Lithium Orotate for children...reviews/experiences?

[emma1325]

Hi,

My daughter is being tested for heavy metal toxicity.  She has extreme mood swings, ADHD symptoms and violent tantrums.  Until the test results came back, the doctor suggested lithium orotate, the smallest dose (I think 5 mg).

She's been on it for five days now, and we haven't noticed a single difference in her moods.  She is still very jumpy and moody.

I'm hoping the lithium will still help, but needs more time to get into her system...but I wanted to ask here if anyone has any experience with lithium orotate.

Thanks!

[ssh]

How old is your DD? I 'd be hesitant giving a young child any kind of lithium because of the toxicity. One study listed possible side effects of lithium orotate as including diarrhea, vomiting, drowsiness, muscle weakness, lack of coordination, blurred vision and ringing in the ears. When a psychiatrist prescribes pharmaceutical lithium they monitor blood levels to help prevent toxicity. Lithium orotate is more bio-reactive so more of it's absorbed and there's less in the blood. I don't know if they monitor for toxicity levels with natural lithuim salts. Pharmaceutical lithium reacts with some other drugs  including ibuprofen.

Could the heavy metal toxicity be causing your DD's symptoms? I think mood swings and depression have been associated with heavy metal toxicity. I'd rule out other things before going with a bipolar disorder treatment. ADHD and bipolar disorder share symptoms but respond to different treatments.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by ssh 

How old is your DD? I 'd be hesitant giving a young child any kind of lithium because of the toxicity. One study listed possible side effects of lithium orotate as including diarrhea, vomiting, drowsiness, muscle weakness, lack of coordination, blurred vision and ringing in the ears. When a psychiatrist prescribes pharmaceutical lithium they monitor blood levels to help prevent toxicity. Lithium orotate is more bio-reactive so more of it's absorbed and there's less in the blood. I don't know if they monitor for toxicity levels with natural lithuim salts. Pharmaceutical lithium reacts with some other drugs  including ibuprofen.

Could the heavy metal toxicity be causing your DD's symptoms? I think mood swings and depression have been associated with heavy metal toxicity. I'd rule out other things before going with a bipolar disorder treatment. ADHD and bipolar disorder share symptoms but respond to different treatments.

Hi...she's seven.  The doctor, who is an md (internal medicine), specializes in toxicity, and is very natural-minded, seems to think that metal toxicity and lithium deficiency could be related in certain individuals, or at least present together.  The hair analysis that we had done tested for heavy metal poisoning and also lithium levels. (We get the results back within a couple of weeks.) The doctor suspects she'll be both high in metals and low in lithium, which is why she suggested putting her on the lithium now.

She doesn't moniter blood levels unless you request, but said that in her experience with this form of lithium, side effects are nearly non-existent.  If any are noticed, they are very mild.  And my daughter isn't on any other medication so there's no chance of drug interaction.

So yes, we believe the metal toxicity could be responsible for her mood swings.  But also that lithium deficiency could be a related issue.  I'm just really hoping that we can find a treatment plan that works for her.  Her problems with mood are pretty severe and have been interfering with school and our atmosphere at home.

[ssh]

It does seem like a really low dose. Some psych meds can take weeks to have the desired effect.  Hopefully the results on your DD's test will be back soon. Physical exercise can also have a very positive effect on moods and bipolar disorder so can having regular amounts of sleep.

[concernedmom11]

Lithium is a heavy metal and has no known function in the human body or any other living organism. It is not a necessary biological element for life. Lithium in the "natural" or orotate form as well as the "un-natural" carbonate form both have adverse consequences in the body. Here is an example of the endocrine disrupting effects of lithium in females. This is a clinical study abstract.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0006899386914459

The orotate form of lithium is also more bioavailable and therefore builds up in the brain more quickly, leading to increased chances of toxicity. Another clinical study abstract...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18072162

Increased kidney toxicity from orotate salts...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2042-7158.1979.tb13461.x/abstract

DO NOT BELIEVE THE HYPE ON THE INTERNET OR FROM NATROPATHIC DOCTORS ABOUT LITHIUM OROTATE. IT IS NOT SAFE. (Chelation can be safe.. lithium orotate is NOT!)

