Some vaccines definitely don't work...

[TonyaW]

I have a friend who follows conventional medical "wisdom" to the detriment of her family. They literally visit the doctor weekly and sometimes multiple times a week. I would say that 1 of the 5 family members is usually taking an antibiotic. They are literally sick constantly and it MAKES ME SAD and ANGRY! I can assure you that they have all had every possible vaccine!

The children were vaccinated with the DTaP long ago, and had a full blown cases of whooping cough as adolescents, they are teens now. All five had the flu shot and four out of the five currently have the flu! Yes, I am sure they got checked out at the doctor to confirm it is the flu!

[cappuccinosmom]

I am a child of doctors.  I have never heard from them, nor read in any research, any claim that all vaccines work all the time for all people.

The goal is risk reduction.  It is clearly not 100%, and never has been, never will be.

[no5no5]

Some people simply have weak or underdeveloped immune systems, which sounds like it might be an issue for this family.  Vaccines aren't as effective if your immune system isn't up to scratch, but they can still help prevent serious complications. 

And yeah, what cappuccinosmom said. 

[member234098]

.

Edited by member234098 - 6/10/12 at 9:45pm

[no5no5]

Stating the fact that some people have weak immune systems and those people will not be as well-protected by vaccines does not place any blame on them or on anyone else.  In fact, doctors often do test to see whether a person has achieved immunity to a disease.  I've been tested myself.  People are regularly diagnosed with immune deficiencies and mitochondrial disorders, so I really don't understand why you think that these conditions are never tested for.  Frankly, it is just common sense that some people have stronger immune systems than others. 

OP, are you actually claiming that anyone in this family has had a vaccine reaction?  Or are you just claiming that the vaccines they took were ineffective? 

[TonyaW]

OP here, I am the child of a physician and worked in the medical field for half my working career. In my year of working for a pediatrician as a medical assistant and in the front office, I saw the pharmaceutical reps pushing medications with incentives to the doctor and office. I also worked in pharmacy for quite a while. This was at least 10 years ago, actually longer.

Anyway, it's a good point to say that these people have an underdeveloped immune system. It supports my theory and the theory of many that conventional medicine including vaccines causes an underdeveloped immune system and why many people get sick from vaccines. Getting vaccines from birth and antibiotics as well as many other medications to deal with symptoms every time someone is sick doesn't give the immune system a chance to figure out what it is suppose to do. Conventional medical "wisdom" interferes with peoples immune system with every possible opportunity, before birth, at birth and for ones whole life if people allow it. The sickest people I know, as with the above family, seek the care of a doctor regularly. There is certainly a time and place for conventional medicine. I would be dead without it as in the case of my ectopic pregnancy. Then again, if I hadn't had a c-section I would have never had the scar tissue that caused it to begin with.

I was sick for years due to conventional medical care and as soon as I started relying on more natural ways, I started to get better. I received lots of vaccines as a young adult to work in the hospital, I have suffered chronic fatigue and joint pain since then.

The majority of people who get vaccine associated diseases have been vaccinated since the majority of the population is vaccinated. Vaccines may work to some degree, but they also cause a lot of damage including not allowing the immune system to learn (it cannot do that with dead bacteria and viruses, metals, animal tissues, preservatives which are injected directly into the body bypassing the nose, skin, eyes and mouth which is how we normally catch these bugs to begin with). It is very logical if you think about it. Of course this family has and underdeveloped immune system!

[member234098]

?  

Edited by member234098 - 6/10/12 at 9:43pm

[no5no5]

OP, I guess we've just had very different experiences dealing with the medial establishment.  It sounds like you worked for an office that wasn't terribly thoughtful or ethical.  But IME most doctors agree that most of the time medications should be avoided, and that the body should generally be allowed to fight disease on its own.  Antibiotics are a good example of drugs that can be overprescribed by some doctors but that are nonetheless lifesaving in some circumstances.  Not all doctors will bother to think about when they should be prescribed, and when they should not, but good doctors certainly won't go around prescribing them willy nilly. 

As for the rest of it, I think we will have to agree to disagree. 
 

Originally Posted by miriam 

In fact, doctors often do test to see whether a person has achieved immunity to a disease.  

If that is true, then why did not the doctor of the family described in the OP's depiction test them for these problems?  If the doctor did test them for these problems, why are they still so sick?  

I can't possibly speak to why the doctors of this family have made the choices that they have, or even whether those choices were appropriate, given that I know absolutely nothing about them other than that they are often sick and take many medications.

[Crafty]

Could be any of a number of things. Could be genetics- some people just don't fight off illness as well. Doesn't necessarily mean their immune system is flawed or damaged; some people just seem to catch every little thing (my stepsister's kids are like that). It could be that they just come in contact with more germs; if they're a bigger family, that means more hands that could touch germs, and more people to whom those germs could spread. There are a lot of reasons they might catch whatever goes around.   .

