help me deconstruct this interaction with my 12 yr old....min update, post 45 - Page 3

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

which I tried to discuss with her, but instead of apologising for lashing out and hurting my feelings, which I told her she did, she hyper focused on the fact that she did not call me a liar but said I was "lying").  P

You don't have any control over her behavior, but you have total control over your reaction to it. There's really no reason why anything she's says *must*  hurt your feelings, make you angry, or effect the way you feel at all. Part of the problem is that you are jumping into her unbalanced state with her, giving her control over your emotions.

When her lack of self control starts getting to you, find a way for the two of you to be in separate spaces. Rather than demanding something from her (which she isn't capable of right now) disengage. Take a few minutes to yourself (do a little deep breathing, color a mandela, surf the net, etc.) or if you have things you need to do in the main part of the house, nicely say that you guys needs break from each other, but that you will be working in the kitchen, and politely ask her to be in a different part of the house. "We need to NOT be in the same part of the house for a little while" may be the most helpful thing she can hear from you.

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 
 The result of "letting things go" was I ignored her attitude issues, which is hardly fair to my other children, and everyone walked on eggshells for fear of setting her off.   

... This is a child who has been much loved, respected, listenned to and treated generously since birth, and in the last 6 months/year has turned into someone who is extremely difficult to live with and is borderline toxic in this house. 

"Walking on eggshells in fear" and "letting things go" aren't the same thing. It's really OK if she loses it. That's just where she is right now. She may need more time alone that she used to. She may need some space to be grumpy. Every example that you've given is about how her behavior effected *you* not your other kids, and how much you let this get to you (or not) is totally up to you. 
 

I totally relate to the "much loved, respected, listened to, and treated generously" thing, and I know several other parents on here do too. These are kids who were breastfeed, co-slept, experienced only gentle discipline, etc. Yet they still get hormones!  It really isn't fair. But we did all those things because they were the right thing to do, because they felt right in our hearts. Not because they came with a money back guarantee that our kids would always be pleasant and never go through any icky stages. 

[A&A]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Originally Posted by A&A 

Within 5--10 years, she'll be an adult and (most likely) out of your house.  What kind of relationship do you want with her then?  That's the kind of relationship YOU need to cultivate now.  (And not blame it on "she's belligerent," etc., because she will change if you do.  It may not be immediate, but it will happen.)

It is a very easy thing to say one needs to repair a relationship; it is a very difficult thing to do when the other person is not trying/ thinks everything you say is useless and is explosive/belligerent.  Really, you try it.

I have a 13 year old daughter. 

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by A&A 

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Originally Posted by A&A 

Within 5--10 years, she'll be an adult and (most likely) out of your house.  What kind of relationship do you want with her then?  That's the kind of relationship YOU need to cultivate now.  (And not blame it on "she's belligerent," etc., because she will change if you do.  It may not be immediate, but it will happen.)

It is a very easy thing to say one needs to repair a relationship; it is a very difficult thing to do when the other person is not trying/ thinks everything you say is useless and is explosive/belligerent.  Really, you try it.

I have a 13 year old daughter. 

Not all 13 year olds are the same.

Sorry for the snark earlier, though, I am a little raw.

[A&A]

One more book recommendation:  Unconditional Parenting

http://www.amazon.com/Unconditional-Parenting-Moving-Rewards-Punishments/dp/0743487486/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295300461&sr=8-1

[joensally]

Hey Kathy, I've been thinking about this thread the last couple of days.  DD is 11.5 and has been extremely temperamental since infancy.  Eleven has seen an uptick in the oppositional attitude and a new, rude approach.  I've read so many books, she's seen a counsellor, I've seen a counsellor - you get the picture to some degree.

The best strategy I've found is to:

a) look at this as a legitimate developmental stage, just like the "terrible twos";

b) to take a long view - what do I want my child to learn (which includes that she can trust me), and what timeline is reasonable (really, she's pretty much in charge of that - just like at two y.o. - all I can do is facilitate, support, and model);

c) her behaviour today is not her forever behaviour;

d) she's doing the best she can, and she's probably pretty miserable to be behaving so miserably and putting barriers within her relationships;

e) this is the most important one : PREFRONTAL CORTEX.  Kids this age are operating with underdeveloped and faulty-functioning brain chemistry, and decision-making/rational thinking goes down in direct proportion to emotions going up.  When she's being an oppositional goof, she literally has limited capacity to switch gears - she's stuck. 

I am now extremely sympathetic to my DD's challenges around emotional control, opposition/rigidity etc.  I'm not always perfect at controlling my reactions (eye rolling and snarky tone trigger me), but I try to get back to taking the long view.  Since I've been taking this approach, the obnoxious attitude is mostly gone, although she still gets stuck sometimes.  She's easier to unstick now, because I don't approach her as if she should know better, I approach her sympathetically that she's overwhelmed by strong emotions.  I find the storm passes quickly and 99% of the time she apologizes for not being more productive in her approach, and can identify what she would rather have done/said.

[purslaine]

I met with the counsellor yesterday.  She seemed really nice and fairly liberal minded, which was a relief!    I think DD will like her, which is essential if this is going to be helpful.  She asked about our history, what was going, school, etc.  She also asked what I was hoping counselling would accomplish.  DD meets with her in two weeks.  She had originally baled at the idea of going - but seems Ok with it now.  I put it to her as "we do not always get along so well, i need someone to help us figure out how to stop exploding at each other".  I also let her know it is her chance to complain about me - which I am sure she will enjoy, lol

We have been doing reasonably well in the last 2 weeks.  I have not been called any names, and there have not been any major blows ups.  I am trying to ignore behaviour.  I am not overly comfortable doing so - but it is better than blowing up with each other.  It is a stop gap measure until we both have better tools to deal with things.

Thanks again everyone - there was lots to think about in this post.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by joensally 

The best strategy I've found is to:

a) look at this as a legitimate developmental stage, just like the "terrible twos";

b) to take a long view - what do I want my child to learn (which includes that she can trust me), and what timeline is reasonable (really, she's pretty much in charge of that - just like at two y.o. - all I can do is facilitate, support, and model);

c) her behaviour today is not her forever behaviour;

d) she's doing the best she can, and she's probably pretty miserable to be behaving so miserably and putting barriers within her relationships;

e) this is the most important one : PREFRONTAL CORTEX.  Kids this age are operating with underdeveloped and faulty-functioning brain chemistry, and decision-making/rational thinking goes down in direct proportion to emotions going up.  When she's being an oppositional goof, she literally has limited capacity to switch gears - she's stuck. 

 This a great approach.