Horrid Scene - I feel awful - Page 2

[mamazee]

Yeah, I agree with that.  I don't think I'd be willing to sit and scan everything my kids drew either.  They can choose their favorites to keep.  Sometimes there's one I particularly like that gets saved as well.  But we don't save a whole lot of it.  I think there's a good lesson about minimalism and not collecting clutter or something in this.

[Llyra]

I can so completely sympathize. Before she started school, my DD1 spent huge portions of her time producing artwork-- on the order of 20 or more drawings a day. And she wanted us to save every single one, and would flip her lid if we even gently suggested selecting some to not keep. She would go totally ballistic. It was a dilemma that consumed our family life for awhile, actually, so I know how hard this can be.

Now that she can read, and has a more active social life, and is in school, she's cut back her art to a more manageable level, and she's also developed a more solid sense of realism-- that if we kept every single thing she made, we'd be overrun in a few weeks. So she can handle sitting down and weeding out what to keep and what to discard.

But those were a hard couple of years.

Here's what I did: I kept a big cardboard box in the kitchen. Anything she made that she didn't want displayed, or anything that had been displayed and was now being taken down, we put in the box. She was secure in the knowledge that we had it all in the box. When the box was full, I put it in the basement, and then set out a new one. We kept the filled box until the other one was nearly full, which took a few weeks. That way, if she asked for anything she'd made, I would say, oh, it's right here in the box. But by the time the second box was full, the first one was entirely forgotten. So DH would go through it late at night, select a small number of really special pieces to keep forever, put them in another box, and then recycle the rest. Late at night, when there was no chance she could ever find out. Then when the next box was full, it would go downstairs, and we'd repeat the process.

We still had the occasional terrible episode, though-- the worst I remember was when one of her drawings got torn, and I tried throwing it away, but forgot to take the trash out, and she found it in the trash can and wanted to tape it together again. Only by then, it was covered in discarded baked beans. She lost her mind. It was awful.

As far as the biting goes, though-- I don't think you did anything wrong. If one of my kids bit me and I was bleeding, I would have reacted similarly. It's always terrible, those times, but it's not going to help her if you're too patient with such clearly outrageous and harmful behavior-- extreme behavior like that should be met with a strong, clear, honest reaction. That's how kids learn how their actions affect other people.

[elmh23]

Originally Posted by a-sorta-fairytale 

DD will draw 30 drawings and notes and other things a day.  She has a space on her wall for about 20 drawings.  That is what she can keep.  If she wants to keep a new one she has to replace an old one.  She is very involved in our recycling and understands why we have to do this.  She also does not like bugs and has read about them hiding out in piles of paper so that cuts down on that behavior also. 

This is pretty much what we do.  If it's something REALLY important or really good, I'll stick it in her folder in the fire proof box, but otherwise, everything gets recycled here.  And she knows it.

As for your reaction, dude, you were BLEEDING because she bit you.  And it doesn't sound like a little blood, but a lot.  Your reactions was perfectly normal, IMO.  

[ananas]

I think that it's obviously something that's very important to her, and she DOES expect it. I don't think it's unrealistic to scan her artwork into a computer if it's that important to her. My parents saved a ton of stuff from when I was a child, and I still have all of it. If scanners had been around then, I'm sure I'd even have more things. Everything they saved is still important to me to this day.
 

Originally Posted by D_McG 

Do your kids really expect you to save every single thing they draw?  I think that's unrealistic.  My kids don't expect that.  

Originally Posted by ananas 

Yes, this. I can imagine that I would be very traumatized if I saw someone burning my artwork, now or as a child. Burning is so final, so complete, and I think even at 4, she understood that. Do you have a scanner? Would it be possible for you to get one? 
 

Originally Posted by Pookietooth 

Yes, I was going to post too that the horrid scene in my mind had already started when she saw her artwork being burned. I am no artist, but I would not do that with ds's work (he has though, when he was angry). You need to find another solution that involves her agreement.

 

 

[heartmama]

Teach her how to scan it. At 4 I bet she could do it herself!

[number572]

A chalkboard or several small chalkboards could help instead of using paper.  That way, she needs to erase one drawing before she can make another.  She could have a few different chalkboards so that she can display her work for a while before moving on to the next piece.  And you could take photos of each one before it gets erased if she's feeling attached to the drawing.  

There are some pretty great chalk colors out these days and chalk art is fun to do!  I actually use my chalk/chalkboards sometimes to lay out my own ideas before putting them onto a canvas.

