can totally disentangle myself from him.  But yes- he gives me $800 a month for one kid- the child support calculator for my state said $793 month. That was using an estimate of what he used to put in our joint account every month. It is hard to know what he really makes since he is self employed and does not separate his personal from his business income and hasn't paid taxes in years.  He has NO official documentation of his income and would basically have to write himself some pay stubs to show what he makes.  He has told me that if we go to court they would figure child support using "real numbers" not my estimates and I'd be sure to get less than he is giving me now.

[hillymum]

I would have thought that as long as you can show how much he's been giving you for child support for the last few months, then a status quo order would ensure he continues paying you the same amount, so no the court wouldn't let him pay less. You would need past bank  and credit card statments to prove how much he's been giving you or paying for.

[turtle2who]

Hmmm . . . interesting.  Of course I could not prove the cell phone or the gas because I don't have access to his statements- that was around $350 a month.  The insurance is actually in my name for the whole family but he pays the bill out of his business account.

And yeah- the child support he gave me a check the first month- which was a catch up for 11 weeks of missed support- and then has given me cash every month since.  I deposited it in my bank account the first 2 months but kept it stashed away in cash last month.  How could I prove he actually gave me the cash?

[JBaxter]

I would ALWAYS deposit the cash and make a not in your ledge "child support cash deposit"   Keep records.  I have a friend who's X paid her in cash and she noted it on her calender each month he tried to say he paid her more but they accepted her had written dates/$$ as reasonable proof  she also had many other things like dates of visits , issues etc.

Originally Posted by turtle2who 

Hmmm . . . interesting.  Of course I could not prove the cell phone or the gas because I don't have access to his statements- that was around $350 a month.  The insurance is actually in my name for the whole family but he pays the bill out of his business account.

And yeah- the child support he gave me a check the first month- which was a catch up for 11 weeks of missed support- and then has given me cash every month since.  I deposited it in my bank account the first 2 months but kept it stashed away in cash last month.  How could I prove he actually gave me the cash?

[turtle2who]

Thanks for the info- all good to know!

[One_Girl]

If he is paying you in cash for child support it may be considered a gift, that is what cash is called in my divorce decree and it was something the court tacked on not something we put into the decree.  Has he said if he wants the kids on the weekends his gf's kids are there or on an alternate weekend?  Is he willing to talk to your son about this?  I think you should tell him what your son said and ask him to think about having your son one on one and her kids one on one so they can spend time being with their other parents building the relationship.  Maybe ask him to think about it for a month and if he still thinks it is best then tell him you are willing to try it.  He can say yes or no, but either way you have let him know what your son is saying and you will know what you have to deal with from there.  My ex initially wanted every weekend despite dropping off the radar for several months before popping back up with a gf.  I was able to get him to think about it a while longer and he wound up breaking up with his gf and agreeing to a lot less visitation because it was no longer important to him.

I think that you may be better off just agreeing because he is probably going to get at least that much if it goes to court.  I also think that you should get the forms to file the custody arrangement, you can get them cheaply from a legal supply store or you can maybe print them off of the court assistance website.  A clerk at the court should be able to run the child support numbers through the calculator based on income levels and the time your son will spend in each home.  You just file those papers after you both sign them in front of a notary republic and he can't change again on the whim of a gf unless you agree and file new papers or he takes you to court and wins.

[MissLotus]

I just read through this and here are my thoughts (as one who also has a bully type of ex):  Do you know why he's threatening court and not just GOING to court to get what he supposedly wants?  It's because he knows he may well end up with less visitation than he has now.  I know the thought of the unknown - not knowing what a judge would decide - is terrifying as it affects your child so greatly - so I completely get that you're trying to play it safe.  I'm just saying that I do think your ex is bluffing a bit, because if he really thought he could get it in court, he would.

But the other reason he does NOT want to go to court is:  He "hasn't paid taxes in years".  That is big - very big.  He could get in a ton of trouble.  He does not want that to come out!  And you know what?  I think you should fully use that to your advantage!

I think every other weekend - standard visitation - would work better.  Friday - Sunday, then ONE evening per week.  I would not offer more, you don't want to set a precedent.  He HAS to compromise with you.  Bullies will never admit it - they'll just threaten forever.  Reality is the only way to defend yourself.  A little, "Hmm, maybe court WOULD be a good idea - I think what they'd offer would be along the lines of the standard visitation I'm offering, plus then we can get child support squared away legally,"  - which he does not want to do because he'd have to prove his income and expose his tax evasion!

Apply for legal aid if you haven't already!

[LorenaAZ]

I would talk to ex and try to have him understand that your little one likes things the way they are, as do you.  Maybe even sit your little one down with the 2 of you so your ex sees/hears it for himself and doesn't think you are "just saying that" to visits the way they are.  I seems like it would be unpredictable and a bit chaotic for your little one to do the eow and school drop with dad on Mondays....plus, I completely understand how you feel about not seeing your little one for that long.  Perhaps bring up what another Mama suggested here, to do eow but for 48 hrs, so you would get your little one back on Sunday evenings.  I agree with you 100% that having a visiting schedule where you can say "you'll see your dad tomorrow" is great for the little ones!  Every time my daughter asks for her dad, I can always say "you'll see him tomorrow" and it really helps to reassure her.

I also recommend you get legal aid and get the paperwork started to get custody and child support.  I know you mentioned he gives you $800/month, but you never know when he might change his mind and it's better to have it court ordered in a legal document.  Do you have any bank statements that would show his income or work "deposits" in your joint account to proof how much he makes? 

[turtle2who]

Originally Posted by One_Girl 

If he is paying you in cash for child support it may be considered a gift, that is what cash is called in my divorce decree and it was something the court tacked on not something we put into the decree.  Has he said if he wants the kids on the weekends his gf's kids are there or on an alternate weekend?  Is he willing to talk to your son about this?  I think you should tell him what your son said and ask him to think about having your son one on one and her kids one on one so they can spend time being with their other parents building the relationship.  Maybe ask him to think about it for a month and if he still thinks it is best then tell him you are willing to try it.  He can say yes or no, but either way you have let him know what your son is saying and you will know what you have to deal with from there.  My ex initially wanted every weekend despite dropping off the radar for several months before popping back up with a gf.  I was able to get him to think about it a while longer and he wound up breaking up with his gf and agreeing to a lot less visitation because it was no longer important to him.

I think that you may be better off just agreeing because he is probably going to get at least that much if it goes to court.  I also think that you should get the forms to file the custody arrangement, you can get them cheaply from a legal supply store or you can maybe print them off of the court assistance website.  A clerk at the court should be able to run the child support numbers through the calculator based on income levels and the time your son will spend in each home.  You just file those papers after you both sign them in front of a notary republic and he can't change again on the whim of a gf unless you agree and file new papers or he takes you to court and wins.

Yes he definitely wants him when the gf has her kids.  He has said that.  And he doesn't care what ds wants.  he thinks everything ds says has been fed to him by me.  He doesn't give him any credit for having his own opinions or concerns.  I have told him about ds not being happy about the change. I have told him ds asked me to tell him that and ds wants to talk to him about it- but it has been a couple of weeks and he has seen him 3 times a week and hasn't said anything to him about it.

Neither ex nor his gf would have ANY interest in having the kids on opposite weekends- why- when they like to play together? And then they would never get a weekend just to themselves!  And ex has NO intention of breaking up with gf- he moved her into his house 3 months after they met- with her kids who have now changed schools to live there!  They are two of a kind for sure.