I'm afraid to have kids with my DP - Page 2

[AttunedMama]

Ooooo! If I could get back the years I spent trying to get a child's father to see it my way, or at least not sabotage my hard work!

[wondermama]

Nooooo!  Do not have kids with this man, until/unless you are able to get *way* more agreement on your parenting styles and choices before you get pregnant.  Parenting choices are sometimes about education (reading statistics on home birth safety, vaccination research, co-sleeping, etc. to get more comfortable with a less-than-mainstream choice), but are very often based on deeply held values and belief systems that are very difficult to change.  Parenting is hard enough without going into it knowing you're going to have to battle for things that will mean even more to you when you actually have a child than they do now.  Especially given your communication challenges with this man, I would *not* do it (unless you are able to see a major change in his viewpoints that you truly trust).  Please, save yourself the years of suffering!

[Sarah W]

I have a little bit of a different perspective. DH and I disagreed about spanking, but I never felt like he was blowing me off. I was abused as a child and the thought of hitting a child makes my stomach turn, because it was never a simple swat on the butt. DH, OTOH, was occasionally spanked and didn't have the negative reaction that I did. He felt like it would be acceptable to spank. Not saying that it was a favorable experience, but he has a very positive view of how his parents raised him and part of it was being spanked. He thought (and still thinks) he had great parents.  He also understood and cared about my opinions.After we had DD, he has said he couldn't imagine spanking her.

I can't say that you guys will work things out like we did. However, I don't think that having different opinions always has such dire consequences. It also doesn't mean he's a bad guy, or that he'd be a bad father.

[lilmom]

I recommend that you go with your gut instinct. Which is this man is not your life partner and having a child with him would be an uphill battle.

Please, please listen to your instincts. They are there for a very good reason.

Raising children is not easy for the parents who are entirely on the same page, much less those who have a major difference, such as spanking.

If you are not married, i suggest rethinking your relationship with this man. I honestly feel like you are fighting your instincts, defending him, etc. You are seeing the good, but not the reality of the situation, which is, if you have a child with him, there may be a time he will be on his own with the child and feel like the child just needs to be spanked. He may lose his temper, in spite of himself. he may think he would never hit a child in anger. But that may change when he has a defiant 2 year old, screaming, throwing a tantrum, driving him bananas after he has had no sleep, etc. and he may do it.

What if he doesn't come around to your way of thinking?

Then does that mean you will always wonder in the back of your mind what is going on when you leave him alone with the child? What happens when you go to your in-laws and they are all extolling the greatness of spanking and he agrees with them? Is he going to tell you if his family spanks your child? Will there be arguments because he wants them to babysit and you don't, and you haven't had a date night in 3 months? What about when he starts saying, "Well, you believe in not spanking but I believe in spanking and I'm his/her parent too!" 'If we could just spank him/her he/she wouldn't be acting like that!"

That's no way to live your life. This is a huge issue.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Sarah W 

he has a very positive view of how his parents raised him and part of it was being spanked. He thought (and still thinks) he had great parents.  He also understood and cared about my opinions.

My DH was/is the same way. He's parents spanked he and his sisters once in a while, and they were wonderful loving parents. He understood and cared about my opinions. He has no problem with the fact that he was spanked. Yet, he agreed to GD and our kids have never even been hit.

I think there has to be a common ground to make parenting choices from. If both parents have an underlying belief that children are worthy of respect, their feelings are real, and they should ideally be treated gently, there can be a lot of wiggle room in the specifics.

If one parent believes that children must be treated very strictly, controlled, and their feelings ignored, there's no room for common ground.

In some ways, spanking is sort of a side issue. There are parents who never spank, but they scream, shame and humiliate their children. I suspect that odd spanking when a child has truly crossed a line is less damaging that living with a parent who never hits but is just mean. Even though I was beaten as a child and lied about black eyes and all that, it was the things that my father SAID to me that have caused me the most problems in adulthood. I'm not advocating spanking -- I think it's obviously best to not smack children. I'm just pointing out that there's more to Gentle Discipline than just *not* spanking.

[sparklefairy]

I wouldn't have kids with someone if I was in major disagreement with him about parenting or financial management. Never again, anyway ;-)

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

Originally Posted by Sarah W 

he has a very positive view of how his parents raised him and part of it was being spanked. He thought (and still thinks) he had great parents.  He also understood and cared about my opinions.

My DH was/is the same way. He's parents spanked he and his sisters once in a while, and they were wonderful loving parents. He understood and cared about my opinions. He has no problem with the fact that he was spanked. Yet, he agreed to GD and our kids have never even been hit.

I think there has to be a common ground to make parenting choices from. If both parents have an underlying belief that children are worthy of respect, their feelings are real, and they should ideally be treated gently, there can be a lot of wiggle room in the specifics.

If one parent believes that children must be treated very strictly, controlled, and their feelings ignored, there's no room for common ground.

In some ways, spanking is sort of a side issue. There are parents who never spank, but they scream, shame and humiliate their children. I suspect that odd spanking when a child has truly crossed a line is less damaging that living with a parent who never hits but is just mean. Even though I was beaten as a child and lied about black eyes and all that, it was the things that my father SAID to me that have caused me the most problems in adulthood. I'm not advocating spanking -- I think it's obviously best to not smack children. I'm just pointing out that there's more to Gentle Discipline than just *not* spanking.