[dovey]

Thanks for all the input.  After thinking about this situation for a few days, I realize that we do need to work on including her in decisions about what to do with her artwork.  The sneaking thing isn't fair.  But at the same time, we don't really have space to keep all of it.  Nor, at age 4, does she really have an understanding about what it means to keep that volume of stuff.  I think that the most painful part the other night was watching her artwork be destroyed.  She doesn't usually see it happen, and she never misses what disappears.  She only saw it the other night, because she happened to walk into the room at the wrong moment.  Where we live, there is no paper recycling, so usually we try to reuse paper (i.e. use both sides for drawing and then compost it or burn it).  Maybe I could get her to select drawings to go into the keep pile and others to go into the compost/burn pile, and then light the fire/rip up the compost when she isn't watching the process.  I like the idea of helping her do this by giving her a space limit, or a number limit.  On the other hand, maybe I'll just put all of them in a big black bag in my parents' garage for her to keep and she can decide what to do with it all when she's old enough.  But I it is clear to me now that I need to include her in the decision making process.  Thinking about it, I would be mad if people threw my creations away without my consent too.   

We do have a whiteboard which both kids use to draw pictures on.  She gets really upset about erasing the pictures on that too.  I'll have to think about the scanning onto the computer or taking photographs.  That might work, although I do foresee that she might not be too happy about getting rid of the hard copy.  I'm wondering if this desire of hers to hold onto her creations so tightly (as well as her toys, clothes, possessions, etc.) is a normal developmental thing, or whether it's revealing that she's unhappy in some way, and she needs all of this stuff to feel secure.  Here are the difficult things going on in her life right now: 

 1. We just had our third baby 3 months ago.

 2. My 4 year old has just transitioned to her own bed, a process which isn't entirely smooth for her. 

 3. My son has just learned to love reading, so he has recently stopped playing with his little sister as much as he used to. 

 4. My mother, who lives up the street and plays with the kids all the time, seems to favor my son because he is easier to get along with.

 5. My partner and my daughter have a very difficult relationship.  They don't communicate well at all, and I feel like he has given up on participating in her discipline.

 (One poster asked if he's a permanent partner; he's around for good.  We're just not married.) 

[Minxie]

My sister bought a frame designed to hold about an inch of artwork at a time; it opens like a book. The first picture is displayed and the remainder is stored directly behind it. If you have an art gallery wall, that might be another solution; it moves storage onto the wall instead of having it in boxes and minimizes the amount she can store as the frames will only hold so much. She can then decide which piece is being stored, displayed or trashed which contributes to her feeling of ownership in the process and removes your responsibility.

[staceychev]

One thing you might consider is having distance from the work for her. Store things for however long seems reasonable--by seasons, by birthdays, by school years... and then every time that milestone comes around, have her sit down and choose a set number of things to include. You could even make a ritual of burning the other things--have a "moving on" party to celebrate the things you're going to keep and let go of the things you're not going to. 

(A word of caution--you might want to have two numbers in mind: one for things she wants to keep and one for things you and DH want to keep. Her self-curating as an artist will most likely be different than what you'll value as a parent.)

I bought paper storage boxes at the Container Store to store DD's artwork, schoolwork, and report cards. They're brightly colored so they look nice on shelves.

http://www.containerstore.com/shop/office/paperStorage/boxes

ETA: This was actually a clean-out method I devised for myself when I was in high school. I found that if I let things sit in a box for 6 months and then went back to them, I had emotionally distanced myself from them enough that I could throw them away. 

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by staceychev 

One thing you might consider is having distance from the work for her. Store things for however long seems reasonable--by seasons, by birthdays, by school years... and then every time that milestone comes around, have her sit down and choose a set number of things to include. You could even make a ritual of burning the other things--have a "moving on" party to celebrate the things you're going to keep and let go of the things you're not going to.

I was going to suggest this as well. I am an artist & I would be very upset if someone threw out or burned something I had just created... but usually once a few months have gone by I can objectively evaluate it & get rid of some (OK, most!) of it. Just get a big box to store everything and go through it with he every few months. You guys can admire the "best" (in HER opinion) pieces, perhaps placing them in a scrapbook or photograph/scanning them in, and ceremoniously get rid of the rest.

Another idea would be to reuse her drawings for a new project -- she could cut them up and make a collage, for ex., or use them as strips for a paper chain or papier mache, or paint on them, etc.  -- this would not only solve your problem to some extent but also inspire new forms of creativity, which is great for any artist!

(My 23mo DS loves to create but he rips his crafts off the fridge and tears them up LOL so I guess it will be some time before I have to deal with this issue!!)

[Ellien C]

To address the one part - saving every piece of artwork/paper...

YES - my kid expects to be able to save every scrap of paper -  gum wrappers, OTHER kids artwork at the end of the day when everyone is drawing and most kids just leave theirs - mine is thrilled that she "gets" to take them home, "scenary" from little skits and plays she's been in. It's very, very difficult. She is 7 now and I just started decluttering behind her back. We can't go on like this anymore.
 

I really second the scanning or photographing the artwork. We've done that with some temporary clay things and she was very happy with that idea. Also EVERY performance must be fully videotaped - and I'm SO not into being that parent.