[GregB77777]

Originally Posted by concernedmom11 

Lithium is a heavy metal and has no known function in the human body or any other living organism. It is not a necessary biological element for life. Lithium in the "natural" or orotate form as well as the "un-natural" carbonate form both have adverse consequences in the body. Here is an example of the endocrine disrupting effects of lithium in females. This is a clinical study abstract.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0006899386914459

The orotate form of lithium is also more bioavailable and therefore builds up in the brain more quickly, leading to increased chances of toxicity. Another clinical study abstract...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18072162

Increased kidney toxicity from orotate salts...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2042-7158.1979.tb13461.x/abstract

DO NOT BELIEVE THE HYPE ON THE INTERNET OR FROM NATROPATHIC DOCTORS ABOUT LITHIUM OROTATE. IT IS NOT SAFE. (Chelation can be safe.. lithium orotate is NOT!)

This post is so full of inaccuracies I had to comment on it.

First, Lithium is not a "heavy metal."  In fact, it is the very lightest metal on the Periodic Table, with an Atomic Number of 3.  Heavy metals are just that--- heavy ones, with high atomic numbers, like lead, cadmium, and uranium.

Second, far from having "no known function in the body," lithium can be found everywhere in the human body, and is intimately involved in many biochemical processes.    In fact, in the human fetus, lithium concentration in the fetus peaks during the first trimester, indicating that lithium must play an important role in human development.  See this article from Nutrition:

http://www.jacn.org/content/21/1/14.full

Counties with low lithium content in their water supplies have higher rates of suicide, drug addiction and violent crime. 

Violent criminals have lower lithium content in their hair compared  to non violent controls.

Lithium is one of the only helpful treatments for manic depressive disorder.

As far the three studies that you cite:  You are making incorrect conclusions from the data.

First study:  They INJECTED .035 g/kg of some form of lithium directly into rats.  This would be equivalent to injecting about 3 grams of lithium into the bloodstream of a human.  First of all, the paper doesn't indicate what type of lithium they used.  Second of all, humans do not inject lithium--- they eat it.  There is a BIG difference between the two.  When you eat something, your body processes the material differently than if you inject it.  The lithium concentration in your blood if you injected 3 grams of it at one time would likely be hundreds or thousands of times as great as if you swallowed 3 grams of it.  This is simple biochemistry.  You can't compare these two situations at ALL. 

Second study:  The woman in the study OVERDOSED on lithium, taking 68 grams at one time!   That is 12 times the amount of lithium orotate that a typical dose contains.  You can only conclude from this study that it is possible to overdose on lithium.  The USRDA of magnesium is 300 mg/day.  I guarantee you that you will have problems if you take 12 times this amount at one time!  Taking 12 times the amount of potassium you should at one time will stop your heart.    In fact, they INJECT potassium into the bloodstream ti kill people in capital punishment.

Third study:  Same problem as the first study:  INJECTED into RATS.

[~cassie~]

I am not well versed in the difference between Lithium Orotate and Lithium Carbonate but I do know that Lithium Carbonate can take about 2-3 weeks to see SOME effect and 6-8 weeks to see the full effect, so it's possibly the same with the Orotate.  I do know the Lithium Carbonate must get blood levels a few times a month at first and then every month afterwards, but again, not sure how that differs with the Orotate.

[emma1325]

I wanted to check in with this and say that my daughter has been on the lithium orotate for a year and a half now, and it has really, really helped. After about a weeks of taking it, we noticed that she leveled out quite a bit.  She stopped having the violent tantrums (she still occasionally has tantrums but they are mild and infrequent compared to how they were before the lithium), and she has been better able to focus at school. 

She takes it twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening. I would highly recommend it to anyone seeking a somewhat natural option in treating severe mood swings/anxiety/ADHD.

BTW, her test results came back and she was severely deficient in lithium, and toxic in most heavy metals.  We've done one form of chelation once, and we're planning to try it again sometime in the future.  So far, the lithium has produced the best results and Emma is much happier for it.
 

[sbgrace]

I'm glad to see a good report. I started it with my son. No effects yet and I'm using a tiny dose. The thread sort of scared me. But lithium is in water in many areas. The areas where it is isn't have higher rates of all sorts of negative things. We reverse osmosis our water so....

I am going to research it more but happy to see your good report. I hope it helps my son.

[sillychick]

I have been a neurological mess and have been told by someone outside the healthcare community (of which I worked for 14 years) that I likely have heavy metal poisoning - maybe from long long ago, symptoms have escalated and psychosis is frequent which is why I've been treated for bipolar - then I got the physical symptoms and they blamed it on my bipolar meds and I switched to lithium carbonate because it's natural and then on to orotate (which works incredibly for my mood), but reading this crap, I dunno what to do - I've been told cheraliting (or whatever) is dangerous too if not done by conventional healthcare, but I've read what they use is synthetic and creates a whole bother host of problems.  I know this is not about your DD, but I googled "heavy metal poisoning and lithium treatment"  Hope your daughter is better, thank you all for your help.