I agree with all this.  I was spanked on occasion, and my neighbor's family spanked, too.  They are all close, and I am not scarred by the occasional spanking.  There are lots of other facets to it.

Anyway, dh and I didn't discuss any parenting choices before marrying b/c I didn't know about any of these choices!  I knew I would BF, and that was it.  As each decision approached, I would learn about it, tell dh what I wanted, he would consider it, and then we'd do it.  He only balked at leaving them intact and HSing, but has since come around on those.  If he is a good person with whom you feel safe discussing things, I'd table the issues for now.  It's much easier to talk a tough game when you don't actually have that tiny, helpless baby.

[LessTraveledBy]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

If the guy can't even agree that hitting a child with a belt is a bad idea, he's not the one. If a guy blows off views that conflict with his own, he's not the guy. (He'll treat his children's opinions the same way).
 

This... This is not a person that has dealth with his childhood traumas and who can put himself in the child's shoes. There is NO WAY I would have kids with him. If he feels this way now, wait until you have not slept well for weeks (very possible with kids), money is tights and he feels like he does not have enough time with you.. or whatever. The point is that parenting is hard, even when you start on the sama page about everything. 

[MMead]

The Worst of All Bad Habits:

Schoolchildrens' "spanking" related injuries (WARNING - These images may be deeply disturbing to some viewers. Do not open this page if children are present).
http://www.nospank.net/injuredkids.pdf

Reasonable and moderate? You decide.
(WARNING - This sound recording may be deeply disturbing to some listeners. Do not open this file if children are within listening range).
http://nospank.net/prj-006.wav


Recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak
http://www.nospank.net/pt2010.pdf

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson
http://nospank.net/sdsc2.pdf

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor MD and Adah Maurer PhD
http://nospank.net/taylor.htm


Most current research:

Spanking Kids Increases Risk of Sexual Problems
http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2008/feb/lw28spanking.cfm

Use of Spanking for 3-Year-Old Children and Associated Intimate Partner Aggression or Violence
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/126/3/415

Spanking Can Make Children More Aggressive Later
http://tulane.edu/news/releases/pr_03122010.cfm

Spanking Children Can Lower IQ
http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2009/sept/lw25straus.cfm

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child "spanking" isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
American Psychological Association,
Center For Effective Discipline,
Churches' Network For Non-Violence,
United Methodist Church
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child.

In 31 nations, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child. The US also has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

The US states with the highest crime rates and the poorest academic performance are also the ones with the highest rates of child corporal punishment.

There is simply no evidence to suggest that child bottom-battering instills virtue.

[Spring Lily]

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

I should clarify that I feel he blows off my opinions about parenting/children/school, not in general.

The fact he is doing it at all is the problem here. It means that he is showing you a side of him that you don't like. When you face the stress and exhaustion of parenting--which is more than you think it is going to be ahead of time, believe me--that's when these kind of behaviors come out that were little or occasional before kids. After kids, they can blow up. If this side of him is coming up now, this is not the last time you see it, but after you have kids it will be affecting them too, and threatening your relationship in ways you may not understand yet. You have to wonder, when he's stressed and exhausted, is he going to fall back on that? When the kids have opinions different than his, is he going to be controlling and brush them off? Like the others said, NOW is the time to address it.

Also, to be perfectly blunt, it sounds like both of you have a little more maturing to do before having children. It also sounds a bit like you're both trying so hard to be right and force the other to agree, that you're not stepping back and listening to each other and thinking reasonably about their point of view. A lot of what he is saying is coming from what he learned, but if he hasn't done any of the research or reading that you have, why would he understand a different approach? Or want to attempt doing things in a foreign (to him) way? You need to sit down with him and CALMLY present him with studies, information, facts. Let him have a chance to understand it. Give him some books, and make a date to sit and rationally discuss what you like and dislike about the information.

He needs to know that hitting children with a belt is now considered child abuse. You can find the child abuse parameters for your state and let him know. In my state, you can't hit with any object or a closed hand. It's open hand, no mark, ONLY. Maybe seeing that in black and white will help him realize that practices have changed as society becomes more knowledgeable.

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

Someone suggested couples' counseling. Woah. I guess it's an even bigger deal than I thought. I'll definitely keep the counseling in mind though. We can't afford it right now, but we have time.... Who knows, maybe we won't need it.

I think the reason people are suggesting this is that thing get worse and harder when you have kids. I don't want this to sounds condescending, but it is just truly impossible to explain how the hormone changes make you feel or what months or years of sleep deprivation makes you feel like. But believe me, it can make all those little patterns between you that aren't great right now will be magnified when you're parents. The only way to deal with them is to have a good foundation of being able to work out problems together and a foundation of already agreed upon parenting ideas.

If that means some counseling, then you'll need to scrape up the money before having kids. If you can't afford a few counseling sessions, then you're not financially ready for kids, anyway.

Overall, I don't agree that this is a relationship worth giving up immediately. If you can work on some communication skills and give him a chance to learn some new information, then you'll have a better idea if he is the person you want to father your children.