[chaoticzenmom]

It may not be that the vaccines don't work. It may be that this family is getting sick from going to the dr's office.  Think of having 3 young kids.  If you do the recommended well-child visits, you'll be seeing your dr. quite often.  I can't think of a better place to get germs than a dr's office waiting room.  I've only been to one office that had a "well-child" waiting area...and it was covered in sick kids, so a lot of good that did. 

I don't know if we've stopped getting sick because we stopped visiting the dr's office (we see a naturapath rarely) or because we are taking better care of our health.   My last 2 children almost never get sick, but my first two were sick quite often.  Was it because the vaccines were weakening their immune system or because we were going to the dr. every 2 months for "well-child" visits and then the subsequent sick visits???  I feel for your friends.  It's hard dealing with sick kids so often, especially when you are trying to do everything right. 

[Fyrestorm]

I honestly don't remember anyone offering to do any tests on my DD before they tried  to push Hep B on her at birth...or if they wanted to test her DNA before trying to strong arm me into allowing them to give her HIB, DTaP or Roto at her 2 month appt.

[bluets]

in the OP, what is that family eating?

your immune system is only as strong as the materials it has to work with... and in the case of bodies (human and otherwise), those materials come from food.  eat junk food, have a crappy immune system.

[sosurreal09]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm 

I honestly don't remember anyone offering to do any tests on my DD before they tried  to push Hep B on her at birth...or if they wanted to test her DNA before trying to strong arm me into allowing them to give her HIB, DTaP or Roto at her 2 month appt.

This is my view. DD was perfectly healthy until she was vax'ed. She had several problems after being vax'ed and miraculously got better once we stopped. NOT one Dr tested her for anything before a vax or even mentioned anything like "hey you have a history of seizures maybe you should not vax" nope not one...but I am STILL be lectured by ER Drs or Drs in her pedi's practice we sometimes end up seeing for things about how she ESPECIALLY NEEDS THEM b/c she is so sick all of the time...funny though that in the last 7 months we haven't vax and she has been sick maybe 4x when she spent her whole life before being constantly sick...all the time...with a wide array of illness and stomach problems that involved bleeding...but she's all better now and we don't even have a special diet anymore...

[member234098]

.

Edited by member234098 - 6/10/12 at 9:42pm

[Lisa1970]

I know that the only times we ever got the flu ...we have gotten it in our family 3 times and 2 of those 3 times we had the flu shot. We will never have the flu shot again. About the DTP, it wears off within 5 yrs. Again, another waste of a shot.

[Lisa1970]

I agree. They won't test the kids to see if they are already immune or have something that would mean they should not get the shot. They won't even do research to figure out who shouldn't be getting these shots. Then, there are so many lies surrounding the shots, and language being used even in the info packets to make people think that the shots are not so bad, or are not made of what they are really made of.
 

Originally Posted by miriam 

Doctors will never admit the truth unless they are confronted with the facts.  I come from a family of doctors also.  

However, claiming some people simply have weak immune systems is blaming the victim.  Vaccination is a one size fits all solution for infectious disease.  No one ever does a test to determine who has the weak immune system or the mitochondrial disorder, so every time a child gets a vaccine, there is a risk, and that risk is the parents' and the child's risk, not the doctor's or the pharmaceutical company; where is the benefit if the child develops a life-threatening permanent neurological condition?  If a person gets a vaccine that most people get and has a reaction, the medical community sees the situation as the patient's problem, not a problem with the vaccine.

Which is why people are questioning vaccinations.  Families are abandoned by the medical profession once a vaccine reaction is realized.  Doctors absolve themselves of any guilt and deny any connection between the vaccine and the damage.  This is people's lives that are being toyed with.

[Lisa1970]

Originally Posted by miriam 

I agree with Fyrestorm and sosurreal09.  Doctors do not order tests because the patient's insurance company will probably not pay for it, and it is simply not SOP.  All a doctor needs to vax is the parents' informed consent () and the job is done.

My insurance would cover the testing. That is number one. Two, if the testing were routine, laws would be passed to make covering the testing required just as much as the shots are covered. BUT, it is the wealthy pharmaceutical companies that paid big time in to congress to get laws passed to require the shots. Who pays congress to get the laws passed to require testing before the shots are done?

[Otto]

Originally Posted by Lisa1970 

BUT, it is the wealthy pharmaceutical companies that paid big time in to congress to get laws passed to require the shots. Who pays congress to get the laws passed to require testing before the shots are done?

There are no congressional vaccine mandates.

[lurve]

just wanted to chime in that i am the daughter of two doctors and i don't vax. can't even have a convo with my parents on the subject as they won't read anything or listen to my side.

[bluets]

Originally Posted by lurve 

just wanted to chime in that i am the daughter of two doctors and i don't vax. can't even have a convo with my parents on the subject as they won't read anything or listen to my side.

You should give them copies of Peter and Hilary Butler's "Just a little prick" and "From 1 prick to another".  (Hilary/Peter will even send it free of charge!)  LOADED with references to the scientific literature and brilliantly written.  Though she does start out with "If you are happy with the current medical system, don't bother reading this book."