[shanniesue2]

I haven't read through all the responses, and I'm so sorry that you and your DD had that awful experience.  It's so easy to act in ways we normally wouldn't in response to being injured.  Don't be too hard on yourself, mama.  And just continue processing with her.

I really wanted to post b/c I have some ideas for the art issue... of course run all of these by her and see what she thinks before deciding:

1.  Scan and save on flsh drive to start a digital portfolio

2.  Photograph and help her start a portfolio (in both cases, use the term portfolio as this is something that real artists do)

3.  Use the hard copy art as wrapping paper for birthdays and holidays

4.  Adopt a couple of elderly residents at an assisted living or nursing home.  Or some children through the shriners or St. Jude's or something and have her send some of her art to help cheer people up

5.  Send some to special relatives or long distant friends

6.  Ask a local museum for help with getting in touch with a real artist.  Take DD to meet the artist and have a discussion with that artist.  Share portfolios and then ask that artist what they do when they don't have enough space to store all of their artwork.

7.  You could get several frames (no glass, just the frame).  Find a wall in your home that you can turn into an art gallery, and hang the frames on that (however many you can fit, since she's prolific).  It makes for a really easy and nice way to display her art... you just hang the art on the wall inside the frame.  Very easy to change out as her talent, taste, and subject matter evolve.

8.  Get sketch books and encourage her to start sketching/drawing in those.... easier to keep together and easier to carry around with her when you go on outings... my dad is an artist and he NEVER goes anywhere without his sketch book.  He almost never photographs anything any more b/c he sketches in his sketch pad.

[ananas]

Originally Posted by shanniesue2 

I haven't read through all the responses, and I'm so sorry that you and your DD had that awful experience.  It's so easy to act in ways we normally wouldn't in response to being injured.  Don't be too hard on yourself, mama.  And just continue processing with her.

I really wanted to post b/c I have some ideas for the art issue... of course run all of these by her and see what she thinks before deciding:

1.  Scan and save on flsh drive to start a digital portfolio

2.  Photograph and help her start a portfolio (in both cases, use the term portfolio as this is something that real artists do)

3.  Use the hard copy art as wrapping paper for birthdays and holidays

4.  Adopt a couple of elderly residents at an assisted living or nursing home.  Or some children through the shriners or St. Jude's or something and have her send some of her art to help cheer people up

5.  Send some to special relatives or long distant friends

6.  Ask a local museum for help with getting in touch with a real artist.  Take DD to meet the artist and have a discussion with that artist.  Share portfolios and then ask that artist what they do when they don't have enough space to store all of their artwork.

7.  You could get several frames (no glass, just the frame).  Find a wall in your home that you can turn into an art gallery, and hang the frames on that (however many you can fit, since she's prolific).  It makes for a really easy and nice way to display her art... you just hang the art on the wall inside the frame.  Very easy to change out as her talent, taste, and subject matter evolve.

8.  Get sketch books and encourage her to start sketching/drawing in those.... easier to keep together and easier to carry around with her when you go on outings... my dad is an artist and he NEVER goes anywhere without his sketch book.  He almost never photographs anything any more b/c he sketches in his sketch pad.

These are all GREAT suggestions.

[LaughingHyena]

I've also got kids who would like to keep every scrap of paper they've ever used. Slowly we are getting them to realise they need to be selective.

We've found lots of ways to reduce the amount of paper in the first place, magna doodle, aqua doodle, chalks (either on a board or the patio). Painting on the patio with plain water is a favourite in the summer. DD used to like painting on a cookie sheet, I'd give her a few blobs of paint which she could mix up. Occasionally we'd lay a sheet of paper on top to take a print but most of the time we didn't bother. They also both love using the computers to draw.

For keeping stuff they each have a notice board in their rooms for their favourite pictures. When I help them tidy up I ask them to sort out the board and only keep what fits. DD has become an expert in how many sheets she can stack together before the magnets can't hold them up :lol

When she was younger DD had a clothes line with pegs (I threaded the line through the pegs so they were not removable). Each peg held a picture and it seemed to help her to have a definite number of pictures she could keep.

All that said I too am guilty of sneaking some of it out when they are not around.

[LDF]

My daughter loves to make stuff and draw and I too run out of room. I do save ALOT of her stuff, but not everything. I've made it clear to my daughter that any pictures that are not taken care of, get torn, something spills on them, wrinkled beyond recognition, etc. they will be thrown away, but perfectly good pictures we find good homes for if we don't pan on keeping them.

Also, we regularly give pictures to those we love, or mail them to family. We make a big deal of picking out several pictures to send or give away and then I write the name of the person they are for on the object and she titles it which I also write on it it and then we send it off or take them to the story time ladies, her favorite friends, or whomever else she likes. If they get rid of them, then great...but at least it's not in our house any more.